Man killed outside Tucson bar

CA_Libertarian · Sep 9, 2009

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HankT wrote:

Here's the most current comment on the story at the KVOA story page:

Guest: The guy who shot and killed a decorated war veteran was wearing a gang symbol on his clothing. The war veteran that died was NOT wearing any gang symbols on his clothing. The war veteran had no gun. The decorated war veteran had no record to speak of. The guy who shot him is a petty criminal. The guy who fired the shot was illegally carrying a concealed weapon in a bar. Both felonies. What is wrong with the world we live in? How can you people assume you know what happened EVEN IF YOU SAW IT at that nasty bar? The only people who know the truth are the dead man and the man that pulled the trigger. Why don't you arrest the drunk gang member with the gun PLEASE? I really don't care what he get's charged with, murder or jay-walking, just get the trigger happy drunk guy with the gang symbols on his clothing and the illegal firearm OFF THE STREET. Motorcycle "gangs" are less of a public menace than our own law enforcement officers. They certainly are welcomed when they contribute to local charities and city events. Some of our officers are more of a criminal than this dead young man you are all so ready to trash and judge. Read about all the dui's? Abuse of power? Bogus charges? Harassment of the citizens of this city to fund the haggard budget by burying us under unnecessary fines? You people are clearly confused about who the criminals are. I will take the worst character from any of these groups made my neighbor over at least half of our local government and police. I'm sick of crooks making decisions. I am freaked to death that there is some John Wayne jerk out there starting fights in bars and shooting a gun off when he can't finish what he started. No wonder I don't go out at all anymore and won't even have a drink at all. This is how people act when alcohol and drama join forces. And then after the worst happened, you all speak ill of a dead man and unquestioningly accept this murderer into society. He took a man's life over a bar fight. I doubt he was in genuine risk of losing his life. If he didn't want his butt whipped he should have been sober and somewhere else. Same goes for the young man that died. Everyone could have made better choices.
Today, 7:19:09 PM

This "Guest" poster's story seems a bit fishy. Can anybody verify the bolded?

I seem to remember AZ being rather lenient on CC without a permit, like a small fine with no jail time... or maybe that was something that was proposed and didn't pass.

And is it really a FELONY to carry in a bar? (My last trip to AZ in 2007 I unwittingly open carried into a bar/grill establishment. Even CA doesn't have a specific prohibition against carrying in a bar... I can't imagine AZ would have it as a felony...)

Dahwg · Sep 9, 2009

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The Plot Thickens...

http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/crime/308249

A 31-year-old man has been arrested in connection with the fatal shooting outside an east-side bar, police said Tuesday.

John Majalca was involved with others in an assault Friday night of a 24-year-old man outside the bar, according to a news release from the Tucson Police Department.

During the assault, the victim pulled out a firearm and shot one of his assailants, police said.

Majalca is facing charges of aggravated assault with serious injury or dangerous instrument, attempted aggravated robbery, attempted armed robbery and first-degree murder.

He is facing the murder charge under the state's felony-murder rule. Arizona law allows those involved in the commission of a felony that results in the death of another person to be held responsible for the death.

The fight left Shawn Conrad, 27, dead of gunshot wounds.
Conrad was involved in the fight in the parking lot of the Cow Pony Bar, 6510 E. Tanque Verde Road, said Sgt. Diana Lopez, a police spokeswoman.

Here is Lopez's account of what happened:
Conrad and several other men got into an altercation with a 24-year-old man.

Conrad and the other men assaulted the 24-year-old, Lopez said. One of the men had a weapon, Lopez said, but she would not say what type.
The 24-year-old pulled out a handgun and shot Conrad, Lopez said.

A search-warrant document filed in connection with the case shows police recovered hatchets, a stun gun and several hammers from a property in the 3600 block of South Eighth Avenue. Also recovered were a belt buckle and shirt with "81" on them. This number can refer to the Hells Angels motorcycle gang.

Police would not say if Majalca or any of the others involved are members of the gang.

Gang detectives are investigating the shooting.

Majalca was sentenced in 2004 to 2.5 years in state prison for weapons misconduct, according to the Arizona Department of Corrections Web site. He was released in 2006.

Sonora Rebel · Sep 9, 2009

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'Radio said this morning that they were attempting to rob the 24 yr old guy in the parking lot. Since it occurred outside of the bar... there's no telling where the gun was prior... on him or in his vehicle. I do believe somebody flashed a blade 'n that's all she wrote.

That's two less BG's on the street to worry about.

HankT · Sep 9, 2009

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Sounds like da boyz picked the wrong guy to rob.

Poor Rae....this is gonna break her little heart.

ixtow · Sep 10, 2009

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I'll also reserve judgment, but so far it is looking like 'my poor baby' got what he deserved.... I could be wrong, lets wait and see.

With the new carry law being fresh, it is no wonder that the media will try to with hold data and twist this to look like some CCer just 'went nuts.' It would suit them to spread that kind of fud.

Wearing a uniform doesn't make him a saint. There are plenty of police officers that have proven that matter. If he threatened someone, and got what he deserved for it; I have no pity, don't care what uniform he wears.

But so far, we've really got little to go on....

HankT · Sep 13, 2009

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ixtow wrote:

Wearing a uniform doesn't make him a saint. There are plenty of police officers that have proven that matter. If he threatened someone, and got what he deserved for it; I have no pity, don't care what uniform he wears.

Same with non-LEOs.

However, more non-LEOs servicemen have tarnished their uniformed service than LEOs have. That's because there are way more of them.

The uniformed service drops out as a predictor variable for abuse of power--both formalized power and informal interpersonal power.

Character, education, temperment and cognitive abilityare more likely variables that would explain power abuse.

RJ · Sep 13, 2009

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The whole deal is a bummer,
But most likely the actual facts and truth won't be printed for the public to see, for fear of putting someone in a good light, especially if they were gun owners.
Regardless, the public preception will be a bunch of drunks getting into an OK corral type deal and thats that.
Shame really as if treated properly it may save someone from going thru this same scenario.

This is water under the bridge with a embellished story arriving from both sides to fight off the negativity.
rj

Task Force 16 · Sep 13, 2009

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Could one of the military veterens explain what this term "decorated" actually means?I thinkthat service personal who participate in "in theator" combat tactical ops recieve campaign ribbons. Commendation metals are sometimes awarded to entire units as well as individuals.

I'm just wondering how much does one have to wear on their uniform to be considered "decorated"? And does any of it have to be for individual commendation?

Sonora Rebel · Sep 13, 2009

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Decorated is a term that sort'a went by the wayside in the Navy I was in... but perhaps the Army still uses it. Generally it refers to Personal Combat Awards as opposed to the gedunk BTDT (Been there, done that)Campaign 'n Expeditionary medals that 'everybody' gets.

These would be such asMedal of Honor, Navy Cross, Silver Star, Bronze Star, Distinguished Flying Cross, Air Medal, Navy Achievement medal w/Combat V, Purple Heart, Combat Action Ribbon. Then there's the Navy/Marine Corps Lifesaving medal which is a decoration not necessarily awarded in combat. The Good Conduct medal is a personal award as well, but I've never heard it referred to as a decoration.

I wasn't a Personnelman (PN) or Yeoman (YN) (they prepared the correspondance on such things). I was a knuckle draggin' gun plumber AO. (Aviation Ordnanceman)The Army has different names for their corresponing levels of awards.

RJ · Sep 13, 2009

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Decorated

and

Served

are words that can be interepeted anyway one wishes too.
And sometimes used all too often for the wrong meaning.
IMO
rj

Sonora Rebel · Sep 13, 2009

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I omitted all the 'Unit Citations'... but , these too could be considered 'decorations' in that sense. Presidential Unit Citation, Navy Unit Citation, Navy Unit Commendation, 'Vietnam Gallentry Cross w/palm/anchor, Civic Actions 'n a whole grunch of stuff to be worn as a framed ribbon. The Gallentry Cross was also awwarded as an individual award... which would be a 'decoration'.

Task Force 16 · Sep 13, 2009

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Thanks guys.

As stated before, being "decorated" doesn't necessarily mean allot about a persons morals. "Pappy" Boyington was "decorated", too, but had a notorious reputation as a drunk and a brawler as well.

HankT · Sep 13, 2009

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Sonora Rebel wrote:

I omitted all the 'Unit Citations'... but , these too could be considered 'decorations' in that sense. Presidential Unit Citation, Navy Unit Citation, Navy Unit Commendation, 'Vietnam Gallentry Cross w/palm/anchor, Civic Actions 'n a whole grunch of stuff to be worn as a framed ribbon. The Gallentry Cross was also awwarded as an individual award... which would be a 'decoration'.

Gawd, this is beginning to sound like a John Kerry deal...

Sonora Rebel · Sep 13, 2009

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John Kerry is a collossal fraud. I couldn't begin to go into detail what some people actuallydid to be so recognized. Some are never recognized as there are no surviving witnesses. 'Ever been combatmilitary Hank T? If not... don't pretend to know.

ixtow · Sep 13, 2009

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Isn't it amazing how the Media paints the military as useless crap; except when trying to make gun owners look bad. then, all of a sudden "Decorated Combat Veteran Gunned Down Mercilessly and in Cold Blood By Some Drunken Maniac Gun Owner With A PERMIT!!"

Gunned? Has anyone ever been knifed? Or if you were run over by a car, does that make you 'cared?'

Stupid propagandists, and the even more stupid people who hang on their every word....

jewilliquers · Sep 18, 2009

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dude, if I was you I would shut my mouth about the whole thing unless you know every detail about it. Personally I think you are totally out of line for assuming most of what happen the night of the shooting. I have room to talk because unfortunately i witnessed the whole thing. I was doing a ride-along with a police officer that night and we were next door at a restaurant dealing with a drunk man when the shooting had happened. Yes, both men involved where gang members, yet the main who had got shot and killed that night came all the way down from california to find this man. The biker guy who got killed was with two other crew members and found this other guy at the bar and attacked him with hammers. So, the man who was being beat up with the hammers saw that one of the bikers had a gun. So, he grabbed the mans just and shot him right under his left collar bone with no exit wound. It was the mans only attempt of survival. It was pure self-defense, which is why he was not charged with anything. So, please next time before you decide to bad mouth cops know what the bloody hell you are talking about.

Sonora Rebel · Sep 18, 2009

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jewilliquers wrote:

dude, if I was you I would shut my mouth about the whole thing unless you know every detail about it. Personally I think you are totally out of line for assuming most of what happen the night of the shooting. I have room to talk because unfortunately i witnessed the whole thing. I was doing a ride-along with a police officer that night and we were next door at a restaurant dealing with a drunk man when the shooting had happened. Yes, both men involved where gang members, yet the main who had got shot and killed that night came all the way down from california to find this man. The biker guy who got killed was with two other crew members and found this other guy at the bar and attacked him with hammers. So, the man who was being beat up with the hammers saw that one of the bikers had a gun. So, he grabbed the mans just and shot him right under his left collar bone with no exit wound. It was the mans only attempt of survival. It was pure self-defense, which is why he was not charged with anything. So, please next time before you decide to bad mouth cops know what the bloody hell you are talking about.

'Dude'... if I were you I'd remind myself of the 1st Amendment and the right to express any opinion (including those you disagree with). You should also learn to address which 'dude' you're talking to. You could have 'set the record straight' from this sketchy and misleading info, but you chose instead to attack a poster.

RJ · Sep 18, 2009

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I"m a dude, your a dude, and who gives a hoot.

You witnessed it, how can you be next door dealing with a drunk guy and witness the shooting.
Now maybe you showed up after the fact, which I'm guessing you did, but again after me just watching the Xmen, you might just be one of them mutants and be able to zap from point A to point B.

Give us a break, we are not all gullable enough to swallow a story such as that.
Goodluck with the suckers on the next one.
Sorry for being so glib, but your self righeousness doesn't cut it for me, as for anyone else, thats their problem.
Happy friday.
RJ

Kildars · Sep 18, 2009

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Sounds like "baby shawn" was attacking someone and got shot in self defense.

I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6.

Edit:

It seems like the states gun free zone in bars really prevented this crime.

PavePusher · Sep 19, 2009

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Kildars wrote:

Sounds like "baby shawn" was attacking someone and got shot in self defense.

I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6.

Edit:

It seems like the states gun free zone in bars really prevented this crime.

It actually happened outside the bar, so the whole "guns in bars" song doesn't apply.

Man killed outside Tucson bar

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