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Thread: Legal to carry w/ an armed guard license on an unarmed site?

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    If you're employed by a private security contracting agency, and you have your armed guard card, is it legal to carry while on duty, if you're site is specifically mentioned as an "unarmed site"?

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    Depends on the state or municipality. There are some places where the duty weapon is not personally owned but kept at the employer's or client's location. In those situations they issue it when you report for duty. Look into the Heller case circumstances for instance to see how state and local laws have an impact on this situation. It is a mess.

    As someone mentioned earlier, insurance companies are heavily involved in thisprocess due to liability issues. This is one reason that so many companies prefer hiring off-duty officers or even arranging their "security services" through anoffice of the PD itself. In many instances the PD even handles billing and scheduling of staff, includingsupervisors.



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    Regular Member j2l3's Avatar
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    Legal vs permitted by the security company are two different things. If it is specifically an "unarmed" site, then you can probably expect to eb disciplined or terminated if your company fionds you armed when you are not supposed to be. Usually if it's an "unarmed" site, that is the contract with the site and is not optional.
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    j2l3 wrote:
    Usually if it's an "unarmed" site, that is the contract with the site and is not optional.
    +1 The client hired an unarmed officer. Many of those facilities will have no firearm policies as well.

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    Regular Member jbone's Avatar
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    Aaron1124 wrote:
    If you're employed by a private security contracting agency, and you have your armed guard card, is it legal to carry while on duty, if you're site is specifically mentioned as an "unarmed site"?
    I've been asking myself the same question. Most guards I've spoken with have stated they'd rather be disciplined or be fired,than DEAD.
    Im proudly straight. I'm free to not support Legalization, GLBT, Illegal Aliens, or the Islamization of America.

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    jbone wrote:
    Aaron1124 wrote:
    If you're employed by a private security contracting agency, and you have your armed guard card, is it legal to carry while on duty, if you're site is specifically mentioned as an "unarmed site"?
    I've been asking myself the same question. Most guards I've spoken with have stated they'd rather be disciplined or be fired,than DEAD.
    Then again, a security guard willingly takes a position as being unarmed.

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    Does not matter if the law says it is legal.

    If a guard accepts the position as "unarmed" and then carries while working in the "unarmed" position he has violated the conditions of employment and is subject to disciplinary action from his employer. Does not matter if the law says it is legal.

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    Trigger Dr wrote:
    Does not matter if the law says it is legal.

    If a guard accepts the position as "unarmed" and then carries while working in the "unarmed" position he has violated the conditions of employment and is subject to disciplinary action from his employer. Does not matter if the law says it is legal.
    That goes for any employee of any agency that restricts their employees of carrying.

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    Aaron1124 wrote:
    Trigger Dr wrote:
    Does not matter if the law says it is legal.

    If a guard accepts the position as "unarmed" and then carries while working in the "unarmed" position he has violated the conditions of employment and is subject to disciplinary action from his employer. Does not matter if the law says it is legal.
    That goes for any employee of any agency that restricts their employees of carrying.
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    A Guard can make the choices: Get trained up on other none lethal devices and carry those, they can canqiut if not comfortable being unarmed in some of the **** holes that guard services will send them, or, violate the contract/employer and carry in areas that warrant it for safety.

    A guard is a private citizen with the right to protect themselves. Your supervisor is not going to show up and search you or your vehicle, you would have to give consent for that. So, in those area's you guard where everyone one has a weapon except you!it's an individual choice.


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    Too bad it's illegal to actually carry one if you don't have your armed guard license.

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    see, this is what i mean. everyone is always looking for some excuse to carry when they obviously arent suppose to. most gun owners are dumb hillbilly faqqots. a weapon like a sword, that actually takes skill to use is much more badas$

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    U8Dust wrote:
    see, this is what i mean. everyone is always looking for some excuse to carry when they obviously arent suppose to. most gun owners are dumb hillbilly faqqots. a weapon like a sword, that actually takes skill to use is much more badas$
    Troll.

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    Can't someone kick this guy off of the site, or freeze his posting privileges or something?

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    U8Dust wrote:
    see, this is what i mean. everyone is always looking for some excuse to carry when they obviously arent suppose to. most gun owners are dumb hillbilly faqqots. a weapon like a sword, that actually takes skill to use is much more badas$
    Man, I needed a good laugh. Thanks.

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    Aaron1124 wrote:
    Too bad it's illegal to actually carry one if you don't have your armed guard license.
    Did you find a law saying it wasilegal?
    Im proudly straight. I'm free to not support Legalization, GLBT, Illegal Aliens, or the Islamization of America.

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    jbone wrote:
    Aaron1124 wrote:
    Too bad it's illegal to actually carry one if you don't have your armed guard license.
    Did you find a law saying it wasilegal?
    I believe someone else on here posted the law. I can't remember which thread it is on though.

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    Regular Member jbone's Avatar
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    found this yesterday, made me a believer.

    RCW 18.170.160 Licenses required — Use of public law enforcement insignia prohibited — Penalties — Enforcement.
    (4) After June 30, 1992, a person is guilty of a gross misdemeanor if he or she performs the functions and duties of an armed private security guard in this state unless the person holds a valid armed private security guard license issued by the department.
    Im proudly straight. I'm free to not support Legalization, GLBT, Illegal Aliens, or the Islamization of America.

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    Aaron1124 wrote:
    Too bad it's illegal to actually carry one if you don't have your armed guard license.
    And not just carry. It is illegal to have on your persons, in a bag, or in your vehicle if any of those listed are on the site you are currently employed as security at.

    Example: You park your car in the business parking lot. It is considered on site and with in your control. Illegal.

    Example 2: You park at the public parking lot across the street from your posted site. It is off site property and deemed not in your control. Legal.

    This came into play when one of my security officers was going through LEO Academy and it begun right after his shift at work. He needed his firearm since he had to go right to academy, we did some digging and found as long as parked his vehicle off client property it was okay.

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    David.Car wrote:
    Aaron1124 wrote:
    Too bad it's illegal to actually carry one if you don't have your armed guard license.
    And not just carry. It is illegal to have on your persons, in a bag, or in your vehicle if any of those listed are on the site you are currently employed as security at.

    Example: You park your car in the business parking lot. It is considered on site and with in your control. Illegal.

    Example 2: You park at the public parking lot across the street from your posted site. It is off site property and deemed not in your control. Legal.

    This came into play when one of my security officers was going through LEO Academy and it begun right after his shift at work. He needed his firearm since he had to go right to academy, we did some digging and found as long as parked his vehicle off client property it was okay.
    I still think it's B.S. that the state regulates carrying while on the job. It should be left up to the discretion of the employer. I use to work Security for a private business... I always carried while I was on duty, and I don't have a guard license at all.

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    I figured it was probably very important to add that WA requires by LAW that all armed security officers are to carry a firearm that is issued to them by their employer.

    So even if you have an armed license, and even if you are working an armed site. DO NOT take your own personal firearm onto a work site.


    Edit: RCW Quote for the non believers who would have demanded it any ways.

    RCW 18.170.050 Armed private security guard license authority - Registration of firearms.

    (1) An armed private security guard license grants authority to the holder, while in the performance of his or her duties, to carry a firearm with which the holder has met the proficiency requirements established by the commission.

    (2) All firearms carried by armed private security guards in the performance of their duties must be owned or leased by the employer and, if required by law, must be registered with the proper government agency.

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    The business I worked for was a retail chain...it wasn't a security company. My employer said that as long as I had my CPL he didn't care if I carried.

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    Aaron1124 wrote:
    The business I worked for was a retail chain...it wasn't a security company. My employer said that as long as I had my CPL he didn't care if I carried.

    Now lets distinguish this. In that instance you were working directly for the client and not a security company. At that point you are what we call "In-House Security". As such you do not fall under the RCW description as a security officer.

    You are not required to have a security license. And you do not follow under the same laws.

    At that point you are just considered a general employee of the company and fall under their policies and also are their problem and liability.


    Edit: RCW listing again.

    RCW 18.180.020 Exemptions

    The requirements of this chapter do not apply to:

    (1) A person who is employed exclusively or regularly by one employer and performs the functions of a private security guard solely in connection with the affairs of that employer, if the employer is not a private security company;

    Edit Again: Basically they are distinguishing between Insured and Licensed security companies, and you working in house at a bar or casino. Someone at a security company can work at vast amount of places and scenarios and it is the states desire to hold them to a higher standard and hold them and the security company at a higher level of responsibility.

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    David.Car wrote:
    (2) All firearms carried by armed private security guards in the performance of their duties must be owned or leased by the employer and, if required by law, must be registered with the proper government agency.
    So the Guard company could lease my firearm if I perferred to qual and carry my own, in case thier weapons were lesser?
    Im proudly straight. I'm free to not support Legalization, GLBT, Illegal Aliens, or the Islamization of America.

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    jbone wrote:
    David.Car wrote:
    (2) All firearms carried by armed private security guards in the performance of their duties must be owned or leased by the employer and, if required by law, must be registered with the proper government agency.
    So the Guard company could lease my firearm if I perferred to qual and carry my own, in case thier weapons were lesser?
    What it means is the security company either must buy and own the firearms, or lease them from a firearm supplier. There isn't any security company, as far as I know, thatwouldpay you to rent your firearm for their company, and thenissue itback to you.

    Some smaller name security companies might do some fancy footwork to make your private firearm appear to be one of their own, or they might just not care and let you. But if you ended up using it the state would definitly check to see if the company owned it or leased it from a firearms supply location and that could lead to problems.

    Edit: I haven't ever dealt with any WA security officers who were able to use their own firearms. Idaho yes.


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