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Thread: CC at taste of Co

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    My wife and I are going to the Taste of Colorado and she asked me if I could conceal carry there and I said yes, that I have a Co permit am I right or wrong, it is in Unconstitutional Denver.

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    CC is ok with permit.

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    Do they have Denver police or other security there to check for weapons at the entrance to the event?

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    Why? If you have a permit, what's the issue?

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    If they are screening for weapons at the event then you cannot carry per 18-12-214 section 4.
    However 29-11.7-104 also say's that they MUST POST a no carry sign at the ENTRANCE of the building/area that they do not want weapons.
    Also if you are not from Denver, there is a law that protects you from any strange laws that they may have, but you are unaware of. 29-11.7-101 is to protect you from being convicted of a crime that you unknowingly committed, while carrying/transporting your weapon. For example I put my weapon in full view while I am in my vehicle, it sits on my center column, and in Grand Junction no one will care, however in Denver they may prohibit your weapon from being in plain view, I am protected by 29-11.7-101 because I did not know that.

    personally I wouldn't worry about CCW, as long as they are not screening for weapons, and don't have a sign that is posted at the Entrance of the facility, you are free to carry there by law.

    I printed these laws out and carry them with me in my wallet, you may want to do the same, if you are worried that is. :P

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    Had a great time at the taste of Co last night listening to my old favorite Grand Funk Railroad and the place was rocking. As for CC at the event there was a sign which had the rules of the event which said among other things no firearms leave them at home. In my opinion that rule cannot be enforced. First of all it was not the proper sign a gun with a slash through it and there were no security checking for weapons, besides doesn't the law read quote anywhere in the state except where prohibited by Federal law and you should be allowed due tocarry since you have a Co CCW permit.

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    It would be illigal to carry on any property that has a posting of any kind that say's no firearms/guns/weapons per 18-12-214, there is no regulation on the type of sign to be used. Read the CBI's web site, also the sheriff that you got your CCW from should have provided you with the statutes, if not, as a CCW holder you are responsible for knowing the law, if you can not find out on your own, or you don't know the law, and choose not to know, then don't carry concealed. Below is the CBI's web site, I would become familiar with the law before you break it, are caught, and possibly have your permit revoked (there also may be jail time). Read this link all the way to the bottom, and pay close attention to number 5.

    http://cbi.state.co.us/ccw/Statutes/18-12-214.asp

    Here is the posting law, and don't confuse it by saying that only the local government can restrict you. The above link states the right of the property owner. Either way, carrying where it is restricted is an offense.

    http://cbi.state.co.us/ccw/Statutes/29-11.7-104.asp

    If I stepped on your toes a little, sorry, but if you are a responsible, law abiding citizen, and have a CCW then you should know the law. Its ignorant people that get in trouble, and put a bad name on the rest of us that actually obey the law.

    If there is no sign, I say carry, if there is one, ask the owner, he/she may have an exception if you have a permit. BUT only the property owner can make that exception, the state clearly states that they are not going to infringe on the property owners rights to revoke your carrying of your weapon on there property.

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    Generally, the "no guns" laws in CO go something like this.....you cannot CC into any place with security/metal detectors, you cannot OC into any place with a city law and signs posted.

    Other "no firearms" signs don't carry any weight of law, but if they find out you're carrying and don't want you there with your gun and you don't leave when you're asked to the police could get you for trespassing.
    One day your life is going to flash before your eyes, make it worth watching.

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    If you are familiar with the taste of Colorado it is held on the streets in Denver and is not private property it is located on Colfax and Bannock and there was no security checking for weapons of any type, no permanent metal detectors are on the public streets or at any of the entrances. I am a responsible gun owner and Do try and find about the concealed carry laws in the state. I do ride alongs with the police and the jeffco sheriffs office and grill them on the laws which many do not even know, so I believe that cc there was perfectly legal with a ccw permit and Ill leave it at that, you can agree or disagree with me but I take carrying a weapon very serious and responsibly which all who carry do not.

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    The law clearly states that if it say's no guns, then no guns are allowed Period. regardless of the "screening" that may be present, they are trusting that you will abide by the rules. If you truly were a law abiding citizen then you would not have carried because of the sign.

    Maybe you should call someone and aske about the law. I called and talked to Officer Axford of the Denver Police Department and he said that if there is a sign that say's no firearms/guns, then you CANNOT CARRY PER STATE LAW, NO exceptions. If you want to throw in the "I ride with cops and know everything" then don't ask questions on here when you are not going to listen to the answer.

    I don't care for people who disobey the law and rules, and my opinions don't matter, right is right and wrong is wrong, there is no "gray" area where you are above either. And if you don't want to hear what I have to say, then you shouldn't be reading this. If you are reading this still, and are upset, oh well deal with it. You were wrong, ask your "cop buddies" they will tell you the same thing, because no cop/sheriff is going to tell you you can carry in an area where it clearly say's no guns.

    But I can already tell from your responses that you will not ask a Leo, because you feel you are right, and I am wrong. You have your "feelings" and I have sited the Law. When you are caught and tell the Leo that you felt you had the right to carry, regardless of what was posted, they will not care, they would be able to take your weapon, and your permit, and you would not be able to do anything about it.

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    I think zig-zag has it right. It's public property, so concealed carry cannot be prohibited. It's not a building, and has no PERMANENT security setup, so clearly that statute doesn't apply.

    Wolf, http://cbi.state.co.us/ccw/Statutes/29-11.7-101.asp doesn't protect you from anything, IMHO. It only states the legislature's intent to prevent municipalities from regulating firearms. Unfortunately, the Meyer decision by the state Supreme Court blew holes in that, leading to lots of ambiguity. I highly doubt that the police would give you a free pass because of it.

    29-11.7-104 only applies to open carry, not concealed carry.

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    Wolf81504 wrote:
    The law clearly states that if it say's no guns, then no guns are allowed Period. regardless of the "screening" that may be present, they are trusting that you will abide by the rules. If you truly were a law abiding citizen then you would not have carried because of the sign.

    Maybe you should call someone and aske about the law. I called and talked to Officer Axford of the Denver Police Department and he said that if there is a sign that say's no firearms/guns, then you CANNOT CARRY PER STATE LAW, NO exceptions. If you want to throw in the "I ride with cops and know everything" then don't ask questions on here when you are not going to listen to the answer.

    I don't care for people who disobey the law and rules, and my opinions don't matter, right is right and wrong is wrong, there is no "gray" area where you are above either. And if you don't want to hear what I have to say, then you shouldn't be reading this. If you are reading this still, and are upset, oh well deal with it. You were wrong, ask your "cop buddies" they will tell you the same thing, because no cop/sheriff is going to tell you you can carry in an area where it clearly say's no guns.

    But I can already tell from your responses that you will not ask a Leo, because you feel you are right, and I am wrong. You have your "feelings" and I have sited the Law. When you are caught and tell the Leo that you felt you had the right to carry, regardless of what was posted, they will not care, they would be able to take your weapon, and your permit, and you would not be able to do anything about it.
    I don't even know where to start with this.

    First of all, never ask a LEO for advice about the law. They're the least trustworthy source, as far as I'm concerned.

    Please cite the statute that says that ANY sign legally prohibits carry. Not true. That's the whole reason for state preemption -- cities CANNOT prohibit concealed carry when state law allows it.

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    I completely agree with you Rabbit. Wolf is wrong. The link to the CBI website and 18-12-214 says nothing about signs carrying any legal weight. It does say that the concealed carry law will not limit the rights of a PRIVATE property owner. If a sign says no weapons on private property then I will choose to respect that sign and spend my money elsewhere. Signs on public property stating no firearms are not enforceable since state law preempts them. The only way around that for public property is to set up permanent security screening at every entrance.

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    You are saying its public property, and there is a sign put up that say's no firearms, then 29-11.7-104 applies, and yes it applies to ALL forms of carry, you cannot go onto property, or go into an area where it is posted at the entrance that weapons are not allowed, there is nothing in this statute that allows a person holding a permit to be excluded from this.

    It does not matter if there is screening equipment or not, don't look for loopholes that are not in black and white. If you can show me where in the law it states that carrying a concealed weapon into a weapons prohibited area is legal, if you have a CCW, then I will apologize. However neither your feeling's or mine matter, if it's not in black and white as an exclusion, then there is no exclusion.

    And don't get me wrong, I think that all signs that say no firearms should go away. People should not be afraid of guns, and everyone should carry. And the Govt. should not be able to restrict our Right to carry. However, under current law, they do have the right, and ability to restrict you from taking your firearm into an area. the city street became a no carry area when the event co-coordinator put up a sign restricting carry in that area.

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    RLCbushpilot wrote:
    I completely agree with you Rabbit. Wolf is wrong. The link to the CBI website and 18-12-214 says nothing about signs carrying any legal weight. It does say that the concealed carry law will not limit the rights of a PRIVATE property owner. If a sign says no weapons on private property then I will choose to respect that sign and spend my money elsewhere. Signs on public property stating no firearms are not enforceable since state law preempts them. The only way around that for public property is to set up permanent security screening at every entrance.
    Say I'm wrong all you want, but when you read this http://cbi.state.co.us/ccw/Statutes/29-11.7-104.asp
    which states that "A local government may enact an ordinance, regulation, or other law that prohibits the open carrying of a firearm in a building or specific area within the local government's jurisdiction. If a local government enacts an ordinance, regulation, or other law that prohibits the open carrying of a firearm in a building or specific area, the local government shall post signs at the public entrances to the building or specific area informing persons that the open carrying of firearms is prohibited in the building or specific area."
    Source: L. 2003: Entire article added, p. 653, ยง 2, effective March 18.
    Am I reading this wrong, or does this not say that a Local govt, May place signs saying no carry? And where in here does it say that there has to be permanent screening devices?


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    Wolf, take a deep breath. We're all on the same side.

    29-11.7-104 begins, "A local government may enact an ordinance, regulation, or other law that prohibits the open carrying of a firearm ..."

    It ONLY applies to open carry.

    You need to understand, the law PROHIBITS behavior. If something isn't explicitly prohibited, it is allowed. This is a common principal in law.

    Again, please cite the statute that allows a city to prohibit concealed carry in ANY area. They cannot. That's why state preemption is so important.

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    So your saying that it has to specify "concealed" before it applies? And that only private property owners are able to restrict the carry concealed or not, yes?

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    Wolf81504 wrote:
    So your saying that it has to specify "concealed" before it applies? And that only private property owners are able to restrict the carry concealed or not, yes?
    If by "it" you mean 29-11.7-104, that's absolutely correct. It specifies open carry, not carry, so yes, it only applies to open carry.

    18-12-214 starts as follows:
    (1) (a) A permit to carry a concealed handgun authorizes the permittee to carry a concealed handgun in all areas of the state, except as specifically limited in this section. A permit does not authorize the permittee to use a handgun in a manner that would violate a provision of state law. A local government does not have authority to adopt or enforce an ordinance or resolution that would conflict with any provision of this part 2.

    To review, there are four (and only four) restrictions on concealed carry in Colorado:

    1) Federal property and buildings;

    2) Public buildings with permanent security facilities;

    3) K-12 schools;

    4) Private property

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    Ok I see where I went wrong with posting for the local govt, and for that I apologize.

    But what about the section in 18-12-214 (5) Nothing in this part 2 shall be construed to limit, restrict, or prohibit in any manner the existing rights of a private property owner, private tenant, private employer, or private business entity.

    The way I understand this, the private entity is Taste of Co, and they are the one's not wanting weapons in the area, in so saying, it would be against their rules to carry "a firearm" regardless if it is concealed or not, since they generalized and put "no firearms leave them at home". Am I wrong? they are the ones who are occupying that area, thus their place of business. Just like a business owner occupying a building, they are in control of that area, and the business's rules apply, and you are infringing on the business entity's wishes when entering the area where they are doing business with a firearm. Or am I completely screwed up on the way that I am viewing this?

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    If you read the Pennsylvania and Virginia forums, there are cases where the authorities have made that claim -- that public property becomes "semi-private" when leased to a business. It seems to me that's faulty logic -- it's still public property.

    I have no knowledge of the organization that promotes the Taste of Colorado, but I doubt that they lease the property. I think it's a stretch to think they have any kind of legal control over the area.

    There are other cases where states are going through the "guns in parks" issue, and towns are claiming that prohibitions on guns in schools apply to a city park when the school kids are using the park -- that the the park effectively is school property during those times.

    I think that's nonsense, but it's probably for the courts to decide.

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    So now we are at a dead end? That's gunna bug me.... I hate dead ends, and I'll try to get a hold of the AG via email, and see what he say's.

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    Thats the way I read 18-12-214 that a local government does not have the authority toadopt or enforce an ordiance or resolution that would conflict with any provision of this. In all areas of the state means all areas except where prohibited by Federal Law. Do we all agree on this, and yes we are on the same side whether we agree with each other or not.Denver does not allow open carry no matter if you have a permit or not as everyone is aware of. I don,t know if the city put up the signs or perhaps the vendors there but they can not enforce the no conceal carry law because of the pre-emption law, but they can enforce the OPEN CARRY of firearms who disagrees or agrees with that. So inother words, just because there is a gathering of people in the area they cannot make any special ordinance for the affair just for the time the taste of colorado is there, am I right or wrong, I know that Wolf will disagree with me everything I said so far I was wrong but thats Ok he has a right to as lomg as things stay civil and doesn't get personal. Maybe you (wolf) should do as you tell me and read all the laws about where open carry and conceal carry laws differ not just the ones that justify what you think

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    I can see Wolf's point about the area possibly being seen as controlled by the business entity. However I don't think in this situation that the public streets can be controlled by a private entity. If the area was roped off and admission charged to get in, then I could see an argument being made for the organization having control over the space.

    There is another thing to be brought up here. If a business chooses to post no firearms signs then I am going to respect their wishes and not patronize them. However if I don't see the sign I am not in violation of any law if I walk into the business. I have seen stories across these forums of people carrying into places and being asked to leave. As long as you leave when asked you are legal. If you don't leave you can be charged with trespassing. No firearms signs in Colorado carry no weight of law. Trespassing comes into play when you have been asked to leave and refuse.

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    Wolf81504 wrote:
    So now we are at a dead end? That's gunna bug me.... I hate dead ends, and I'll try to get a hold of the AG via email, and see what he say's.
    I've never tried getting an opinion from the Attorney General, but everyone I know who did was told that the AG won't give an opinion to a private citizen. His job apparently is to give opinions to government officials, not us.

    Let us know what happens.

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    The thing about ToC and streetfestivals in general, it seems that their signage is inconsistent. I.e. they'll have big signs with festival rules at "main" entrances, or at least the busy ones, but when it comestoa back corner, I have trouble findingany signs for outside food and drink, coolers, glass bottles, etc. let alone firearms. I mean if there's a barricade up to block vehicles, but ample pedestrian room, I consider it an "entrance"but I rarely see signs there.

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