Results 1 to 13 of 13

Thread: I'm thinking of buying property for a personal safety academy

  1. #1
    Accomplished Advocate user's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Northern Piedmont of Virginia
    Posts
    2,373

    Post imported post

    The property is about five acres with four buildings. One of them would be perfect for an eleven thousand square foot indoor pistol range. I've got a gunsmith who wants to lease part of the space on the second floor over the pistol range.

    One of the other buildings is forty-eight thousand square feet in three stories, and is already pretty well laid out for classrooms, conference and lecture halls, and overnight lodging.

    Here are the problems. I'll need half a million dollars within two months to get started, and a little over two million over the next year or so to finish up renovation and construction. Three of the four buildings are on land that is subject to a lease which has been terminated by the landlord, but the lessees are threatening litigation.

    The litigation doesn't bother me much, but I haven't done anything about registration of securities so as to make potential investors stockholders/members/partners - can't even issue promissory notes without registration.

    I see this being a major facility for people with training credentials to be able to conduct courses and seminars. The sort of place where nice folks who know nothing about self defense could be treated respectfully and professionally and taught whatever they need to know about home security, martial arts, firearms, etc. I also see it as a place where federal agencies and law enforcement agencies could conduct training with contractors. My focus is on providing the facilities and ensuring the overall character be sufficiently professional that any 9 to 5 office worker from Arlington, Alexandria, or Fairfax could go, not knowing anything, and not feel like she's in some good'ol boy's garage, that the military/tactical/police orientation is too intimidating, or that her feelings about defense of self and others are in any way misplaced. No one should be made to feel stupid, just because they're ignorant, and no one is too disabled to learn something about self defense.

    Any suggestions?
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

  2. #2
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    13,580

    Post imported post

    Have you done a feasibility survey and how does the zoning look?

  3. #3
    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    www.ProactiveShooters.com, Richmond, Va., , USA
    Posts
    4,671

    Post imported post

    I just returned today from a weeklong NRA conference on buildingshooting ranges.

    I suggest that you look into the next conference before you consider any other step.
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
    Sabre Red Pepper Spray Instructor
    Glock Certified Armorer
    Instructor Bio - http://proactiveshooters.com/about-us/

  4. #4
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Chesterfield VA
    Posts
    10,682

    Post imported post

    Amen to the comments by Peter Nap and ProShooter.

    I'd love to see you pull off the project, but it is not one you can go from thought to grand opening without spending a lot of time with various and sundry county and state officials.

    How far away is your site from Silver Eagle? You might want to set up an informational interview with them, if they are willing, to learn what they had to go through. Also consider contacting Shooter's Paradise (may have the name wrong) in Woodbridge to learn all the hoops they encountered in reopening after their temporary hiatus caused by a backstop fire. (They have reopened, haven't they?)

    stay safe.

    skidmark


    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  5. #5
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Islamabad, Pakistan
    Posts
    621

    Post imported post

    skidmark wrote:
    Amen to the comments by Peter Nap and ProShooter.

    I'd love to see you pull off the project, but it is not one you can go from thought to grand opening without spending a lot of time with various and sundry county and state officials.

    How far away is your site from Silver Eagle? You might want to set up an informational interview with them, if they are willing, to learn what they had to go through. Also consider contacting Shooter's Paradise (may have the name wrong) in Woodbridge to learn all the hoops they encountered in reopening after their temporary hiatus caused by a backstop fire. (They have reopened, haven't they?)

    stay safe.

    skidmark

    Shooter's Paradise is out of business. There were plans for a new unrelated range to go into the same shopping mall but that has been on hold. Scuttlebutt has it that the proprietor is going through a divorce. No progress on the new range at all.

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Alexandria, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    164

    Post imported post

    Is Shooter's Paradise the new range that was supposed to be built in Woodbridge? I heard about some new range being built in Woodbridge at a VCDL meeting a while ago..

  7. #7
    Accomplished Advocate user's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Northern Piedmont of Virginia
    Posts
    2,373

    Post imported post

    I don't foresee any problems whatsoever with respect to political stuff. I've done a good bit of representation before boards of zoning appeals, so that was the first thing I looked at - absolutely everything about this project constitutes an "of right" use other than overnight lodging. And there's a history of lodging there (one of the buildings was formerly an army barracks), so I think that ought to work, too. There's a system of covenants, because the land is in a subdivision, but none of that appears to be a problem, and the governing board is pretty friendly.

    I do have contacts in the NRA and plan to involve them, but the property is perfect for this project and it's available now. The only real problem left is monetary.
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    US
    Posts
    3,156

    Post imported post

    tag wrote:
    Is Shooter's Paradise the new range that was supposed to be built in Woodbridge? I heard about some new range being built in Woodbridge at a VCDL meeting a while ago..
    Shooters Paradise is finished in woodbridge. The new range that was supposed to be built is unrelated, and I haven't seen ANY progress at the selected location (north end of the same shopping center).

    Too bad...really want a new range to open if for no other reason than to draw away some of the crowd from the other ranges I go to...ever since Shooters closed the other ranges seem MUCH more busy.

  9. #9
    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    www.ProactiveShooters.com, Richmond, Va., , USA
    Posts
    4,671

    Post imported post

    user wrote:
    I do have contacts in the NRA and plan to involve them, but the property is perfect for this project and it's available now. I can say with all honesty that if you yourself do not attend the next NRA range builders conference, you will more than likely have issues that could have been avoided.
    The only real problem left is monetary. From the research that I've done this week, expect to pay 2-3 million at a minimum.
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
    Sabre Red Pepper Spray Instructor
    Glock Certified Armorer
    Instructor Bio - http://proactiveshooters.com/about-us/

  10. #10
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    7,705

    Post imported post

    user wrote:
    I don't foresee any problems whatsoever with respect to political stuff. I've done a good bit of representation before boards of zoning appeals, so that was the first thing I looked at - absolutely everything about this project constitutes an "of right" use other than overnight lodging. And there's a history of lodging there (one of the buildings was formerly an army barracks), so I think that ought to work, too. There's a system of covenants, because the land is in a subdivision, but none of that appears to be a problem, and the governing board is pretty friendly.

    I do have contacts in the NRA and plan to involve them, but the property is perfect for this project and it's available now. The only real problem left is monetary.
    Will you have NIMBY issues? How close are the nearest neighbors?

    TFred


  11. #11
    Regular Member gis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Prince William County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    264

    Post imported post

    User, a really great idea, but I wouldn't count on the federal market too much. ICE just finished building a new facility in NoVA and some agencies use the facilities at Quantico. Local law enforcement, maybe. I talked to an insider regarding Silver Eagle a few nights ago. They are not doing well because they overestimated the demand.Templar Tactical is making the same mistake in Ohio as we speak. I talked to the Templar guys at TRExpo in Chantilly a few weeks ago. They are not listening bause they are still riding high.

    Your market is primarily civilian, maybe with a little of non-federal law enforcement. It all depends on what you offer. I am very well connected in the private U.S. and international firearms training circuits andhelped design several training facilities and curricula in the U.S. The possibilities are endless, but so is the bill if you go all out. Remember that Storm Mountain is only a couple of hours away at the most and TDI in Ohio is 6-7 hours, don't know what's happening at Blackwater these days. They have nice facilities and established reputations. If you put one in the middle of it all, you have to differentiate yourself, attract top notch instructors, and be cost-competitive.

    I can talk on this topic for a long time. If you want, send me a PM.

  12. #12
    Accomplished Advocate user's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Northern Piedmont of Virginia
    Posts
    2,373

    Post imported post

    TFred wrote:
    ...
    Will you have NIMBY issues?* How close are the nearest neighbors?

    TFred
    I don't think so - the subdivision is designed to be commercial / residential, but all the residential stuff is way over on the far side. The zoning is such that I could put a small manufacturing plant in there. I told the folks there that:
    1) there won't be bullets flying around because the building is solid masonry, and all walls and floors are at least eighteen inches thick; the lower floor where the shooting will be has a ceiling of reinforced pre-stressed concrete and is half underground, as the building is set into a hillside.
    2) There won't be gun-crazy cowboy knuckleheads running around the "campus" - there are already lots of folks carrying guns around with CHP's, and those who are present with guns will be law enforcement, trainers, course attendees, and generally people who are likely to be responsible. I said the community would probably be safer as a result - would you rob someone in a place like that, not knowing whether they had a gun or not?
    3) There won't be any excessive noise from outside the first floor of the main building, since it is a thick concrete and block structure, and we have an interest in not having that sound annoy people on the second floor, much less outside the building.
    4)It'll have to look nice from the outside in order to attract the kind of folks we want to spend money there.

    That was pretty much all they were worried about.
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

  13. #13
    Accomplished Advocate user's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Northern Piedmont of Virginia
    Posts
    2,373

    Post imported post

    gis wrote:
    User, a really great idea, but I wouldn't count on the federal market too much.* ...
    Your market is primarily civilian, maybe with a little of non-federal law enforcement.* ....* If you put one in the middle of it all, you have to differentiate yourself, attract top notch instructors, and be cost-competitive.

    I can talk on this topic for a long time.* If you want, send me a PM.
    Good observations - and thanks, I'll do that.
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •