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Thread: asked to leave

  1. #1
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    I was OCing at Partridge Creek Mall for about 30 minutes when 2 unarmed security guards came up to me and asked me to leave as the mall is private property and firearms are not allowed. There are no signs and it's an open air mall.I left of course after having a nice chat about open carry and my doubts about their rules. It seems like unless it's a place where you need a membership card,asking open carriers to leave is a form of discrimination. It is probably a rule set by lower management.I'm gonna try to find their main headquarters. If anyone has any answers or has carried there or at Lakeside Mall let me know.

    gekgun@yahoo.com

  2. #2
    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    Private property rights trump carry rights.

    The owners of the property can set the rules of conduct as they see fit and have every right to ask a person who is acting outside of those rules to leave.

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. Thomas Paine

  3. #3
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    thekunk47 wrote:
    I was OCing at Partridge Creek Mall for about 30 minutes when 2 unarmed security guards came up to me and asked me to leave as the mall is private property and firearms are not allowed. There are no signs and it's an open air mall.I left of course after having a nice chat about open carry and my doubts about their rules. It seems like unless it's a place where you need a membership card,asking open carriers to leave is a form of discrimination. It is probably a rule set by lower management.I'm gonna try to find their main headquarters. If anyone has any answers or has carried there or at Lakeside Mall let me know.

    gekgun@yahoo.com
    Thekunk,malls arereally no different than your house, my house or your neighbors house, all are private property.You, I or your neighborcan legally askan individual, due to carrying a firearm,to leave the premises without posting signs at the door(s). There is no discrimination coming into play here.

    I'm not sure if I'd press this issue, they (the malls) can legally enforce their firearm prohibitions beyond that of the building itself. They can actually request you leave the property all together (including parking lot), not just the building.

    All I can say at this point is that a person who chooses to OC at a mall that is not posted, do so until asked to leave. At that time leave ASAP and don't mention anything about lack of signs. Again, remember, private property owners are not required by law in Michigan to have signs posted in order for them to ask you to leave. The only exception to this is entertainment facilities. See other thread for this.

  4. #4
    Regular Member Outdoorsman's Avatar
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    As far as I can see, they don't have a specific rule against firearms. The do make provisions to be able to include just about anything/anyone they see fit to ban. http://www.shoppartridgecreek.com/in...FAQ.html#27102

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    .
    Last edited by T Vance; 09-20-2010 at 09:53 PM.

  6. #6
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    I think we should send a letter to all the businesses there informing them of the situation and that we will not be shopping there in the future. Also that people there are less safe without us.They have everyone beliebing gunfree zones are safe when in fact it's the exact opposite.

  7. #7
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    T Vance wrote:
    I though someone said that even if signs are posted, you could still carry into an establishment, but the second managment asks you to leave you need to. Am I ccorrect?

    Hell with my incident, there were NO signs on the doors (or near them) I entered or exited at the Target in Jackson (which is part of the Jackson Crossing Mall, and they follow mall rules pertaining to firearms). Also, I was never personally asked, or told by anybody that worked for Target or the mall to leave. I was just detained by police outside of the mall as I was leaving, and the police told me the mall poicy of "No Firearms" and that I can't return there with a firearm. I also thought someone said that technically I could return to that mall and carry because management for the mall needs to ask me to leave and not come back with a firearm. Am I correct here too?
    IMO, if in fact there were no signs, then initially, it would be impossible for you to be put on notice until you were confronted by security/management. It's always been my understanding that, in Michigan, the signs carry no weight. However, I really can't question a "no firearms" sign, of any collor, size, or letters,posted at an entrance either.

    If the police told you you were not allowed back to the mall while carrying a firearm, at that time, you were legally put on notice. Violating this notice can mean trespass. More than likely, securityrequested the LEO(s) to inform you of this notice. Actually, IIRC, LE must be requested to do this (inform of notice) by security/management/agent for it to be legit. I would not return to that mall while carrying, it will almost guarantee a trespass charge.

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    .
    Last edited by T Vance; 09-20-2010 at 09:53 PM.

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    Regular Member Generaldet's Avatar
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    I have Oc'd at Partridge Creek and Lakeside no problems at either. Security saw me at Lakeside and never said anything and I know they don't have signs posted regarding firearms.

    If you have concerns or would like to question the ruling. I would contact the mall owners and have them clarify their policy. I would not just take some $8/hr security guards word for it.

  10. #10
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    Security at Partridge Creek stopped me as soon as they saw me.You could probably carry there all day without them noticing but if they see the firearm they'll stop you.They were nice enough...they just asked me to either leave or put the firearm in the car.

  11. #11
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    Generaldet wrote:
    If you have concerns or would like to question the ruling. I would contact the mall owners and have them clarify their policy. I would not just take some $8/hr security guards word for it.
    ^^^ Exactly what he says ^^^

  12. #12
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    T Vance wrote:
    Yeah, I have been back to that mall, but I DO NOT CARRY THERE just because the police have told me not to. Didn't want to risk a trespass charge. Speaking of which, does anyone know what penalty come with trespassing? Misdameanor/Felony? Probation? Fines? Etc?
    750.552 Trespass upon lands or premises of another; violation; penalty.
    Sec. 552.

    (1) A person shall not do any of the following:

    (a) Enter the lands or premises of another without lawful authority after having been forbidden so to do by the owner or occupant or the agent of the owner or occupant.

    (b) Remain without lawful authority on the land or premises of another after being notified to depart by the owner or occupant or the agent of the owner or occupant.

    (c) Enter or remain without lawful authority on fenced or posted farm property of another person without the consent of the owner or his or her lessee or agent. A request to leave the premises is not a necessary element for a violation of this subdivision. This subdivision does not apply to a person who is in the process of attempting, by the most direct route, to contact the owner or his or her lessee or agent to request consent.

    (2) A person who violates subsection (1) is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment in the county jail for not more than 30 days or by a fine of not more than $250.00, or both.




    History: Add. 1951, Act 102, Imd. Eff. May 31, 1951 ;-- Am. 2007, Act 167, Eff. Mar. 20, 2008

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