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Thread: New Car=End of of OC for Vandal?

  1. #1
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    Here is the story. I used to drive a 1993 Ford Taurus SHO, at 181k on the odometer it finally died and now lives in a junk yard. I replaced the car with a silver 2001 Ford Crown Vic Police Interceptor. Nowhere on the car are there any emergency lights, anything that says "police" or any striping on the car. Even the Police Interceptor badge is gone because the car has the "Street Appearance Package". It still has the blacked out grill and black panels on the trunk.

    I am worried that if I OC with this car I could get arrested for Impersonation. I wear Oakleys, collared shirts and have a military style haircut, combined with a gun on my hip I can see that as a recipe for trouble from the cops. Are there any written police impersonation laws in WA? There aren't any for Idaho in the state code, more just unpublished guidelines that can result in a felony.

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    I think you're fine.

    By the way, coming to Caldwell Municipa Park tomorrow for the Meet and Greet?

    Then maybe the Cabella's organizational meeting on Tuesday?

    Oh, I assume you don't have one of those stupid carry badges???????


  3. #3
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    No carry badge, I used to live in Boise but I am now living in Moscow.

    And no, I don't have one of those dorky carry badges.

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    Relevant statutes appear to be here:

    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.a...true#9A.60.040





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    Thanks Drew, I am going to print that off and keep it in my car. The only part of that I could see to cause issue is under:

    9A.60.045
    Criminal impersonation in the second degree.

    (1) A person is guilty of criminal impersonation in the second degree if the person:

    (a)(i) Claims to be a law enforcement officer or creates an impression that he or she is a law enforcement officer; and

    (ii) Under circumstances not amounting to criminal impersonation in the first degree, does an act with intent to convey the impression that he or she is acting in an official capacity and a reasonable person would believe the person is a law enforcement officer; or


    Specifically the "Creates and impression that he or she is a law enforcement officer" but the caveat is that the cops would have to prove I had the intention of making people believe that I am a cop.

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    Vandal wrote:
    Thanks Drew, I am going to print that off and keep it in my car. The only part of that I could see to cause issue is under:

    9A.60.045
    Criminal impersonation in the second degree.

    (1) A person is guilty of criminal impersonation in the second degree if the person:

    (a)(i) Claims to be a law enforcement officer or creates an impression that he or she is a law enforcement officer; and

    (ii) Under circumstances not amounting to criminal impersonation in the first degree, does an act with intent to convey the impression that he or she is acting in an official capacity and a reasonable person would believe the person is a law enforcement officer; or


    Specifically the "Creates and impression that he or she is a law enforcement officer" but the caveat is that the cops would have to prove I had the intention of making people believe that I am a cop.


    I'd suggest that intent is assessed with at least some inter-rater variability. And that would be mostly relevant among LEO raters. How many different cues or clues will they use to judge intent? Hard to give a good opinion.

    My hunch would be that there would be a small chance of some trouble if'n you got stopped or reported somehow by a citizen. Which leads me to another point: the "R" word. If a reasonable person beleiving you a LEO is part of the requirement, then a RP actuallying believing so might have a recursive effect on intent assessment. So, asking some RPs might be in order. Separately from the gun guys here, of course. We are all biased for you.

    You're embarking on a slightly more complicated road, seems to me. What are the benefits?

    Which leads me to another thought: What are the detriments, even if, say, no cop ever bothers you? Would, for example, driving around in a cop-style car and getting out of it looking like a cop.....somehow expose you to some targeting by some bad guys? Probably not too likely. But I'd guess the probability is non-zero...

    Good luck with your new presentation.





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    The benefits are a reliable car that I could afford and that I can fit in comfortably. My SHO quite literally died leaving me with out a car.

    I highly doubt that I would be targeted by bad guys since I live and work in a college town, even then in a larger city the probability is very, very low. The handful of cops I have talked to don't have a problem with it as long as I don't actively make people think I am a cop, so no logos on the car, lights, siren, badge on me (which I would never do anyway). Even OCing, I think I would be alright but it is a definite gray area in terms of OC and rolling in a silver Crown Vic

    Thanks for the thought provoking comments Hank, you brought up some things I hadn't thought of. I drove a black 01 Crown Vic PI in high school so I didn't have to worry much about carrying a gun in the car. During that time I got pulled over a few times about impersonation and got a few speeches.

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    Regular Member Ajetpilot's Avatar
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    Several folks here drive the same car you describe with no problems. I would think that "does an act with intent to convey the impression that he or she is acting in an official capacity and a reasonable person would believe the person is a law enforcement officer" would be something along the lines of trying to pull someone over.

    Enjoy your new ride.

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    TechnoWeenie owns a Crown Vic and OCs all the time. He's never had a problem with it that I know of. I also own a P71, but when I was driving it I didn't OC often.

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    Regular Member Mainsail's Avatar
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    I wouldn't worry about it too much. Drive nice, don't flash your lights for any reason, and you'll be OK. Enjoy knowing that you'll never see any more road rage, you won't be getting car-jacked, and the passing lane is yours.

    One thing I like about mine is that there's plenty of power and I still get over 20MPG in mixed driving.

    I still have mine but I'm selling it because I really need a 4WD more.



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    Just don't claim to be an officer and you'll be fine.

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    Ajetpilot wrote:
    Several folks here drive the same car you describe with no problems. I would think that "does an act with intent to convey the impression that he or she is acting in an official capacity and a reasonable person would believe the person is a law enforcement officer" would be something along the lines of trying to pull someone over.

    Enjoy your new ride.

    Agreed.


    I'm pretty surethe "act"would have to be substantially more than just going about your business.

    This isn't the kind of crime that one can accidentally commit.

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    Mainsail, very nice looking car. What year is it? I am looking around for those style of hubcaps for mine. All I plan to do to it is new small hubcaps, tint the windows and the K&N CAI. We will be making our first good road trip to Seattle/ Poulsbo next weekend for the UW, University of Idaho game. Go Vandals!

    Everyone, thank you for the responses. As usual the folks on OCDO have given some great advice. One of the reasons I love coming here.

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    Regular Member trevorthebusdriver's Avatar
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    If this guy doesn't get in trouble, I don't think you will.


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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Vandal wrote:
    I am worried that if I OC with this car I could get arrested for Impersonation.
    Driving a former "Cop Car" might cause you to be mistaken for a Taxi Driver too.

    I wouldn't worry. It takes a lot more than driving a retired police vehicle to be charged with impersonation. Those that are charged are often using the blue/red lights, carrying phoney badges, and stop young single women late at night.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Mainsail wrote:
    I wouldn't worry about it too much. Drive nice, don't flash your lights for any reason, and you'll be OK. Enjoy knowing that you'll never see any more road rage, you won't be getting car-jacked, and the passing lane is yours.

    One thing I like about mine is that there's plenty of power and I still get over 20MPG in mixed driving.

    I still have mine but I'm selling it because I really need a 4WD more.

    How much are you selling it for? Looking for a car for my folks right now and they totally get a kick outta this! Thanks and Good Luck Vandal, you should be fine

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    Vandal wrote:
    Here is the story. I used to drive a 1993 Ford Taurus SHO, at 181k on the odometer it finally died and now lives in a junk yard. I replaced the car with a silver 2001 Ford Crown Vic Police Interceptor. Nowhere on the car are there any emergency lights, anything that says "police" or any striping on the car. Even the Police Interceptor badge is gone because the car has the "Street Appearance Package". It still has the blacked out grill and black panels on the trunk.

    I am worried that if I OC with this car I could get arrested for Impersonation. I wear Oakleys, collared shirts and have a military style haircut, combined with a gun on my hip I can see that as a recipe for trouble from the cops. Are there any written police impersonation laws in WA? There aren't any for Idaho in the state code, more just unpublished guidelines that can result in a felony.
    Put some fancy after-market wheels on it and you'll make it look a lot less like a post-police product. And be careful with any added electronics anntenaes...:celebrate

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    Regular Member MadHatter66's Avatar
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    I live in Kitsap, where the county cars are dark green. I happen to have a dark green, crown vic. Never had a problem, although people slow down infront of me, and will do their best to get out of my way because they see me behind them. Never had a problem... And the car was a gift, I did not go out of my way to look like a county car, so happens that my grand mother liked the dark green...

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    Founder's Club Member Jim675's Avatar
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    Vandal wrote:
    Thanks Drew, I am going to print that off and keep it in my car. The only part of that I could see to cause issue is under:

    9A.60.045
    Criminal impersonation in the second degree.

    (1) A person is guilty of criminal impersonation in the second degree if the person:

    (a)(i) Claims to be a law enforcement officer or creates an impression that he or she is a law enforcement officer; and

    (ii) Under circumstances not amounting to criminal impersonation in the first degree, does an act with intent to convey the impression that he or she is acting in an official capacity and a reasonable person would believe the person is a law enforcement officer; or


    Specifically the "Creates and impression that he or she is a law enforcement officer" but the caveat is that the cops would have to prove I had the intention of making people believe that I am a cop.
    There are two elements to the crime. Claim the identity AND commit an act as that identity. You could drive a fully equipped police car in uniform and not be guilty of this law. Just don't write tickets, control traffic, or lecture OCers to cover their guns.

    The mere make and model of the car would be pretty hard stretch for all but the most outrageous prosecutor.




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    Regular Member Ajetpilot's Avatar
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    Jim675 wrote:
    Just don't write tickets, control traffic, or lecture OCers to cover their guns.

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    so if the city cops buy a car like the one you drive. could they be charged with impersonating joe schmoe

  22. #22
    Regular Member TechnoWeenie's Avatar
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    PM me for some advice, as well as 'the hookup' for turning your P71 back into it's civilian looking counterpart very easily/inexpensively.


    Hopefully you didn't overpay, but I fear you did.

    I bought an '04 with 57K for $3600 a little over a month ago..

    ETA: My car, although equipped with quite a bit of equipment, also has a vanity tag that anyone can tell, and is registered/insured/owned by my company, so there is a bit of a difference.



    As I said, shoot me a PM if you want some tips on how to keep it lower profile.


    Both Myself and Mainsail have add'l equipment in our cars, both of us OC, neither of us have had any issues (for the most part), neither of us drive like idiots, 'act' like anything, or whatever. There have been a few times where I've gotten questions, and the first words out of my mouth is to explain that it's a demonstration vehicle and I sell/outfit the cars, and am not a member of any department...

    With you, the easiest way to avoid those types of issues is to have me (or you!) give it a civvy makeover, IOTW swap out all the trim/grille/wheel covers, etc that make it look LESS like a police car.

    Something as simple as wheel covers can give the car a completely different look...


    Before





    20 mins later...





    (better shot, later)





    Evangelical lessons are provided upon request. Anyone wishing to meet Jesus can just kick in my door.

  23. #23
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    Nice looking car. PM sent

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    trevorthebusdriver wrote:
    If this guy doesn't get in trouble, I don't think you will.

    For a moment, I thought you took a picture of the new Police supervisor car here in Kelso WA.

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    Do they replace the hard plastic rear seats before sale?
    And what about the 'protective' divider mount holes?

    I prefer hatchbacks, don't know if it is to 'violate' fed transport law,
    or I just like having more room to throw junk in the car, but a military
    MP jeep would tempt me a little......

    Your best defense is the CWAG call. Why would they have a 911 call
    about you having a gun if the citizen thought you were a cop?
    Of course if you have the misfortune to break down on the side of the
    road I wouldn't sit in car waiting for the tow truck.
    And worst of all, no donuts in the car.

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