FatboyCykes
Regular Member
imported post
This actually happened on 07/18/09. I was shopping at the local dollar strore OCin'. Was approached by two Warren LEO's. Here is their report...
Several things left out and/or added in here. When approached and asked to step aside, I said "no thanks". I was ordered into the isle way where I proceeded to ask if I was under arrest. No. Am I being detained? No. Then I'm free to go? As I turned to walk away. No, stay here. Then I'm being detained? Yea, I guess you are. Do you have a CCW? No, but I have a CPL. Why didn't you disclose? My gun was removed, as was my wallet against my protests that I didn't consent to an illegal search let alone a seizure. Obviously my protests were ignored.
When asked why I didn't disclose, was my first mistake I believe. I stated I hadn't had time to disclose, which I didn't, as it was the first thing out of her mouth after she confirmed I was being detained. She told me I was to disclose, I told her again that I didn't have time before she asked me immediately after she admitted I was being detained. Some of you may remember the thread I posted about this very subject. It wasn't until I had been escorted out and the adrenaline slowed down that it struck me that I didn't believe I was required to disclose since I wasn't concealing, we I wasn't. However, I think I was too late in informing the officers of this. Had I had the right answer when they asked the first time, I believe that I wouldn't have received a citation, oh well.
Up until this point, wrong as the officers may have been, they had been fairly professional, not really saying much other than the disclosure thing. Of course, like a schmuck, I didn't have my recorder on me.(truly my first mistake). Once this prick showed up and I don't hesitate to call him that, things got a bit more interesting.
Yes, I had been placed in the back of the squad car, but I was pretty confident at this point that they had nothing on me that could stick. This nutsack opens the door and immediately starts yelling at me about getting a CPL and not concealing. I politely informed him that he was spitting on me, to please stop and that the CPL made open carrying much easier. He cussed and slammed the door. At this point I remembered my cell phone and opened it up and started recording with it. Numerous times while in the back(not handcuffed) officer Kerr was in and out of the car, I requested the names and badge numbers and was told I'd get them at the end. Officer penis face sees the phone and opens the door and makes a swipe at the phone, I pulled it away and told him to leave it alone. He told me no phone calls and I informed him I wasn't calling, but recording, he made a second successful grab at the phone, closed it(flip phone) effectively ending the recording. This time lecturing me about having to disclose my CPL immediately, it was during this conversation that I made some sort of reference to the 2nd amendment being all I needed to OC in this particular store.
Long story short, my firearm was returned to me unloaded of course. I was given the first two officers information while the d-bag sped off almost hitting me on his way out, refusing to give me his information.
Returned to the store and gathered my things that were in my hands at the time of the stop. Spoke with several employees, educated them a bit. They let me know that it was a customer who was leaving that called, not the store and welcomed me to keep shopping there.
Spoke with some lawyers, got some quotes and consulted with others wiser and more knowledgeable about my options.
FOIA'd, contacted the MSP to file a complaint, contacted the FBI filed a complaint.
Decided, with the incident report in hand, that I had enough facts and evidence that I would attempt to defend myself w/o representation, that and I couldn't really afford or swallow that kind of price tag. I knew with a lawyer it would be dismissed, but why the heck should I have to fork over 3-500 dollars every time an officer who doesn't know the law writes a bad citation? Principle I guess....
Court was this morning at 10AM. I've been working on my "case" for quite a few weeks gathering up as much info and particularly cite information as I could. Sat in the courtroom for nearly 2 hours before I heard my name called.
Good morning Your Honor.
Case dismissed, you're free to go.
Thank you your honor.
I had been stressing this for weeks! I knew my case was solid, but you know how things can go, stressssssssssssssssssss! All for that. My 4 seconds of fame
I can't really bring myself to complain for some reason
Mike
This actually happened on 07/18/09. I was shopping at the local dollar strore OCin'. Was approached by two Warren LEO's. Here is their report...
On 7/18/2009 at approximately 1101 hours, D50(PO's Stellman 174 & Kerr 65) responded to a Gun run at 2295 E. 10 Mile Road (Dollar Tree).
Upon arrival officers spoke to the listed A***** J**** Clark DOB: **/**/****. Clark stated he observed a 2/m approximately 30 years old, wearing a black shirt and hat enter the Dollar Tree store with an exposed gun in a holster on the left side of his hip.
Officers entered the Dollar Tree store and observed a w/m with a black T-shirt wearing a hat with an exposed gun on his left hip standing near the center isle on the north end of the store. The w/m later identified as Michael B****** T******* DOB: **/**/****. Officer Kerr approached T******* from the isle 1 east of where T******* was standing. Officer Stellman approached T******* from the same isle of where he was standing from the south. Officer Kerr made first contact with T******* and asked him to step to the end of the isle away from all other civilians in the store. Officer Stellman grabbed the left arm of T******* and advised him he was taking his gun temporarily while we investigated further. Officer Stellman secured T*******'s weapon. T******* was patted down for weapons by Officer Kerr. T******* did not disclose he was a CCW license holder. Officer Kerr asked T******* if he has a valid CCW license. T******* stated he does have a valid CCW. Officer Kerr asked T******* where his identification and CCW permit was located on his person. T******* stated his identification and CCW permit were in his wallet in his left back pocket. PO Kerr removed the wallet from T*******'s back pocket and retrieved his identification and CCW license. Officers escorted T******* out of the Dollar Tree store. T******* was placed in the back of D50's marked patrol car during investigation.
Several things left out and/or added in here. When approached and asked to step aside, I said "no thanks". I was ordered into the isle way where I proceeded to ask if I was under arrest. No. Am I being detained? No. Then I'm free to go? As I turned to walk away. No, stay here. Then I'm being detained? Yea, I guess you are. Do you have a CCW? No, but I have a CPL. Why didn't you disclose? My gun was removed, as was my wallet against my protests that I didn't consent to an illegal search let alone a seizure. Obviously my protests were ignored.
When asked why I didn't disclose, was my first mistake I believe. I stated I hadn't had time to disclose, which I didn't, as it was the first thing out of her mouth after she confirmed I was being detained. She told me I was to disclose, I told her again that I didn't have time before she asked me immediately after she admitted I was being detained. Some of you may remember the thread I posted about this very subject. It wasn't until I had been escorted out and the adrenaline slowed down that it struck me that I didn't believe I was required to disclose since I wasn't concealing, we I wasn't. However, I think I was too late in informing the officers of this. Had I had the right answer when they asked the first time, I believe that I wouldn't have received a citation, oh well.
PO Toward 186 arrived on scene. PO Toward questioned T******* as to why he did not reveal he has a valid CCW license. T******* was uncooperative with PO Toward stating he had the constitutional right to open carry his weapon. PO Toward advised him of the CCW law of disclosing the CCW license to an officer immediately upon contact.
Up until this point, wrong as the officers may have been, they had been fairly professional, not really saying much other than the disclosure thing. Of course, like a schmuck, I didn't have my recorder on me.(truly my first mistake). Once this prick showed up and I don't hesitate to call him that, things got a bit more interesting.
Yes, I had been placed in the back of the squad car, but I was pretty confident at this point that they had nothing on me that could stick. This nutsack opens the door and immediately starts yelling at me about getting a CPL and not concealing. I politely informed him that he was spitting on me, to please stop and that the CPL made open carrying much easier. He cussed and slammed the door. At this point I remembered my cell phone and opened it up and started recording with it. Numerous times while in the back(not handcuffed) officer Kerr was in and out of the car, I requested the names and badge numbers and was told I'd get them at the end. Officer penis face sees the phone and opens the door and makes a swipe at the phone, I pulled it away and told him to leave it alone. He told me no phone calls and I informed him I wasn't calling, but recording, he made a second successful grab at the phone, closed it(flip phone) effectively ending the recording. This time lecturing me about having to disclose my CPL immediately, it was during this conversation that I made some sort of reference to the 2nd amendment being all I needed to OC in this particular store.
T******* was ran thru LEIN/SOS and returned clear. The gun located on Thompson was also ran thru LEIN/SOS and returned clear to T*******. The gun is a 9mm Springfield Armory, Model XD-9, 10 shot, black in color.
T******* was issued a citation#******* for failure to notify officer upon catace of CCW license.
Officer Stellman returned the gun to T*******. T******* was released at the scene without further incident.
Long story short, my firearm was returned to me unloaded of course. I was given the first two officers information while the d-bag sped off almost hitting me on his way out, refusing to give me his information.
Returned to the store and gathered my things that were in my hands at the time of the stop. Spoke with several employees, educated them a bit. They let me know that it was a customer who was leaving that called, not the store and welcomed me to keep shopping there.
Spoke with some lawyers, got some quotes and consulted with others wiser and more knowledgeable about my options.
FOIA'd, contacted the MSP to file a complaint, contacted the FBI filed a complaint.
Decided, with the incident report in hand, that I had enough facts and evidence that I would attempt to defend myself w/o representation, that and I couldn't really afford or swallow that kind of price tag. I knew with a lawyer it would be dismissed, but why the heck should I have to fork over 3-500 dollars every time an officer who doesn't know the law writes a bad citation? Principle I guess....
Court was this morning at 10AM. I've been working on my "case" for quite a few weeks gathering up as much info and particularly cite information as I could. Sat in the courtroom for nearly 2 hours before I heard my name called.
Good morning Your Honor.
Case dismissed, you're free to go.
Thank you your honor.
I had been stressing this for weeks! I knew my case was solid, but you know how things can go, stressssssssssssssssssss! All for that. My 4 seconds of fame
I can't really bring myself to complain for some reason
Mike