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Thread: Open Carry Legal or double standard

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    It seems to me that it is either legal or there is a horrible double standard. How many times have you seen an 85 year-old "off-duty" security guard in Alabama roaming through Wal Mart or some other store shopping while carrying his six-shooter in the open and noone says a word. If it were illegal, you would think that a cop would eventually run across the situation and arrest him.

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    I would imagine that you could get yourself a t-shirt with "Security" printed on it, maybe have some sort of badge made up to clip on your belt, and I doubt anyone would give you the slightest bit of trouble.

    As I said in another post, I found it really interesting when I was participating in a flea market last month that before hand they announced that there would be armed security about so "...if you see someone with a gun on their side, don't panic it's just our security people."

    Later, I did see the security personnel in question. I would say about 5'8", balding, about 250lbs easy, carrying what appeared to be a Ruger P-series in an open "Uncle Mike's" type nylon holster with no retention at all, and he kept rubbing his finger over the hammer. Maybe to make sure it was still there? No way he could see it over his belly. Anyways, nobody was disturbed in the slightest by this open carrier.

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    HAhah... yeah some security guards are iffy.

    I personally wouldn't wear a badge or SECURITY shirt, as it's, well, kind of pointless. I've yet to be hassled for OC, but most people think I'm a cop or in the military anyways.

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    There is a Attorney General Opinion on file in Alabama that pretty much allows anyone who can legally own a Firearmto open carry the Firearm without any further trouble, provided; that the person is on foot.

    The opinion number is 2007-054, the opinion concerns Animal Control Officers.

    The opinion says in Question Five, that Animal Control Officers amy carry a sideram if they follow the same rules as any other citizen, namely; in plain view.

    The opinion says that, pursuant to Alabama Code 1975 13A-11-73, in order to carry a sidearm in amotor vehicle or concealed, one needs a License.

    The same opinion says... 'as any other Citizen... [Security Guard]', so Security Guards generally have no more authority than a Citizen,yet they may carry unconcelaed unlicensed pistols. If Security Guards and Citizens are in essence the same, then, it is lawful to carry a sidearm as long as you follow the Law under 13A-11-73.

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    Yes, that is exactly my point. You never hear about police harrassing Security Guards, yet they will harrass a person in plain clothes. I don't understand the logic.

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    Logic?
    You expect logic and gun law to co-exist?

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    It is called private property rights. A business can ban customers from having a gun in the store, yet allow a security guard to carry. I worked in a jewlery store and concealed carried at workbecause the owner allowed me to carry, but I had to leave the gun in the store when I went to lunch because I refused to get a CCW.

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    No I think you didn't understand the original message. I'm talking about a security guard, off duty walking around in uniform at Wal Mart shopping on his way home, who is not a security guard for Wal Mart. Basically he just got off his shift at the local used car lot and his picking up a six pack on the way home.

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    I walked into Madison County Courthouse to drop my license application at the sheriff's office. There were three, count them, three guards, 2 male and 1 female, operating the metal detectors. All of them armed and all of them senior citizens. Now, I'm not too far from that stage myself, but this was ridiculous. Why? This was the county courthouse! The Sheriff's department andother county officials offices operate from there. I suppose the three guards I saw were Sheriff's deputies, maybe part-time, I didn't ask but it sure doesn't seem like they were much of an imposing site to actually stop someone bent upon entering the courthouse with mayhem in mind.

    But, the public has no problem with armed security even if the people are senior citizens, but an armed citizen sends them intoa panic. Go figure!
    Check out my home page @ www.alabamaopencarry.com and Carry On!

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    AL Ranger wrote:
    I walked into Madison County Courthouse to drop my license application at the sheriff's office. There were three, count them, three guards, 2 male and 1 female, operating the metal detectors. All of them armed and all of them senior citizens. Now, I'm not too far from that stage myself, but this was ridiculous. Why? This was the county courthouse! The Sheriff's department andother county officials offices operate from there. I suppose the three guards I saw were Sheriff's deputies, maybe part-time, I didn't ask but it sure doesn't seem like they were much of an imposing site to actually stop someone bent upon entering the courthouse with mayhem in mind.

    But, the public has no problem with armed security even if the people are senior citizens, but an armed citizen sends them intoa panic. Go figure!
    That's Madison County. They have enough trouble trying to get the sheriff there to wrap his head around the idea that OC is permitted. Consider also -- if those three are retired law-enforcement they have a special privilege from the sheriff. And they may well be deputized.
    It takes a village to raise an idiot.

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    Dragonflydf wrote:
    It is called private property rights. A business can ban customers from having a gun in the store, yet allow a security guard to carry. I worked in a jewlery store and concealed carried at workbecause the owner allowed me to carry, but I had to leave the gun in the store when I went to lunch because I refused to get a CCW.
    You mean the Constitution of Alabama of 1901 section 26 doesn't apply? Or that Title 41 doesn't authorize the regulation of firearms in a public space?
    It takes a village to raise an idiot.

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    Kirbinator wrote:
    Dragonflydf wrote:
    It is called private property rights. A business can ban customers from having a gun in the store, yet allow a security guard to carry. I worked in a jewlery store and concealed carried at workbecause the owner allowed me to carry, but I had to leave the gun in the store when I went to lunch because I refused to get a CCW.
    You mean the Constitution of Alabama of 1901 section 26 doesn't apply? Or that Title 41 doesn't authorize the regulation of firearms in a public space?
    If you owned a store, how would you react to someone standing in your store opining for something you detested?

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    eye95 wrote:
    If you owned a store, how would you react to someone standing in your store opining for something you detested?
    I'd probably either ask him to wander off or entertain him for as long as it takes for him to purchase something.

    But again, this doesn't really apply to a public building, which is by nature owned by the State of Alabama and is public property.
    It takes a village to raise an idiot.

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    Kirbinator wrote:
    eye95 wrote:
    If you owned a store, how would you react to someone standing in your store opining for something you detested?
    I'd probably either ask him to wander off or entertain him for as long as it takes for him to purchase something.

    But again, this doesn't really apply to a public building, which is by nature owned by the State of Alabama and is public property.
    The post to which you were replying was discussing a privately-owned store. They should have the right to make any rules regarding firearms on their premises, and we should have the right to patronize them or not based on those rules.

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    I see Wackenhut security guards at the Birmingham Harbert Center food court on occasion and they are armed with some type of revolver. They do have very nice uniforms and lookneater than many of the local cops. They don't provide security for the food court but just seem to be getting lunch. No one seems to notice too much or care. I worked part time as a security guardin manyyears ago and the uniform does seem to make a lot of difference in some peoples minds, even law enforcement. I guess it is just what people have been conditioned to

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    eaglesouth wrote:
    I see Wackenhut security guards at the Birmingham Harbert Center food court on occasion and they are armed with some type of revolver. They do have very nice uniforms and lookneater than many of the local cops. They don't provide security for the food court but just seem to be getting lunch. No one seems to notice too much or care. I worked part time as a security guardin manyyears ago and the uniform does seem to make a lot of difference in some peoples minds, even law enforcement. I guess it is just what people have been conditioned to
    Exactly. Most people have never seen a plain clothes civilian carrying a weapon. That's what freaks people out. They don't know the law, don't know your rights, and jump to conclusions. Put a badge near that weapon, or a uniform, and suddenly you are lulled into a feeling a familiarity. "Of course that 90 year old man has a gun. He's wearing a uniform."

    The general population has never considered open carry and just has no context with which to interpret what they are seeing. It's gonna draw attention.
    "The sole object and only legitimate end of government is to protect the citizen in the enjoyment of life, liberty, and property, and when the government assumes other functions, it is usurpation and oppression."
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    Viking01 wrote:
    It seems to me that it is either legal or there is a horrible double standard.* How many times have you seen an 85 year-old "off-duty" security guard in Alabama roaming through Wal Mart or some other store shopping while carrying his six-shooter in the open and noone says a word. If it were illegal, you would think that a cop would eventually run across the situation and arrest him.
    I a 26yr old armed security guard, no military training, not apart of any law enforcement this is just the job I have been with for a couple of years and I go to Walmart or gas station etc after work all the time still packing my XDM not a 6 shooter LOL and yes I've never had a problem from anyone its only when I'm out of uniform and I OC ( I dont carry my xdm when not in uniform ill carry the glock 27 or my 1911) is when I get stopped and qsked about my weapon and I never tell people or police my job if asked.
    Once out of my security uniform I'm like everyone else and I open carry

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    solidsnake.45 wrote
    Once out of my security uniform I'm like everyone else and I open carry
    Actually, even in your security uniform you are "like everyone else..." at least according to the Code of Alabama. There's no provision in the Code providing any greater rights to uniformed private security then are addressed to any other private citizen.

    So basically, even "in uniform," if you get into a car with your weapon and don't have CC license, you are breaking Alabama law.
    "The sole object and only legitimate end of government is to protect the citizen in the enjoyment of life, liberty, and property, and when the government assumes other functions, it is usurpation and oppression."
    - Alabama Constitution

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    Yeah, all the uniform does is provide false comfort to uninformed citizens that, somehow, this person is more deserving and qualified to openly carry a firearm--which is why, I suspect, that some OCers want to wear badges (a foolish act) when they carry.

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    I didn't. Mean to imply that I had special privages because I wear a baadge and uniform for my job I have read the mention code about private security I'm just saying I see the double standard personally and the uniform is not only unconfortable lol but is a false sence of safty and quillifacation.

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    solidsnake.45 wrote:
    I didn't. Mean to imply that I had special privages because I wear a baadge and uniform for my job I have read the mention code about private security I'm just saying I see the double standard personally and the uniform is not only unconfortable lol but is a false sence of safty and quillifacation.
    I'm not saying you meant to imply anything... it's just part of the problem. That uniform changes the thinking of both the wearer and the observer.

    Admit it... you probably don't feel as conspicuous OCing in public in uniform as you do in civvies? Do you?

    Any type of "uniform" gives observers the impression that, somehow, you're having a weapon on your belt is acceptable. That guy over there in shorts and a t-shirt however...
    "The sole object and only legitimate end of government is to protect the citizen in the enjoyment of life, liberty, and property, and when the government assumes other functions, it is usurpation and oppression."
    - Alabama Constitution

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    jaiotu wrote:
    solidsnake.45 wrote:
    I didn't. Mean to imply that I had special privages because I wear a baadge and uniform for my job I have read the mention code about private security I'm just saying I see the double standard personally and the uniform is not only unconfortable lol but is a false sence of safty and quillifacation.
    I'm not saying you meant to imply anything... it's just part of the problem. That uniform changes the thinking of both the wearer and the observer.

    Admit it... you probably don't feel as conspicuous OCing in public in uniform as you do in civvies? Do you?

    Any type of "uniform" gives observers the impression that, somehow, you're having a weapon on your belt is acceptable. That guy over there in shorts and a t-shirt however...
    True ..I dont feel like ill be harrassed when in uniform for carring a weapon because I know that a lot of people are not aware of the rights they have. .. I have noticed I get way more attention and looks while in uniform than I get with jeans and a T-shirt,

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    Just thought of a situation I was in about 3month ago I stopped in a fast food joint after work (still in uniform) and two other shoppers fussing over who was next in line and a manager pointed tward me and asked for me assistance ,I said quick and clear for all inside I am not a cop if you need them call all I can do is bare witness to this ..and that is what they did and that prompted both hot headed line fighters to leave
    And I left afterwards because they refused to take my order. ...I was sure how I should handled it I was just looking out to protect my job by not getting involved in that

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    Well I think you handled that well. The line fighters should have been forced to the end of the line. That you were denied service is the right of the fast food joint but I think it was chickenshyt of the ffj where you were concerned. I might go so far as to boycott all of their stores until I saw flying pigs or Hell was frozen over. Just my .02 worth.

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    At my old job sometimes I had to check the refuse cans and overall tidyness of the beach area. As that was the scene of a prior assault and strong arm robbery there were times I didn't want to go by myself. There for quite awhile we took a partner just for our own security.

    A few times I would pick up my carry piece (CC) and go check the beach. I never had any trouble and only ran into some drunks a couple times. Of course I was extra vigilant as drunks are unpredictable. As soon as the beach run was finished I returned my piece to my vehicle and continued on with my day.

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