Man killed outside Tucson bar

imported post

http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/hourlyupdate/307830.php

"A man was shot to death during an altercation outside a bar on Tucson’s east side.The shooting happened after 11 p.m. at the Cow Pony, 6510 E. Tanque Verde Rd., near East Wrightstown and North Pantano roads.The 27-year-old victim was taken to a hospital where he was pronounced dead, Tucson police said in a news release early Saturday. The name of the victim was not made public."



No other details yet. I was out on the town last night, showed up there about 1145, not long after it apparently happened. Parking lot was taped off, about a dozen pluscruisers in the area. Bar was closed, of course. If they are open tonight, I'll try to get some better detail, I know some of the folks who work there. I hope to God the victim wasn't someone I know. The place gets a little rowdy on occasion, but in the two years I've been going there, it never got to the point of weapons.

imported post

PavePusher wrote:

..t. I was out on the town last night, showed up there about 1145, not long after it apparently happened. Parking lot was taped off, about a dozen pluscruisers in the area. Bar was closed, of course. If they are open tonight, I'll try to get some better detail, I know some of the folks who work there. I hope to God the victim wasn't someone I know. The place gets a little rowdy on occasion, but in the two years I've been going there, it never got to the point of weapons.

Click to expand...

Were you armed when going to the bar last night?

imported post

Thisis, correction,WASmy cousin. We are all deeply upset by the events that have happened and may God have mercy on his killer as there will be none from me. Why would ANYONE carry guns around as toys??? He was my baby cousin! My LITTLE BABY COUSIN! He's not even originally from that area! He had a wife that he deeply loved. My son adored him. And now what do we have left? A family and friends wondering why... Through everything horrible in life we went through, this is how it ends for him.

I could go on and on, about who he is, and everything, but I'm not about to release any information that would corrupt any investigation. I just had to get this little bit off my chest as my baby cousin will never be able to again.

imported post

Rae wrote:

Thisis, correction,WASmy cousin. We are all deeply upset by the events that have happened and may God have mercy on his killer as there will be none from me. Why would ANYONE carry guns around as toys??? He was my baby cousin! My LITTLE BABY COUSIN! He's not even originally from that area! He had a wife that he deeply loved. My son adored him. And now what do we have left? A family and friends wondering why... Through everything horrible in life we went through, this is how it ends for him.

I could go on and on, about who he is, and everything, but I'm not about to release any information that would corrupt any investigation. I just had to get this little bit off my chest as my baby cousin will never be able to again.

Click to expand...

Sorry to read about your loss.

What is his name? What happened?

imported post

Rae wrote:

Thisis, correction,WASmy cousin. We are all deeply upset by the events that have happened and may God have mercy on his killer as there will be none from me. Why would ANYONE carry guns around as toys??? He was my baby cousin! My LITTLE BABY COUSIN! He's not even originally from that area! He had a wife that he deeply loved. My son adored him. And now what do we have left? A family and friends wondering why... Through everything horrible in life we went through, this is how it ends for him.

I could go on and on, about who he is, and everything, but I'm not about to release any information that would corrupt any investigation. I just had to get this little bit off my chest as my baby cousin will never be able to again.

Click to expand...

??? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?

imported post

HankT wrote:

PavePusher wrote:

..t. I was out on the town last night, showed up there about 1145, not long after it apparently happened. Parking lot was taped off, about a dozen pluscruisers in the area. Bar was closed, of course. If they are open tonight, I'll try to get some better detail, I know some of the folks who work there. I hope to God the victim wasn't someone I know. The place gets a little rowdy on occasion, but in the two years I've been going there, it never got to the point of weapons.

Click to expand...

Were you armed when going to the bar last night?

Click to expand...

I was while in my vehicle, but locked my sidearm in the vehicle safe when I got there. I was going to have a few beers and catch a ride home with friends or taxi. Ido not drink/drive or drink/carry. Period.

I normally would have been there early enough to see everything, but I was supposed to meet a friend at another location beforehand.(He didn't show. So I guess I owe him for keeping me out of the incident.)

Well, after that I went to a few other places, all were very un-busy for some reason. Ended up not having any alcohol until I got home and secured everything.



Rae, my condolences for your loss.I just don't know what to say.

imported post

Rae,

It may be difficult to hear this, but your cousin, still is your cousin. He has gone to a place of perfection, were there is no malice held toward others, not even the person who took him from his family. You will most likely not be able to keep from hating the person who did this, but try to remember that in the grand scheme of things, the separation from your cousin is only temporary. You have my deepest condolences, and my family will pray that the Lord will comfort you and your family in this time of need.

imported post

I loved Shawn dearly. And for him to survive the Iraq war and have a Purple Heart to die this way makes it more stupid and senseless.We're in Iowa and I can't be in Arizona now. Hopefully his father and grandmother can bring him back soon so we can have the proper burial for him.

Shawn and I grew up so close. Had such a hard life together. We had our own private jokes to make each other feel better.

Please keep me posted

imported post

Hard to tell yet who was the bad guy. Both the victim and the assailant(s) had firearms.

Developing...




Gang detectives investigating deadly shooting outside bar

(September 6, 2009)


Gang detectives are investigating a deadly shooting outside a Tucson bar.

It happened about 10:30 p.m. Friday at the Cow Pony on Tanque Verde, near Pantano Road.

Police say several people jumped a 24-year-old man in front of the bar.

During the fight, officers say the victim pulled out a gun and shot one of his attackers.

Police say that man, 27-year-old Shawn Conrad, died at University Medical Center.

No one's been arrested.

http://www.kvoa.com/Global/story.asp?S=11082202&nav=menu216_2





Comments:

Guest: Shawn the show lolol now he is putting on a show at the funeral home. The Pony is full of douchers who think they run that place. I'm always glad to hear about a little justice.

btw ya it was self defense but like the other dude stated, you are not allowed to bring guns into bars. Maybe the other guest should read the laws a little bit instead of giving us links lol.
Today, 3:40:29 AM

Guest: If you had a firearm and a group attacked you what would you do? He wasnt fighting just one person it was a group. And yes there are laws about discharging a weapon in public but only when not in self defense and in the city. It is legal to defend yourself if attacked and you are in fear for you life according to Arizona Revised Statues. For example if someone walked up and pushed you it is not legal to shoot them, but if they walked up hit you and kept hiting you like in this case and you were losing and were in fear for your life if the attack was not stopped you are justified in using deadly force. If anyone wants to read more on the laws reguarding self defense go to the Tucson Police Department website and click on the tab that says laws. It will give you up to date Arizona laws on self defense and other laws. Think about this he was being attacked and pulled his firearm and shoot another in self defense and then the attack was stopped and he quit shooting.
Today, 1:24:13 AM

Guest: Im sure there is some charge, also your not allowed to bear arms in bars for people who dont know that, I heard this story on the news, the name sounded familiar.., i dont go to the pony, however i hear things,,,,,. i hear a group of people try and run that bar... Territorial like... and the man who got shot i hear, is responsible for alot of negative activity that happens at that establishment..., i heard his group of peeps would always pick fights for no reason and people behind the bar would not say anything cuz he is a regualr.., He is notorious for the name, "Shawn the show.." cuz he always puts on a show, or so they say... KARMA--


Guest: Souncs like clear cut self defense to me too.. but there is much more to the story that hasn't been released yet.. Why do you think gang detectives are handling this and not homicide... hmmm?
Today, 12:41:34 AM

yeah: I guess your too stupid to read the damned article, so allow me to re-iterate, the VICTIM was jumped by several people, & when that happened he pulled out a gun & shot one of his attackers. I bet they all ran like hell when he did that. With all the shootings that happen at bars & stripclubs in Tucson lately, that should give you all a perfect indication what kind of people frequent these establishments. Enjoy!
Today, 12:14:42

Guest: Since when it is okay to pull a gun and shoot into a crowd? Aren't there laws against discharging a weapon in public? How can this shooter not be held accountable?

me: I was at the bar when this happened. They asked everyone for ID before they would let us out of the building.
Yesterday, 8:57:14 PM

Rick in tucson: Sounds like a clear case of self defence

imported post

I reckon the 'Show's' over. A thug is a thug is a thug.

imported post

Latest update:

http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/crime/307889

"Here is Lopez's account of what happened:

Conrad and several other men got into an altercation with a 24-year-old man.
Conrad and the other men assaulted the 24-year-old, Lopez said. One of the men had a weapon, Lopez said, but she would not say what type.
The 24-year-old pulled out a handgun and shot Conrad, Lopez said.
No arrests have been made, as it appears the victim acted in self-defense, she said."




Not much more at the actual article.

ETA: Went I went back on Saturday night, no-one knew anything (seems to have occured entirely in the parking lot) or they simply weren't talking (understandable).

imported post

perhaps this should be moved to the "Tales of Self Defense" forum?

imported post

PavePusher wrote:

Went I went back on Saturday night, no-one knew anything (seems to have occured entirely in the parking lot) or they simply weren't talking (understandable).

Click to expand...

Was this man there?

imported post

:lol: O.K., you got me there.

imported post

AZkopper wrote:

perhaps this should be moved to the "Tales of Self Defense" forum?

Click to expand...

Good question, but since the details are so sketchy yet, I'd say let it ride until we know more.

imported post

I got a feelin' somebody brought a knife to a gunfight.

imported post

PavePusher wrote:

AZkopper wrote:

perhaps this should be moved to the "Tales of Self Defense" forum?

Click to expand...

Good question, but since the details are so sketchy yet, I'd say let it ride until we know more.

Click to expand...

Self-defense? Against this chap?


http://js-kit.com/blob/oZ_0DrGNapOrkXncu_hQIh.jpg



Here's the most current comment on the story at the KVOA story page:

Guest: The guy who shot and killed a decorated war veteran was wearing a gang symbol on his clothing. The war veteran that died was NOT wearing any gang symbols on his clothing. The war veteran had no gun. The decorated war veteran had no record to speak of. The guy who shot him is a petty criminal. The guy who fired the shot was illegally carrying a concealed weapon in a bar. Both felonies. What is wrong with the world we live in? How can you people assume you know what happened EVEN IF YOU SAW IT at that nasty bar? The only people who know the truth are the dead man and the man that pulled the trigger. Why don't you arrest the drunk gang member with the gun PLEASE? I really don't care what he get's charged with, murder or jay-walking, just get the trigger happy drunk guy with the gang symbols on his clothing and the illegal firearm OFF THE STREET. Motorcycle "gangs" are less of a public menace than our own law enforcement officers. They certainly are welcomed when they contribute to local charities and city events. Some of our officers are more of a criminal than this dead young man you are all so ready to trash and judge. Read about all the dui's? Abuse of power? Bogus charges? Harassment of the citizens of this city to fund the haggard budget by burying us under unnecessary fines? You people are clearly confused about who the criminals are. I will take the worst character from any of these groups made my neighbor over at least half of our local government and police. I'm sick of crooks making decisions. I am freaked to death that there is some John Wayne jerk out there starting fights in bars and shooting a gun off when he can't finish what he started. No wonder I don't go out at all anymore and won't even have a drink at all. This is how people act when alcohol and drama join forces. And then after the worst happened, you all speak ill of a dead man and unquestioningly accept this murderer into society. He took a man's life over a bar fight. I doubt he was in genuine risk of losing his life. If he didn't want his butt whipped he should have been sober and somewhere else. Same goes for the young man that died. Everyone could have made better choices.
Today, 7:19:09 PM

imported post

HankT wrote:

PavePusher wrote:

AZkopper wrote:

perhaps this should be moved to the "Tales of Self Defense" forum?

Click to expand...

Good question, but since the details are so sketchy yet, I'd say let it ride until we know more.

Click to expand...

Self-defense? Against this chap?


http://js-kit.com/blob/oZ_0DrGNapOrkXncu_hQIh.jpg



Here's the most current comment on the story at the KVOA story page:

Guest: The guy who shot and killed a decorated war veteran was wearing a gang symbol on his clothing. The war veteran that died was NOT wearing any gang symbols on his clothing. The war veteran had no gun. The decorated war veteran had no record to speak of. The guy who shot him is a petty criminal. The guy who fired the shot was illegally carrying a concealed weapon in a bar. Both felonies (wrong). What is wrong with the world we live in? How can you people assume you know what happened EVEN IF YOU SAW IT at that nasty bar? The only people who know the truth are the dead man and the man that pulled the trigger (and apparently the dead guys 5 or 6 friends, who attacked the shooter). Why don't you arrest the drunk gang member with the gun PLEASE?(because self-defense is legal here in AZ?)I really don't care what he get's charged with, murder or jay-walking, just get the trigger happy drunk guy with the gang symbols on his clothing and the illegal firearm OFF THE STREET (you want people arrested for jaywalking?). Motorcycle "gangs" are less of a public menace than our own law enforcement officers (so why rag on bikers in the first half of your post?). They certainly are welcomed when they contribute to local charities and city events. Some of our officers are more of a criminal than this dead young man you are all so ready to trash and judge. Read about all the dui's? Abuse of power? Bogus charges? Harassment of the citizens of this city to fund the haggard budget by burying us under unnecessary fines? You people are clearly confused about who the criminals are. I will take the worst character from any of these groups made my neighbor over at least half of our local government and police. I'm sick of crooks making decisions (is this 357, perhaps?). I am freaked to death that there is some John Wayne jerk out there starting fights in bars and shooting a gun off when he can't finish what he started (ok, now we'e back to bikers are bad, I guess). No wonder I don't go out at all anymore and won't even have a drink at all. This is how people act when alcohol and drama join forces. And then after the worst happened, you all speak ill of a dead man and unquestioningly accept this murderer into society. He took a man's life over a bar fight (Yeah, a real citizen would have let 5 or 6 goons beat the tar out of him and possibly killed him!). I doubt he was in genuine risk of losing his life. If he didn't want his butt whipped he should have been sober and somewhere else. (wow, I thought here in America we had the right to go in to a bar and have a drink) Same goes for the young man that died. Everyone could have made better choices.
Today, 7:19:09 PM

Click to expand...

imported post

From the sketchy news reports, so far, it sounds like "baby cousin Shawn" may not have been so "innocent" in this event. I'll reserve further judgment until I read more details that ahve been confirmed.

imported post

Task Force 16 wrote:

I'll reserve further judgment until I read more details that ahve been confirmed.

Click to expand...

same here.

but i will say that gang activity in the military (mostly army and marines) is becoming a problem, and i know a couple "decorated war veterans" that are total sht bags. most people in the military are very cool though dont get me wrong but whenever you put a bunch of guys together you always have the risk of something bad happening. and from what the media is saying (especially with no arrest due to it looking like self defense) shawn wasnt the victim here. either way its a very bad incident and hopefully it wont make you go to the anti-gun side