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Thread: A new member

  1. #1
    Regular Member
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    Sep 2009

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    I am a new member to this fine forum that recently ETS'd from the Army and moved to this fine State.

    After lurking in the shadows for a while I decided it was time to post up and say hello and thank everyone for all of the posts that contain so much useful information.

    I was reading back a few pages and wanted to quote something from the following thread instead of bumping that thread to the top.
    virginiatuck wrote:

    I think Pennsylvania rivals Virginia. A lot of the laws are similar, but I think PA might be in front of VA by a nose; as far as the laws themselves.

    PA is better in that:

    CC is permitted in restaurants that serve alcohol; PA has bars, too, and they're not off-limits for CC either. I don't think there is a law in PA that forbids the carrying a concealed firearm while under the influence of alcohol either.

    No NFA weapons are forbidden. AFAIK, you can own a Striker 12 and machine guns do not have to be registered.
    PA actually has a law against firearm registration: 18 PA.C.S. § 6111.4

    You may purchase more than one handgun at any time.
    There's not even a law regarding carry in places of worship in PA. VA law basically says that you must have a good reason to carry in places of worship.

    PA LTCF is not required for high-capacity magazines; whereas VA requires CHP to carry firearms loaded with high-capacity magazines in certain places.
    PA LTCF issuance does not require firearms training certification. VA requires the completion of basic firearms safety training before issuance of a CHP.
    PA LTCF is issued by a county Sheriff or police chief, so they are not automatically part of the public record. Since VA applications for CHP go through the Clerk of the Circuit Court, they are automatically part of the public record.

    As a former military police officer I have always appreciated the fact that the VA permit went through the Clerk of the Circuit Court. A holder of the VA CHP is entered into VCIN / NCIC which is situational useful information to have.

    Once again thanks to everyone that has input so much useful information and personal experience on this forum. If anyone wonders about my user name it was my call sign/nickname from a tour in Iraq.

  2. #2
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Mar 2008
    Loudoun County - Dulles Airport, Virginia, USA

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    Welcome Joe.. and thanks for your service..

    So you handle is kinda like BlackMagicWoman...

    A woman that knows Black Magic or a Black Woman that knows "regular" magic.

    Carry On.


    VirginiaOpenCarry.Org (Coins, Shirts and Patches)
    - - - -
    For VA Open Carry Cards send a S.A.2S.E. to: Ed's OC cards, Box 16143, Wash DC 20041-6143 (they are free but some folks enclose a couple bucks too)

  3. #3
    Founder's Club Member
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    Feb 2007
    Islamabad, Pakistan

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    Welcome aboard! Not sure if I appreciate my CHP and personal info used to obtain it being a part of the public record though.

  4. #4
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Oct 2008
    Most historic town in, Virginia, USA

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    BlackBusJoe wrote:
    Since VA applications for CHP go through the Clerk of the Circuit Court, they are automatically part of the public record.
    As a former military police officer I have always appreciated the fact that the VA permit went through the Clerk of the Circuit Court. A holder of the VA CHP is entered into VCIN / NCIC which is situational useful information to have.
    Welcome, glad you're here!

    You will find that most if not almost all here are very unhappy that the CHP application records are open to the public. Ending this practice is near the top of the priority list of the community when it comes to legislative lobby efforts.

    This is the sole reason that I will never obtain a Virginia CHP until the law is changed to protect my privacy. Until recently (and I am convinced it was because of much heat generated by organizations such as VCDL and OCDO) my local newspaper published monthly lists of new CHP grantees, with full names and streets of residence.

    It was infuriating that an organization that claims to want to keep guns off the streets and out of the hands of criminals, published a monthly shopping guide to homes where criminals could almost certainly find guns stored, and in so doing put the lives and property of law-abiding citizens at risk. This practice is still fully legal, and any newspaper could resume or commence this practice at any time, and you are powerless to stop it.

    I don't think I would have a problem with CHP status being included in a Law Enforcement database, I haven't really considered it. But until it's hidden from Joe Public and his nosy neighbors, there will be no Virginia CHP for me! That is what they "invented" Utah permits for!


  5. #5
    Regular Member virginiatuck's Avatar
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    Feb 2009
    Loudoun County, Virginia, USA

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    I have less of an issue with CHP information being available through VCIN than I do with NCIC, but there is still a potential for misuse of the information available from VCIN. As far as I know, from reading Federal law, data in NCIC is basically limited to that pertaining to criminals (and even then, certain criminals), wanted persons, missing persons, unidentified persons, members of violent criminal gangs, known terrorists, and people deemed by the SS to be threats to the POTUS. A VA CHP holder is not any of the above so inclusion of that information into NCIC would be a violation of Federal law.

    I see two potential outcomes for the VA CHP holder that has been detained by the police. 1) The detention is over much faster since the police can quickly determine whether a firearm is being carried lawfully and the person is released; 2) The detention lasts much longer because the police somehow construe the existence of a CHP in the person's name as probable cause to search for "illegal" firearms.

    For example, Maryland criminal code §4–206 states:
    (a) (1) A law enforcement officer may make an inquiry and conduct a limited search of a person under paragraph (2) of this subsection if the officer, in light of the officer's observations, information, and experience, reasonably believes that:
    (i) the person may be wearing, carrying, or transporting a handgun in violation of § 4-203 of this subtitle;
    (ii) because the person possesses a handgun, the person is or presently may be dangerous to the officer or to others;
    (iii) under the circumstances, it is impracticable to obtain a search warrant; and
    (iv) to protect the officer or others, swift measures are necessary to discover whether the person is wearing, carrying, or transporting a handgun.
    (2) If the circumstances specified under paragraph (1) of this subsection exist, a law enforcement officer:
    (i) may approach the person and announce the officer's status as a law enforcement officer;
    (ii) may request the name and address of the person;
    (iii) if the person is in a vehicle, may request the person's license to operate the vehicle and the registration of the vehicle;
    (iv) may ask any question and request any explanation that may be reasonably calculated to determine whether the person is unlawfully wearing, carrying, or transporting a handgun in violation of § 4-203 of this subtitle; and
    (v) if the person does not offer an explanation that dispels the officer's reasonable beliefs described in paragraph (1) of this subsection, may conduct a search of the person limited to a patting or frisking of the person's clothing in search of a handgun.
    (3) A law enforcement officer acting under this subsection shall take into account all circumstances of the occasion, including the age, appearance, physical condition, manner, and gender of the person approached.

    (b) (1) If the officer discovers that the person is wearing, carrying, or transporting a handgun, the officer may demand evidence from the person of the person's authority to wear, carry, or transport the handgun in accordance with § 4-203(b) of this article.
    (2) If the person does not produce the evidence specified in paragraph (1) of this subsection, the officer may seize the handgun and arrest the person.

    (c) (1) A law enforcement officer who conducts a search or seizure in accordance with this section shall file a written report with the law enforcement officer's employer unit within 24 hours after the search or seizure.
    (2) The report shall be on a form that the Secretary of Public Safety and Correctional Services prescribes, shall include the name of the person searched, and shall describe the circumstances surrounding and the reasons for the search or seizure.
    (3) A copy of the report shall be sent to the Secretary of the State Police.

    (d) On request of a law enforcement officer, the Attorney General shall defend the officer in a civil action, including any appeal, in which the officer is sued for conducting a search or seizure under this section that is alleged to be unreasonable and unlawful.

    (e) (1) This section may not be construed to limit the right of a law enforcement officer to conduct any other type of search or seizure or make an arrest that is otherwise authorized by law.
    (2) The provisions of this section are in addition to and not limited by the provisions of Title 2 of the Criminal Procedure Article.

  6. #6
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Jan 2007
    North Chesterfield VA

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    Welcome to OCDO and the Commonwealth.

    Have you joined VCDL yet?

    Whereabouts are you located? Are you aware of the various OC dinners, lunches, breakfasts, litter pick-ups, and other events we put on? Come on out and join us at one or more of them.

    stay safe.

    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"

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