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Thread: Just got escorted out of Nordstrom/Chandler Fashion Center.

  1. #1
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    Hello All,

    I was shopping with my girlfriend in the mall for an hour with no problems. I walked into nordstroms and I knew there was going to be a problem because the young teenage girl behind the jewelry counter immediately noticed my sidearm. I saw her talk to one of her co workers, then get on the phone. I didn't know if she was calling the police or the security. However, I finished looking and right as I was about to leave Nordstroms, an african american male named "Sam" from loss prevention approached me. He said that I could not carry on nordstroms because it's private property. I asked him if there was a written policy I could reference, or if he was just making this up on the spot without properly knowing policy. He refused to give me a written copy, saying that it's "private property" over and over again. I explained to him there are no signs on the doors either at the front of the store or the entrance leading to the parking lot. Anyways, I was getting no where with him. I left.

    As I was leaving, I went into another store and did some shopping and three security guards and a police officer approached me. Only the security officer spoke to me. He said that I needed to leave because they do not allow firearms on the property. I asked him for a written policy as well, he kinda reached into his pocket and grabbed some papers, then his other security officer friend just chimed in and said "This is private property, you need to leave." I kindly explained that there are no signs on the doors, and I have shopped here multiple times with no issues. He didn't care, he said "We don't have to put signs, but you need to leave now."

    I got up to leave, and they escorted me out.

    I came home and I called Nordstroms. I spoke with Marla, she was the manager on duty. She said that because the chandler fashion center doesn't allow firearms they do not either. I asked if specifically nordstroms has a policy against it -- and she said yes. I then asked for written confirmation, or a place on the website I could go to verify and she said she doesn't have it. I then asked for her executive offices # she referred me to Charlotte Jensen, the store manager. I called back and she was not in. I asked the person who answered for the executive # and she gave me the "Store 1" Number which was 206-628-2111. I called that #, and I spoke w/ the lady. I asked her to transfer to me the executive office. She asked for anyone in particular. I asked for the President & CEO. She gave me Eric Nordstroms voice mail. I left a voicemail asking for clarification and to either call me or email me.

    I have also emailed WestCor, the owner of the Chandler Fashion Center the following message:

    Hello,

    I was emailing you for clarification on your policy on carrying firearms on your mall properties in Arizona. I have looked and there are not any signs posted that say, "No firearms." However, I was recently asked to leave your Chandler Fashion Center location due to openly carrying a firearm.

    I do not know if you know this, however, Arizona state law allows for open carry unless specifically prohibited by the business owner. There are exceptions such as federal buildings, and bars.

    Could you please clarify?

    Thanks.
    I am waiting for a response on that.

    Just wanted to give you guys a heads up.



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    Kildars wrote:
    Hello All,

    I was shopping with my girlfriend in the mall for an hour with no problems. I walked into nordstroms and I knew there was going to be a problem because the young teenage girl behind the jewelry counter immediately noticed my sidearm. I saw her talk to one of her co workers, then get on the phone. I didn't know if she was calling the police or the security. However, I finished looking and right as I was about to leave Nordstroms, an african american male named "Sam" from loss prevention approached me. He said that I could not carry on nordstroms because it's private property. I asked him if there was a written policy I could reference, or if he was just making this up on the spot without properly knowing policy. He refused to give me a written copy, saying that it's "private property" over and over again. I explained to him there are no signs on the doors either at the front of the store or the entrance leading to the parking lot. Anyways, I was getting no where with him. I left.

    As I was leaving, I went into another store and did some shopping and three security guards and a police officer approached me. Only the security officer spoke to me. He said that I needed to leave because they do not allow firearms on the property. I asked him for a written policy as well, he kinda reached into his pocket and grabbed some papers, then his other security officer friend just chimed in and said "This is private property, you need to leave." I kindly explained that there are no signs on the doors, and I have shopped here multiple times with no issues. He didn't care, he said "We don't have to put signs, but you need to leave now."

    I got up to leave, and they escorted me out.

    I came home and I called Nordstroms. I spoke with Marla, she was the manager on duty. She said that because the chandler fashion center doesn't allow firearms they do not either. I asked if specifically nordstroms has a policy against it -- and she said yes. I then asked for written confirmation, or a place on the website I could go to verify and she said she doesn't have it. I then asked for her executive offices # she referred me to Charlotte Jensen, the store manager. I called back and she was not in. I asked the person who answered for the executive # and she gave me the "Store 1" Number which was 206-628-2111. I called that #, and I spoke w/ the lady. I asked her to transfer to me the executive office. She asked for anyone in particular. I asked for the President & CEO. She gave me Eric Nordstroms voice mail. I left a voicemail asking for clarification and to either call me or email me.

    I have also emailed WestCor, the owner of the Chandler Fashion Center the following message:

    Hello,

    I was emailing you for clarification on your policy on carrying firearms on your mall properties in Arizona. I have looked and there are not any signs posted that say, "No firearms." However, I was recently asked to leave your Chandler Fashion Center location due to openly carrying a firearm.

    I do not know if you know this, however, Arizona state law allows for open carry unless specifically prohibited by the business owner. There are exceptions such as federal buildings, and bars.

    Could you please clarify?

    Thanks.
    I am waiting for a response on that.

    Just wanted to give you guys a heads up.

    Chandler fashion center is posted IIRC.

    Pretty much any mall in the city is a no no for carrying.

  3. #3
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    I entered through the barnes & nobles and there are no signs.

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    Kildars wrote:
    I entered through the barnes & nobles and there are no signs.
    Ah gotcha. I know there's a sign on sears and I've definitely heard chandler mall is no guns from multiple people.

    I just try and avoid malls wherever possible now.

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    LuvmyXD9 wrote:
    Kildars wrote:
    I entered through the barnes & nobles and there are no signs.
    Ah gotcha. I know there's a sign on sears and I've definitely heard chandler mall is no guns from multiple people.

    I just try and avoid malls wherever possible now.
    Right, I just like to get clarity from owners/managers to make sure I never go back unless I have to. I believe in voting w/ my wallet.

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    With the actual property owner being Westcor, we're all out of luck. Westcor has a solid and unwavering policy company-wide to ban firearms. As LuvmyXD9mentioned, that pretty much means every mall and major shopping center in the valley.

    http://www.westcor.com/default.aspx?page=centerlocator


    Of course, if one carries concealed in such places and enters through an area that is NOT posted, well... =)

    Might be worth letting individual stores know that they are losing business as a result of their landlord's policies. While we the people probably wouldn't have much effect on Westcor directly, their customers, the stores, might.

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    Did the police officer have a gun?

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    Statesman wrote:
    Did the police officer have a gun?
    of course, hes a licensed professional us peasant civilians cant possibly be smart enough to carry such a complicated weapon system that might get out of our control and shoot up the whole mall

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    r6-rider wrote:
    Statesman wrote:
    Did the police officer have a gun?
    of course, hes a licensed professional us peasant civilians cant possibly be smart enough to carry such a complicated weapon system that might get out of our control and shoot up the whole mall
    you mean like this professional ?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOvhNQ-WcEw

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    Statesman wrote:
    Did the police officer have a gun?
    God I should have said that.

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    Kildars wrote:
    Hello All,

    This occurred in Arizona, but has to do with Nordstroms.

    I was shopping with my girlfriend in the mall for an hour with no problems. I walked into nordstroms and I knew there was going to be a problem because the young teenage girl behind the jewelry counter immediately noticed my sidearm. I saw her talk to one of her co workers, then get on the phone. I didn't know if she was calling the police or the security. However, I finished looking and right as I was about to leave Nordstroms, an african american male named "Sam" from loss prevention approached me. He said that I could not carry on nordstroms because it's private property. I asked him if there was a written policy I could reference, or if he was just making this up on the spot without properly knowing policy. He refused to give me a written copy, saying that it's "private property" over and over again. I explained to him there are no signs on the doors either at the front of the store or the entrance leading to the parking lot. Anyways, I was getting no where with him. I left.

    As I was leaving, I went into another store and did some shopping and three security guards and a police officer approached me. Only the security officer spoke to me. He said that I needed to leave because they do not allow firearms on the property. I asked him for a written policy as well, he kinda reached into his pocket and grabbed some papers, then his other security officer friend just chimed in and said "This is private property, you need to leave." I kindly explained that there are no signs on the doors, and I have shopped here multiple times with no issues. He didn't care, he said "We don't have to put signs, but you need to leave now."

    I got up to leave, and they escorted me out.
    By your estimates, how much time elapsed:

    a) in your interaction with Sam the Nordstrom LP fellow?

    b) in your interaction with the 3 SG/1 LEO group?

    Also, why did you have to "get up" to leave? Were you seated in the store?



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    McX wrote:
    what about criminals? They can still carry weapons though right? They won't be escorted out?
    Hey... there was no reason to bring us crazy, "concealed carry where ever we want; the rights of store owners be damned people", into this thread...

  14. #14
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    Just got off the phone with Eric Nordstrom. Yes the CEO actually called me back. The conversation went like this.

    Me: "Hello, I was wondering if you prohibited legal carry on your property whether it be open or concealed."

    Him: "Well, It's private property"
    Me: "Yeah, I know that. Im just wondering if you actually do prohibit firearms."

    Him" Well, I must say this is an interesting questions, I don't think anyone has questioned it before."

    Me: "Well, I'm just curious -- I like to support pro-gun establishments and I post on forums of people who refuse to shop at establishments who ban firearms."

    Him: "Well yes, that is the policy. We do not allow firearms on nordstroms property."
    Me: "Why is that?"

    Him: "It makes customers uncomfortable and our goal as a business is to make it a conformable experience for all our customers, or at least as many as possible."

    Me: "Well why do you ban conceal carry then?"

    Him: "Well if it was concealed we wouldn't know.. but if we knew you were concealing we would ask you to leave."

    Me: "So the rule is there, but you know it will be broken? Why not just allow concealed carry?"

    Him: "It makes customers uncomfortable."

    Me: "Okay, have a nice day."


  15. #15
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    HankT wrote:
    Kildars wrote:
    Hello All,

    This occurred in Arizona, but has to do with Nordstroms.

    I was shopping with my girlfriend in the mall for an hour with no problems. I walked into nordstroms and I knew there was going to be a problem because the young teenage girl behind the jewelry counter immediately noticed my sidearm. I saw her talk to one of her co workers, then get on the phone. I didn't know if she was calling the police or the security. However, I finished looking and right as I was about to leave Nordstroms, an african american male named "Sam" from loss prevention approached me. He said that I could not carry on nordstroms because it's private property. I asked him if there was a written policy I could reference, or if he was just making this up on the spot without properly knowing policy. He refused to give me a written copy, saying that it's "private property" over and over again. I explained to him there are no signs on the doors either at the front of the store or the entrance leading to the parking lot. Anyways, I was getting no where with him. I left.

    As I was leaving, I went into another store and did some shopping and three security guards and a police officer approached me. Only the security officer spoke to me. He said that I needed to leave because they do not allow firearms on the property. I asked him for a written policy as well, he kinda reached into his pocket and grabbed some papers, then his other security officer friend just chimed in and said "This is private property, you need to leave." I kindly explained that there are no signs on the doors, and I have shopped here multiple times with no issues. He didn't care, he said "We don't have to put signs, but you need to leave now."

    I got up to leave, and they escorted me out.
    By your estimates, how much time elapsed:

    a) in your interaction with Sam the Nordstrom LP fellow?

    b) in your interaction with the 3 SG/1 LEO group?

    Also, why did you have to "get up" to leave? Were you seated in the store?

    I would say approx 3-5minutes. I was seated in the waiting area, yes.

  16. #16
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    Just got this email from the owners of the mall property, WestCor:

    Mr. [edited]:

    Our Westcor Code of Conduct, posted at various areas of our centers in Arizona, prohibits firearms and other weapons, in the common areas of our centers. The signage that simply prohibits weapons is posted on the lower portions of our common area entrances to the mall. While somewhat nondescript, the signage satisfies State requirements. Please understand we have this policy in place to ensure the safety and security of everyone who visit our centers and our intention is not to limit any individual rights.
    Thank you for your feedback on our policy and please feel free to contact me personally should you have any further questions or concerns.


    William Harrell| Assistant Vice President for Security and Guest Services
    . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
    Westcor
    11411 North Tatum Blvd.
    Phoenix, AZ 85028
    p. 602 .953 .6581

    f. 602 .494 .6131


    I'm drafting a response to him, any suggestion on input?


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    The usual "How can you provide safety to your customers by allowing criminals to carry firearms into your establishment(criminals won't pay any attention to your signs and you don't have metal detectors to prevent that from happening) and yetprevent the law abiding citizen that wants nothing more than to be able to protect his own life while shopping from being able to do that?"

  18. #18
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    The entire Chandler Fashion Mall is a no carry zone. I always have my baby daughter when I go there and I place my pistol in the bottom area of her stroller. Nobody has ever noticed or said a thing.

  19. #19
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    I responded to the westcor email, we'll see if I get a response.

  20. #20
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    double post

  21. #21
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    E mailing and calling and talking to Westcor is like Obama telling you the health care program will be a success and be free.
    Believe what you want, they've been against any weapons for years, and along with their other holdings in other states.
    I worked indirectly for Westcor building centers and they had in their contracts employees of contractors, etc, were not allowed to be armed.
    Not saying its right, but it is not gonna change them with a few emails.
    Most of teh investors are from anti states anyway, and the $$$ dictate who, what and how things run.
    Good luck with it, expect a canned response if any at all.
    rj

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    I agree that letters and emails will most likely be ineffective, but sometimes I just want to vent a little. Here's my letter and I'll let everyone know if I get a response...





    “Our Westcor Code of Conduct, posted at various areas of our centers in Arizona, prohibits firearms and other weapons, in the common areas of our centers. The signage that simply prohibits weapons is posted on the lower portions of our common area entrances to the mall. While somewhat nondescript, the signage satisfies State requirements. Please understand we have this policy in place to ensure the safety and security of everyone who visit our centers and our intention is not to limit any individual rights.

    Thank you for your feedback on our policy and please feel free to contact me personally should you have any further questions or concerns.”


    William Harrell | Assistant Vice President for Security and Guest Services





    Dear Mr. Harrell,

    I read your above response to a concerned Second Amendment supporter (which by-the-way, has been posted on several local and national gun enthusiast sites).

    I have a few questions.

    You stated in your letter, “Please understand we have this policy in place to ensure the safety and security of everyone who visit our centers[/i]?”

    Are you for real? How ignorant do you think people are? You can insure our safety with unarmed rent-a-cops, while forbidding law-abiding citizens from being armed, and yet knowing full well, the criminal element will ignore your silly signs, and bring in whatever weapons they wish?

    You also include (and I must assume its a joke), “…our intention is not to limit any individual rights.[/i]” (The bold type is directly from your own letter.)

    Speaking out of both sides of your mouth (at the same time), is an art form you have apparently mastered. Well done. I would submit to you however, that it is exactly your intention, to not only limit, but trample my Second Amendment Rights, by asking me (as a free and law-abiding citizen) not to be armed, when, and where, I wish, anywhere within these United States.

    In this day and age of ever increasing economic woes, and with the extreme probability of drastically reduced holiday season earnings, I wish your organization the very best of luck with your short sighted liberal minded endeavors.

    My wife and I are both (very) gainfully employed, and will be shopping for our children’s Christmas gifts as usual… but not at any of your Westcor “centers”.

    Please have an enjoyable and happy holiday season,

    Gregg xxxxxx



  23. #23
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    Emails do no harm, they can only help. If they got enough letters/emails/calls they may reconsider. I plan to do all my shopping at non-westcor property. I may only be spending a $1000 or so this year, but it won't be at the Chandler Fashion Center or any WestCor property.



  24. #24
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    My Response:

    Mr Harrel:

    Thank you for your response. I am saddened to hear that you choose to limit a civil right we as Americans enjoy in the name of safety and security. How do you expect to provide safety and security to your patrons when you choose to prevent legal carry on your property while doing nothing to ensure criminals, who will ignore your signs, do not carry on your property. I feel you are limited an individual right, and while it is your right to do that as a property owner, I also feel you should know that many people (including myself) will no longer patronize any of your WestCor property if we can avoid it. There are forums dedicated to pointing out pro-gun and anti-gun businesses.

    I would like to point out that most shootings & slaughters happen in gun free zones such as schools and malls. A quick google search shows the vast amount of mall shootings. http://www.google.com/#q=mall+shooti...b3655b1bbc91d8. There are also many studies showing that legal owners of firearms are less likely to commit a crime than people who are not licensed. I do not believe there is a single incident of a legally carried firearm shooting in a mall unless it was in self defense.

    Please let me know what you think

  25. #25
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    How about:

    "Since you will not allow me to carry a firearm to defend myself, may I assume then that you and your company will take full responsibility for my safety, and the safety of everyone who frequents your establishment?"

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