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Thread: Travis Yates' update: Madison, WI Man who openly carried gun will fight disorderly conduct charge

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    http://www.wkowtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=11079594

    MADISON (WKOW) -- The UW-Madison graduate student, who police cited with disorderly conduct after walking openly with a gun for about a dozen blocks in broad daylight through downtown, is fighting his ticket.
    Travis Yates tells 27 News that his lawyer entered a "mute plea" in municipal court, in effect a not guilty plea. A preliminary hearing is now scheduled for September 29.
    Yates said he opted to have his case heard before a judge, not a jury. In an email this week, he wrote, "We are hoping the city will decide not to prosecute."
    Ealier this year, Attorney General J.B. Van Hollen issued an advisory to the state's district attorneys, asking them to consider circumstances before charging someone who openly carries with disorderly conduct.
    That memorandum was issued following an incident in West Allis in February in which a homeowner was charged after a neighbor saw him walking on his lawn with a gun in plain view.


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    Finally, someone is taking a stand. :celebrate

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    Founder's Club Member springfield 1911's Avatar
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    AnyJ.Gleason wrote:
    Finally, someone is taking a stand. :celebrate
    Any time a member or a non member o.c. at times with police interference, writes or sends e-mails, hosts a picnic, attends common council meetings along with members who research and post their findings. AS I see it a stand has been taken by many.

    Edited to mention Parabellum and Brad in their cases.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJQ34JTqk0I

    In the ashes burns an ember of liberty, We are the fuel to ignite the ember into a flame of liberty.

    The embodiment of our founding fathers will not be found in one man , But in Many.

    ****** give it away ( Our rights ) prostitutes sell it (Mandated training).

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    OK, geez I forgot how petty people are on here about the words you use.

    Finally!, It is about time someone takes a stand and fights the legal fight in court that will hopefully get the attention of ignorant police officers all over the state.

    That better?

    Edited to comment on para and Brad

    I am talking about on a municipal level

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    I like how on the same page about Travis, the first story in the Most read stories listing is about a UW student beaten near campus.

    "Why would you need to carry a gun?"

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    trailblazer2003 wrote:
    I like how on the same page about Travis, the first story in the Most read stories listing is about a UW student beaten near campus.

    "Why would you need to carry a gun?"
    And the most viewed video on the same webpageis of State Representative Fred Clark (D) running a red light and having a wreck with a bicyclist! I bet if there was not video he would have lied and lied about the incident until he was visibly blue instead of metaphorically. He states "he was justnot paying attention" I think for someone not fully aware of running a red light, he sure was abel to get on the brakes quick.. I bet the ***** ran the light on purpose and just didn't expect a bicyclist to come through on a green.

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    If it goes to trail and he needs support I'm willing to attend. If it's cold I just want something warm to drink

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    Regular Member david.ross's Avatar
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    Nutczak wrote:
    He states "he was justnot paying attention" I think for someone not fully aware of running a red light, he sure was abel to get on the brakes quick.. I bet the ***** ran the light on purpose and just didn't expect a bicyclist to come through on a green.
    Did anyone care to see if he was talking on his cellphone or text messaging?
    Gays are prominent members of firearm rights, we do more via the courts, don't like it? Leave.
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    I'm concerned about the photo. Certainly he did not have his hand on the gun while strolling about. Was he encouraged to pose this way? Don't be suckered in by the media, what you say and what you do will be misrepresented.

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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    http://www.wkowtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=11079594

    MADISON (WKOW) -- The UW-Madison graduate student, who police cited with disorderly conduct after walking openly with a openly holstered gun for about a dozen blocks in broad daylight (this is important because??) through downtown, is fighting his ticket.
    Travis Yates tells 27 News that his lawyer entered a "mute plea" in municipal court, in effect a not guilty plea. If you have a lawyer, let the lawyer do the talking. A preliminary hearing is now scheduled for September 29.
    Yates said he opted to have his case heard before a judge, not a jury. Does a municipal citation give you the option of a jury trial? It might have been a good choice. The judge would then have to explain the law to the jury. In an email this week, he wrote, "We are hoping the city will decide not to prosecute." Don't turn into a publicity *****. See comment on attorney above.
    Ealier this year, Attorney General J.B. Van Hollen issued an advisory to the state's district attorneys, asking them to consider circumstances before deciding whether or not to chargeing someone who openly carries with disorderly conduct. Not really. The simple act of OC cannot be the basis for a DC charge, whatever the circumstances. Now putting your hand on the gun (see photo) is problematic.
    That memorandum was issued following an incident in West Allis in February in which a homeowner was charged after a neighbor saw him walking on his (the neighbor's?)lawn-ambiguous at best.) with a holstered gun in plain view (this is not a bad act - itis required by state law). And what happened then Carl? Sometimes omission is the graver offense.
    I thought Carl Agnelly was smarter and more honestthan this article indicates. Maybe he was having a bad day. Or is something else at work? If you permit it, the media will play you like a cheap fiddle. This is beginning to look like an attempt to snatch defeat from the jaws of certain victory.

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    anybody know if he got his gun back???

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    southside wrote:
    anybody know if he got his gun back???
    I believe after being cited, the officer drove Travis back to his house and gave the gun back. Have to recheck the reports to confirm.

    eta: found the report from Madison PD in this thread started by Hugh Jarmis, http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum57/29745.html

    just the report issued by Madison:

    http://www.cityofmadison.com/inciden...F.cfm?id=10256

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    apjonas wrote:
    Now putting your hand on the gun (see photo) is problematic.
    apjonas wrote:
    I'm concerned about the photo. Certainly he did not have his hand on the gun while strolling about. Was he encouraged to pose this way? Don't be suckered in by the media, what you say and what you do will be misrepresented.
    The simple act of touching your holstered handgun violates no law. It may not be the image we wish to convey but it is not an issue unless you are acting otherwise threatening. The singular act of offending a hyper sensitive individual is never legitimate basis for DC. If you notice, theretaining strap is even snapped in place. Although it is proper weapon retention, it is nota requirement for OC.

    One of the arguments against OC in parks used this past week was the issue of someone walking up and grabbing your handgun from its holster. If someone were to hassle someone about touching their holstered handgun, they could merely reply that they are ensuring that it is secure.


    My response to this line of questioning was to inquire if there is a rash of people trying to disarm police officers in the city and how many instances of this have occured in the past.

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    Interceptor_Knight wrote:
    My response to this line of questioning was to inquire if there is a rash of people trying to disarm police officers in the city and how many instances of this have occured in the past.
    Or, even more to the point, inquire if there isa rash of people trying to disarm civilian open carriers.

    And, when they sputter that they don't know, point them to this website, tell them that thousands of hours of actual open carry are documented, and that the "your gun will get grabbed" myth has been thoroughly debunked.
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    “He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.”--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

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    DanM wrote:
    Interceptor_Knight wrote:
    My response to this line of questioning was to inquire if there is a rash of people trying to disarm police officers in the city and how many instances of this have occured in the past.
    Or, even more to the point, inquire if there isa rash of people trying to disarm civilian open carriers.

    And, when they sputter that they don't know, point them to this website, tell them that thousands of hours of actual open carry are documented, and that the "your gun will get grabbed" myth has been thoroughly debunked.
    In the IN forum there is a member who had his firearm that didn't have active retention removed from him without his consent or knowledge at a range from a man behind him.

    In IN a man in Indianapolis had his firearm taken away from him in a shoulder holster. He was able to use his second firearm to attack the man who took his firearm.

    both of these incidents took place just over the past few months. It does happen and will happen again. Active retention and training are required and are more important while open carrying over concealed carry.

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    There is, I believe, a standing offer of a reward for documentation of a successful gun grab from a civilian, here on OCDO.

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    Passive101 wrote:
    In the IN forum there is a member who had his firearm that didn't have active retention removed from him without his consent or knowledge at a range from a man behind him.

    In IN a man in Indianapolis had his firearm taken away from him in a shoulder holster. He was able to use his second firearm to attack the man who took his firearm.

    both of these incidents took place just over the past few months. It does happen and will happen again. Active retention and training are required and are more important while open carrying over concealed carry.
    You can't fix stupid. They probably let their kids play in traffic also.... Some people just do not think.
    No gun for you... one year.....

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    Finally!, It is about time someone takes a stand and fights the legal fight in court that will hopefully get the attention of ignorant police officers all over the state.
    If even half of the people viewing this forum were to "kick in" a little money, and ask others to do likewise, many more cases like this one and likemine would be fought in courts. It is apparently too much to ask lawyers to work pro bono or on a contingency fee (which, due to the small awards usually awarded, is tantamount to pro bono). I have asked every lawyer in the Denver area who is listed on the Cobar website as practicing Constitutional law/civil rights. No takers. Friends of mine have appealed to many others. No takers.

    Can't blame the lawyers. It's is not their personal fight. It is up to us - we who profess to care about the right of the people to keep and bear arms.

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    Kidz are 'traffic'!

    A great work out is 'Ride the Connector'. How many circuits of the James Island Connector (built to interstate standards but a mere state hiway) can you make from 1700 to 1800 on a bicycle?

    Or; I bicycled Fl-200 from US-17 to FL-A1A in drive time towing a BOB trailer with no problems.

    The conspiracy of ignorance masquerades as common sense.

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    Kids are merely speed bumps.....

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    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    Passive101 wrote:
    DanM wrote:
    Interceptor_Knight wrote:
    My response to this line of questioning was to inquire if there is a rash of people trying to disarm police officers in the city and how many instances of this have occured in the past.
    Or, even more to the point, inquire if there isa rash of people trying to disarm civilian open carriers.

    And, when they sputter that they don't know, point them to this website, tell them that thousands of hours of actual open carry are documented, and that the "your gun will get grabbed" myth has been thoroughly debunked.
    In the IN forum . . .
    Link to fact-based sources please (news reports, online police reports, etc.).

    Plus, even if true, two incidentsout of the thousands,tens of thousands, or whatever numerous numberof hours of open carry annuallythere are do not pull the myth of the "problem" of your gun being grabbed from the jaws ofdebunkment.

    The fear that OC'ers guns will be grabbed is overblown to the point of ridiculousness.
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    “He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.”--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

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    May be overblown, but it is far from a myth. It has happened in every state at some time including security, LE, and civilian.

    The article used to be at indystar.com, but the link isn't working right now. Here is the thread on it.

    http://ingunowners.com/forums/carry_...gun_fight.html



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    opencarrybilly wrote:
    Finally!, It is about time someone takes a stand and fights the legal fight in court that will hopefully get the attention of ignorant police officers all over the state.
    If even half of the people viewing this forum were to "kick in" a little money, and ask others to do likewise, many more cases like this one and likemine would be fought in courts. It is apparently too much to ask lawyers to work pro bono or on a contingency fee (which, due to the small awards usually awarded, is tantamount to pro bono). I have asked every lawyer in the Denver area who is listed on the Cobar website as practicing Constitutional law/civil rights. No takers. Friends of mine have appealed to many others. No takers.

    Can't blame the lawyers. It's is not their personal fight. It is up to us - we who profess to care about the right of the people to keep and bear arms.
    Good points.

    What Wisconsin really needs is somebody willing to take the fall at trial and then get one of these Disorderly Conduct cases up on appeal. If all goes well, we will get some good binding appellate precedent.After that, if there is another of thesearrests, the officers willhave a lot more trouble claiming qualified immunity.

    That will give OC some teeth in Wiscconsin.

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    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    Passive101 wrote:
    May be overblown, but it is far from a myth.
    The myth spoken of is the one anti-OC'ers trot out about the probability of an OC'ers gun being grabbed. It's right up there with their myth about the probability that OC'ers will cause people to go running and screaming and calling the police. Or the myth about the probability that OC'ers will harm the RKBA because their guns are visible andpeople that that offends will call their politicians to enact more gun-control.

    Anti-OC'ers speak of those as if they are probable things to be reckoned with. That is the myth.

    Possible: yes.

    Probable or something to worry about: myth.

    I'm sorry if I wasn't clear. It is not a myth that such things are possible . . . anything is possible. It IS a myth that such things are some kind of statistically significant problem to be concerned about and to be against OC. Thanks for the link, by the way.
    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    “He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.”--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

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    I was just sent a copy of the call made to the police. I do not have any way to put it on the web at this time though. I do have the file. If anyone would like a copy, just give me your e-mail address, and I'll send it to ya. The info that the cop gives out is just a joke. She (the cop) sounds like she hadno idea of OC law at all. Or, maybe the Madison cops do know the law, and just don't want to follow it?...

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