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Thread: Youth and 100% Disabled Veteran Firearm Deer Hunting Days

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    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    I was recently browsing the 2009 Michigan Hunting and Trapping Guide and found the following on Page 8:

    Youth and 100% Disabled Veteran Firearm Deer Hunting Days
    There will be a youth and 100% disabled veteran firearm deer season Sept. 26-27, 2009, on all lands in Michigan. A youth 10-16 years of age with a combination license or a youth 12-16 years of age with a firearm license or a qualified veteran with disabilities may take an antlered or antlerless deer during this special two-day season. An antlerless license or a Deer Management Assistance permit, if issued for the area/land upon which hunting, is valid for only antlerless deer. Archery and junior archery deer licenses are not valid for this hunt. The bag limit for this season is one deer. A firearm or combination license is valid for any deer in this season.

    Youths 10 and 11 years of age are restricted to archery-only hunting. Youths 12 and 13 may hunt with a firearm on private land only, including lands enrolled in the Commercial Forest program. The youth must be accompanied by an adult at least 18 years of age or older. An adult accompanying a youth firearm deer hunter cannot possess or carry a firearm, crossbow or bow and arrow and does not need a deer hunting license. Hunters may not use bait during this season. All hunters are required to wear hunter orange.

    This appears not to have the CPL and/or Personal Protection Exception Clause that is found elsewhere in the Hunting Guide for other hunting seasons (I.E. - Archery Season). So, I asked the following question on the Ask DNR Site:

    Can I carry a pistol openly (CPL or not) or concealed (with CPL) while afield with my youth during the "Youth and 100% Disabled Veteran Firearm Deer Hunting Days" if the sole purpose is for Personal Protection? The language in the 2009 Hunting Guide seems to indicate "No" on Page 8, whereas there are CPL-Personal Protection exceptions listed for other seasons where firearms are not allowed.

    I have received the following email in response:

    Your question has been received. You should expect a response from us
    within 10 business days.

    Question Reference #090902-000051
    ---------------------------------------------------------------
    Summary: Can I carry a pistol openly (CPL or not) or
    concealed (with CPL) while afield...
    Select a Topic: Hunting
    Sub-Topic: Deer
    Contact Information: xxx
    Date Created: 09/02/2009 08:53 PM
    Last Updated: 09/02/2009 08:53 PM
    Status: Unresolved
    Michigan Resident?: Yes


    Discussion Thread
    ---------------------------------------------------------------
    Customer (PDinDetroit) - 09/02/2009 08:53 PM
    Can I carry a pistol openly (CPL or not) or concealed (with CPL) while afield with my youth during the "Youth and 100% Disabled Veteran Firearm Deer Hunting Days" if the sole purpose is for Personal Protection? The language in the 2009 Hunting Guide seems to indicate "No" on Page 8, whereas there are CPL-Personal Protection exceptions listed for other seasons where firearms are not allowed.



    Rights are like muscles. You must EXERCISE THEM to keep them from becoming atrophied.

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    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    Good catch!

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    Regular Member Yooper's Avatar
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    My guess would be "yes you can"....Carry WITH a CPL that is. It's my understanding that the law that was passed a few years back basically removed any powers from the DNR to restrict when/where a CPL holder can carry his gun.


    BTW, Those hunting laws drive me crazy. If you can pass a hunters safety course, you should be able to hunt during any season with any equipment legal for anyone else. I don't mind if you have to have an 18+ adult tag along until they're 12,13,14 or somewhere in there....but why can they hunt on CF land but public land? Makes absolutely no sense to me.
    Rand Paul 2016

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    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Yooper wrote:
    My guess would be "yes you can"....Carry WITH a CPL that is. It's my understanding that the law that was passed a few years back basically removed any powers from the DNR to restrict when/where a CPL holder can carry his gun.


    BTW, Those hunting laws drive me crazy. If you can pass a hunters safety course, you should be able to hunt during any season with any equipment legal for anyone else. I don't mind if you have to have an 18+ adult tag along until they're 12,13,14 or somewhere in there....but why can they hunt on CF land but public land? Makes absolutely no sense to me.
    I would guess the same as well, but thought that guessing would be the same as ASSUMING here (speaking for me only). I agree that the hunting laws are a little strange, although for some of them I understand the "why" (whether I agree with them or not).

    I will be taking my daughter and her boyfriend on their first Deer Hunt as Apprentice Hunters during the Youth Hunt Weekend (Sept 26/27). I took them out to the range again today to ensure proper safety rules and shooting techniques are being followed (which they are doing very well). One of the possible spots is in an area frequented by bear and want to make sure I have Protection available if needed (and any other lawful protection purposes).
    Rights are like muscles. You must EXERCISE THEM to keep them from becoming atrophied.

  5. #5
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Response Received Today. Not sure I like it though...

    Discussion Thread
    ---------------------------------------------------------------
    Response (Terry Cook) - 09/08/2009 04:26 PM
    A CPL allows you to carry a pistol, concealed or otherwise, during any season as long as there is no attempt to take game with the pistol and it is being carried in compliance with the terms specified on the CPL. It is not lawful for the adult supervising the youth during this hunt to open carry a pistol without a CPL.

    Michigan DNR
    Law Enforcement Division


    I am covered since I have a CPL, but do not like them restricting non-CPL Holders during this hunt.

    Any input about a possible response is welcome!
    Rights are like muscles. You must EXERCISE THEM to keep them from becoming atrophied.

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    The wording that appears in the hunting guide is taken from the Wildlife Conservation Order which I attached below. Violations are misdemeanors. Wildlife Conservation Orders are issued by the Natural Resources Commission which overseas the Department of Natural Resources. If you have an issue with the order, it must be taken up with them rather than the DNR, the DNR cannot change the order. The NRC meets monthly and you write the commissioners or appear in person.

    NRC:

    http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7...862---,00.html

    [size=3.101e Youth and 100 percent disabled veteran firearm deer hunting days, season established, limits defined, adult requirements, hunting hours.][size=] [size=Sec 3.101e (1)The youth and 100 percent disabled veteran firearm deer hunting days shall be a 2-day hunt starting the fourth Saturday in September.
    ][size=(b) A parent or legal guardian shall not allow a youth hunter to go afield to hunt deer unless the youth hunter is accompanied by an adult at least 18 years of age or older. Subject to section 43510, subsections (2) and (3), of Part 435, as amended, hunting and fishing licensing,][size=MCL][size= 324.43510, an adult accompanying a youth firearm deer hunter shall not possess or carry a firearm, a crossbow, or bow and arrow, except a veteran with 100 percent disability may possess a firearm, crossbow, or bow and arrow if hunting under the authority of section 3.101e(]2)(b).



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    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    PDinDetroit wrote:
    Response Received Today.* Not sure I like it though...

    Discussion Thread
    ---------------------------------------------------------------
    Response (Terry Cook) - 09/08/2009 04:26 PM
    A CPL allows you to carry a pistol, concealed or otherwise, during any season as long as there is no attempt to take game with the pistol and it is being carried in compliance with the terms specified on the CPL.* It is not lawful for the adult supervising the youth during this hunt to open carry a pistol without a CPL.

    Michigan DNR
    Law Enforcement Division


    I am covered since I have a CPL, but do not like them restricting non-CPL Holders during this hunt.*

    Any input about a possible response is welcome!
    The problem is that, since you are part of a group, your "party" is "attempting to take game"... I understand the concern they may have, even if I don't agree.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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    Thanks, PDinDetroit for emailing the DNR on this. Those who have a CPL are apparently good to go but the hunting guide still contradicts it's self as on page 28 it states that "The rules below may not apply to a person having a concealed pistol license..." "While in the field, hand guns must be carried in plain view. Carrying a handgun in a holster in plain view is permitted."springerdave.

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    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    springerdave wrote:
    Thanks, PDinDetroit for emailing the DNR on this. Those who have a CPL are apparently good to go but the hunting guide still contradicts it's self as on page 28 it states that "The rules below may not apply to a person having a concealed pistol license..." "While in the field, hand guns must be carried in plain view. Carrying a handgun in a holster in plain view is permitted."springerdave.
    I believe that they should have a simple statement in the Hunting/Trapping Guide for next year:

    A CPL allows you to carry a pistol, concealed or otherwise, during any season as long as there is no attempt to take game with the pistol and it is being carried in compliance with the terms specified on the CPL.
    As for those without CPL's, it appears that they are SOL for the time being as the DNR appears to limit them from carrying afield during this special hunt (they appear to be allowed at other times).

    I will have to do some more research, formulate statements I think should be there, and then contact the appropriate groups.
    Rights are like muscles. You must EXERCISE THEM to keep them from becoming atrophied.

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