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Thread: who are the better trained?

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    which are the better trained?

    United States Navy SEALs Team 6

    or

    CIAs Special Operations Group?

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    I dunno. Seals probably. CIA is such a contradiction of terms sometimes.
    The thing about common sense is....it ain't too common.
    Will Rogers

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    U8Dust wrote:
    which are the better trained?

    United States Navy SEALs Team 6

    or

    CIAs Special Operations Group?
    That is easy-- Special Forces Operational Detachment Delta

    the CIA is a joke--there isn't an intelligent person in the Central Intelligence Agency..it is a contradiction in terms, a misnomer, it is a totally useless waste of taxpayer money which seems to want to use outside mercs for its dirty work...



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    suntzu wrote:
    U8Dust wrote:
    which are the better trained?

    United States Navy SEALs Team 6

    or

    CIAs Special Operations Group?
    That is easy-- Special Forces Operational Detachment Delta

    the CIA is a joke--there isn't an intelligent person in the Central Intelligence Agency..it is a contradiction in terms, a misnomer, it is a totally useless waste of taxpayer money which seems to want to use outside mercs for its dirty work...

    I do agree. But that wasn't one of the choices.
    The thing about common sense is....it ain't too common.
    Will Rogers

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    Obviously no one who has read this thread even knows what the CIA Special Operations Group is.

    They are the most elite special forces unit in the nation.. drafting the best of the best OF the Special Forces.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special...ities_Division

    "SAD provides the President of the United States with an option when overt military and/or diplomatic actions are not viable or politically feasible. SAD can be directly tasked by the President of the United States or the National Security Council at the President's direction. This is unlike any other U.S. special mission force. However, SAD/SOG has far fewer members than most of the other special missions units, such as Delta Force or SEAL Team Six.[6][7][8] As the action arm of the NCS, SAD/SOG conducts military direct action missions such as raids, ambushes, sabotage, assassinations,[9][10][11] and unconventional warfare (e.g. training and leading guerrilla and military units of other countries in combat). SAD/SOG also conducts special reconnaissance, that can be under either military or intelligence-driven, but is carried out by Paramilitary Operations Officers when in "denied areas".[12] SAD/SOG officers are selected exclusively from the most elite U.S. military units"

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    Please read up on this elite group before calling them a joke.

    SAD/SOG has several hundred officers, almost all of them former members of Special operations forces (SOF) and a number from the Joint Special Operations Command (JSOC)[27][/sup]. These units include the U.S. Army's Delta Force, Army Rangers, Army Special Forces, Navy SEALs, Navy DEVGRU, USMC Force Recon teams, MARSOC Marines, Air Force Combat Controllers, and Air Force Pararescuemen. The CIA's formal position for these individuals is "Paramilitary Operations Officers". These officers are then fully trained as clandestine intelligence operatives, otherwise known in the vernacular as "spies".[8][/sup] The primary strengths of SAD/SOG Paramilitary Officers are agility, adaptability, and deniability. They often operate in small teams, typically with six operators, all with extensive military special operations expertise and specialized skills that do not exist in any other unit.[8][/sup] They are also fully trained intelligence case officers with all the clandestine skills that come with that training. These officers often operate in remote locations behind enemy lines to carry out direct action (including raids and sabotage), support of espionage by HUMINT assets, counter-intelligence, sabotage, guerrilla or unconventional warfare (UW), and hostage rescue missions. Within the Special Operations Group of SAD, there are three elements. These elements are Air Branch, Maritime Branch, and Ground Branch. Together, SAD/SOG has a complete combined arms covert military. Paramilitary Operations Officers are the core of each branch and routinely move between the branches to gain expertise in all aspects of SOG. [28][/sup] As such, Paramilitary Operations Officers are trained to operate in all of these areas and environments. Because these officers are taken from the most elite units in the U.S. military and then provided with extensive additional training to be CIA clandestine intelligence officers and SAD/SOG operatives in all these environments, many U.S. security experts assess them as the elite of the U.S. special missions units.[29][/sup]
    SAD, like most of the CIA, requires a bachelor's degree to be considered for employment. Many SAD officers have Master's degrees and degrees from competitive schools.[30][/sup][31][/sup] SAD officers are trained at Camp Peary, Virginia (also known as "The Farm") and at privately owned training centers around the United States. They also train its personnel at Harvey Point, a facility outside of Hertford, North Carolina.[32][/sup][33][/sup] In addition to the twelve months of training in the Clandestine Service Trainee (CST) Program[34][/sup] to be a clandestine intelligence officer, Paramilitary Operations Officers are trained to a level of high proficiency in the use and tactics of an unusually wide degree of modern weaponry, explosive devices and firearms (foreign and domestic), hand to hand combat, high performance driving (on and off road), apprehension avoidance (including "picking" handcuffs and escaping from confinement), improvised explosive devices, Military Free Fall parachuting, combat and commercial SCUBA and closed circuit diving, small and in some cases large boat handling, proficiency in foreign languages, knowledge of how to constuct hasty or detailed disguises, entry operations and vehicle "hotwiring", Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape (SERE), extreme survival and wilderness training, first responder combat EMS medical training, tactical communications and tracking. These are just an example of the skill sets required

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    Aaron1124 wrote:
    Obviously no one who has read this thread even knows what the CIA Special Operations Group is.

    They are the most elite special forces unit in the nation.. drafting the best of the best OF the Special Forces.
    having read that--I stand behind my comment that the CIA and its "operators" are a joke.


    anyone can learn to pick a lock, kidnap innocent people, use rough interrogation, build and set traps and shoot--and shoot as good or better than the CIA "operators" and can learn to do it under pressure--the CIA just has an official stamp of approval on what they do--and do it behind closed doors and the government helps them to hide their crimes.

    the only difference between the government and the "ordinary" people is that the government has an official seal of approval on their actions, while if the "ordinary" people did the same things the government did--they would be called criminals, and charged with every crime imaginable.

    I stand behind my statement that the CIA and their "operators" are an utter waste of taxpayer money.

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    suntzu wrote:
    Aaron1124 wrote:
    Obviously no one who has read this thread even knows what the CIA Special Operations Group is.

    They are the most elite special forces unit in the nation.. drafting the best of the best OF the Special Forces.
    having read that--I stand behind my comment that the CIA and its "operators" are a joke.


    anyone can learn to pick a lock, kidnap innocent people, use rough interrogation, build and set traps and shoot--and shoot as good or better than the CIA "operators" and can learn to do it under pressure--the CIA just has an official stamp of approval on what they do--and do it behind closed doors and the government helps them to hide their crimes.

    the only difference between the government and the "ordinary" people is that the government has an official seal of approval on their actions, while if the "ordinary" people did the same things the government did--they would be called criminals, and charged with every crime imaginable.

    I stand behind my statement that the CIA and their "operators" are an utter waste of taxpayer money.
    Riiight, and the fact that they are all ex Delta and Team 6 means nothing.

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    SAD/SOG/CIA is not a complete waste of taxpayer money. After all,they gave us the Bourne trilogy.
    The thing about common sense is....it ain't too common.
    Will Rogers

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    Look fellas, even if you disagree with the tactics and controversial activities they've done, there's really no denying that they are trained on a very elite level.

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    Aaron1124 wrote:
    Look fellas, even if you disagree with the tactics and controversial activities they've done, there's really no denying that they are trained on a very elite level.
    I can deny that they are trained to an "elite level".

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    I hope you're trolling, man..

    You understand that SEAL Team 6 and Delta Special Ops draft the best of the best from the special forces? These guys are the Special Forces OF the Special Forces.

    The CIAs SAD/SOG units hire the best of the best of those groups and then undergo the CIA training on top of it.

    I guess you can deny that they are elite, but that doesn't mean a whole lot.

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    rodbender wrote:
    SAD/SOG/CIA is not a complete waste of taxpayer money. After all,they gave us the Bourne trilogy.
    true...but the Bourne Identity was better than the others...





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    Aaron1124 wrote:
    I hope you're trolling, man..

    You understand that SEAL Team 6 and Delta Special Ops draft the best of the best from the special forces? These guys are the Special Forces OF the Special Forces.

    The CIAs SAD/SOG units hire the best of the best of those groups and then undergo the CIA training on top of it.

    I guess you can deny that they are elite, but that doesn't mean a whole lot.
    no, I'm not trolling.

    The CIA is a complete waste of taxpayer money, as are their "spec ops" mercs who do their dirty work.

    Once you leave SFOD-D you are a civilian, and if you want to keep doing the things you did while you were in SFOD-D or DEVGRU--stay in the service and don't go into mercenary status...because that is what they essentially become.

    You do understand that the CIA was wanting to outsource its dirty work to mercs right--supposedly to black water/xe whatever you want to call it--they are still mercs.

    There is not an intelligent person in the "Agency"....When I heard that the DOJ was going to investigate CIA interrogators for alleged acts of torture--I was over joyed. I'm hoping they investigate Bush and Cheney as well.

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    suntzu wrote:
    Aaron1124 wrote:
    I hope you're trolling, man..

    You understand that SEAL Team 6 and Delta Special Ops draft the best of the best from the special forces? These guys are the Special Forces OF the Special Forces.

    The CIAs SAD/SOG units hire the best of the best of those groups and then undergo the CIA training on top of it.

    I guess you can deny that they are elite, but that doesn't mean a whole lot.
    no, I'm not trolling.

    The CIA is a complete waste of taxpayer money, as are their "spec ops" mercs who do their dirty work.

    Once you leave SFOD-D you are a civilian, and if you want to keep doing the things you did while you were in SFOD-D or DEVGRU--stay in the service and don't go into mercenary status...because that is what they essentially become.

    You do understand that the CIA was wanting to outsource its dirty work to mercs right--supposedly to black water/xe whatever you want to call it--they are still mercs.

    There is not an intelligent person in the "Agency"....When I heard that the DOJ was going to investigate CIA interrogators for alleged acts of torture--I was over joyed. I'm hoping they investigate Bush and Cheney as well.
    So once you're a civilian, all of your skills, training, and experiences go out the window and are disregarded?

    The fact is, no one here knows anything of what the special units of the CIA does. People can act, pretend, and think they know, but the only sources they'll ever get it from is wikipedia and their sources. I'm not saying that they're not way out of line with the alleged acts of torture and other extreme misconduct, but don't take away from what the truly noble operatives do.

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    Aaron1124 wrote:
    suntzu wrote:
    Aaron1124 wrote:
    I hope you're trolling, man..

    You understand that SEAL Team 6 and Delta Special Ops draft the best of the best from the special forces? These guys are the Special Forces OF the Special Forces.

    The CIAs SAD/SOG units hire the best of the best of those groups and then undergo the CIA training on top of it.

    I guess you can deny that they are elite, but that doesn't mean a whole lot.
    no, I'm not trolling.

    The CIA is a complete waste of taxpayer money, as are their "spec ops" mercs who do their dirty work.

    Once you leave SFOD-D you are a civilian, and if you want to keep doing the things you did while you were in SFOD-D or DEVGRU--stay in the service and don't go into mercenary status...because that is what they essentially become.

    You do understand that the CIA was wanting to outsource its dirty work to mercs right--supposedly to black water/xe whatever you want to call it--they are still mercs.

    There is not an intelligent person in the "Agency"....When I heard that the DOJ was going to investigate CIA interrogators for alleged acts of torture--I was over joyed. I'm hoping they investigate Bush and Cheney as well.
    So once you're a civilian, all of your skills, training, and experiences go out the window and are disregarded?

    Ah, troll job. Gotcha.
    nope, not a troll. Getting out but continuing to carry out PARA-military operations makes them a merc...I'm not against a merc--but I am against the double standard the government applies.

    Don't get me wrong--I would like to see everyone who is an adult--at least 18 receive the very best training possible-meaning that it should be available regardless of whether you do or do not enlist in the military. The thing is--certain companies try to limit the type of training they will offer to "ordinary" people...as if the peasants are unworthy of receiving the very best possible training available.

    Legal mercs who work for the government are generally allowed to use automatic weapons without having to comply with the NFA...they should be stripped of that protection, they should have to jump through the same hoops and pay the same enormous amounts of money that the average person has to. Mercs who work for black water and other such war profiteering companies are almost guaranteed to be exempt from the NFA..but an "ordinary" person is unworthy and has to pay a small fortune for the "privilege" of owning a class III weapon?

    There should be one law applying to both the government and the people.


    I would truly love to see the full repeal of the NFA. That would overjoy me to no end.

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    Aaron1124 wrote:
    suntzu wrote:
    Aaron1124 wrote:
    I hope you're trolling, man..

    You understand that SEAL Team 6 and Delta Special Ops draft the best of the best from the special forces? These guys are the Special Forces OF the Special Forces.

    The CIAs SAD/SOG units hire the best of the best of those groups and then undergo the CIA training on top of it.

    I guess you can deny that they are elite, but that doesn't mean a whole lot.
    no, I'm not trolling.

    The CIA is a complete waste of taxpayer money, as are their "spec ops" mercs who do their dirty work.

    Once you leave SFOD-D you are a civilian, and if you want to keep doing the things you did while you were in SFOD-D or DEVGRU--stay in the service and don't go into mercenary status...because that is what they essentially become.

    You do understand that the CIA was wanting to outsource its dirty work to mercs right--supposedly to black water/xe whatever you want to call it--they are still mercs.

    There is not an intelligent person in the "Agency"....When I heard that the DOJ was going to investigate CIA interrogators for alleged acts of torture--I was over joyed. I'm hoping they investigate Bush and Cheney as well.
    The fact is, no one here knows anything of what the special units of the CIA does. People can act, pretend, and think they know, but the only sources they'll ever get it from is wikipedia and their sources. I'm not saying that they're not way out of line with the alleged acts of torture and other extreme misconduct, but don't take away from what the truly noble operatives do.
    truly noble operative? There is no such person in the employ of the CIA. Again--the CIA is a complete waste of taxpayer money.

    The original question was:which was better...and I still say the best is Operational, active duty, current members of SFOD-D.

    Private mercenaries do not count.



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    I haven't read this whole thing, but I was in the Marine Corps for 8 years, and I'll admit that there are regular joes off of the street who could kick my a$$ in a fight. Being in the armed forces doesn't make you a certified Billy Bad A$$.

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    Geko45 <go Google him> could beat all of them one handed, without needing to duct tape trauma plates to his back, and using only his left hand to drive the tacticle golf cart -- oops!- meant to say Mall Emergency Response Team Hybrid-Drive Assault Vehicle.

    stay safe.

    skidmark
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    Aaron1124 wrote:
    The fact is, no one here knows anything of what the special units of the CIA does. People can act, pretend, and think they know, but the only sources they'll ever get it from is wikipedia and their sources.
    Well, then how is it you know somuch about it if it is so hard to find out about what they do? I suppose you were one or know one or you are privi to info no one else can get. Must be nice to be in such an elite group.
    The thing about common sense is....it ain't too common.
    Will Rogers

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    skidmark wrote:
    Geko45 <go Google him> could beat all of them one handed, without needing to duct tape trauma plates to his back, and using only his left hand to drive the tacticle golf cart -- oops!- meant to say Mall Emergency Response Team Hybrid-Drive Assault Vehicle.

    stay safe.

    skidmark
    now that was funny...thank you skidmark.

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    rodbender wrote:
    Aaron1124 wrote:
    The fact is, no one here knows anything of what the special units of the CIA does. People can act, pretend, and think they know, but the only sources they'll ever get it from is wikipedia and their sources.
    Well, then how is it you know somuch about it if it is so hard to find out about what they do? I suppose you were one or know one or you are privi to info no one else can get. Must be nice to be in such an elite group.
    The basics are well known. The details aren't.

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    This thread is kind of funny. If I understand correctly, you guys are arguing about 2 specific groups of operatives who, if we know what they're doing, have failed in a key element of their mission.

    I think the fact that there is no obvious solution to the debate says that they're probably good enough at what they do that we'll never know for sure. Knowing the way the lines seem to blur with government agencies and security clearances, I wouldn't be surprised if they don't both carry out duties that overlap at times.

    I could be completely off base, but the great thing about it is that it doesn't matter if I am. It's kind of like the Marines/Army feud. So long as they execute their duties faithfully and sucessfully, I have no reason to believe a better has to exist between 2 forces tasked with uniquely different missions.

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    Well said.

    The CIA and SEALs have completely different roles. Sometimes they may have the same goal but the CIA seems to be centered around gathering information and playing spy games whereas the SEALs are about sneaking in, completing their objective and sneaking out (on a tactical not a strategic level).

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    Aaron1124 wrote:
    rodbender wrote:
    Aaron1124 wrote:
    The fact is, no one here knows anything of what the special units of the CIA does. People can act, pretend, and think they know, but the only sources they'll ever get it from is wikipedia and their sources.
    Well, then how is it you know somuch about it if it is so hard to find out about what they do? I suppose you were one or know one or you are privi to info no one else can get. Must be nice to be in such an elite group.
    The basics are well known. The details aren't.
    If the details aren't readily available, how do you know that they are the elite of the elite fighting force? Shouldn't the proof be in the details? Yes, I think it is.
    The thing about common sense is....it ain't too common.
    Will Rogers

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