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Thread: Loveland: OC Apple Event

  1. #1
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    At 5:30pm on October 7, 2009, the one year anniversary of the offenses committed by the Loveland Police against The People and me, I will take an apple to that same location and, at 6:20pm, the approximate time of the offenses, I will commit the eating of said apple just as I did a year earlier just before I was set upon by three of Loveland’s “finest.”

    Please bring an apple to eat and join me for this OC event. It would also be good if there were video cameras present.

    Location: The small green area on the South Shore of Lake Loveland near the sculptures (about a block west of the Statue of Liberty). You can view the exact spot by going to Google Maps and searching for 531 W. Eisenhower Blvd, Loveland, CO.

    I hope to see you there.

  2. #2
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    I wish I could be there. That is a great symbolic gesture. I'd gladly be by your side if I didn't end up moving due to finding work and being stuck here for job training and a surgery. Please take pictures.

    AC

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    I will be there!

  4. #4
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    What happened to you??

  5. #5
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    Read-all-about-it. See the several threads in the Colorado section that refer to Loveland. The first one was "ALCU takes on Police. . . " or something like that.

  6. #6
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    I'll do my best to be there with apple in hand.

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    Wow I am shocked that that could happen to anyone. I passed by a cop today and did not freak out because he had a gun....... But I am also shocked that the ACLU got involved, I thought that commie outfit hated folks like us. Guess its a good thing that you were not o/c while singing silent night!!

  8. #8
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    manbaby wrote:
    Wow I am shocked that that could happen to anyone. I passed by a cop today and did not freak out because he had a gun....... But I am also shocked that the ACLU got involved, I thought that commie outfit hated folks like us. Guess its a good thing that you were not o/c while singing silent night!!
    They are better friends to The Constitution than many think they are. There are three or four ACLU state divisions, if you will, that have now supported the rights of gun owners.

  9. #9
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    Unless one of the following shall occur before the evening of October 7, 2009, I shall begin Fasting For The Rights of The People. The apple will be the last nutrition I shall take until one of the following happens.




    A. Chief Luke Hecker and the three offending officers shall sign before a Notary Pubic the following confession and, within twenty four hours of the signing, cause it to be filed with the U.S. District Court in Denver and transmit a true copy, including the signatures and notary affidavit and seal, to opencarry.org for publication.
    -------------------------------------------------
    “We, the undersigned, do hereby depose and swear or affirm that on the evening of October 7, 2008 we did conspire to, and we three officers did in fact, offend The People of the United States and the State of Colorado, the citizens of Loveland, and Mr. Bill Miller individually by the following actions:

    1. In the absence of any reasonable articulable suspicion of a crime afoot, we responded to a call that a man with a gun had been seen. In this, we did infringe the right of The People to keep and bear arms.[/i] “Responding” gave the message first to the caller and then to any observers that the carrying of a firearm in public view is somehow suspect. This did infringe the right of The People to keep and bear arms[/i] And,

    2. employing methods and utterances designed to dominate, and intimidate, which methods and utterances we had previously discussed among our fellow officers, superiors, and instructors, both in Loveland and elsewhere, we did illegally detain Mr. Miller, seize his sidearm, unload it, examine it, demand his identification, “run” his drivers license number and the serial number of his sidearm, and record the serial number of the sidearm. All of this we did over Mr. Miller’s objections. In this, we did
    a. infringe the right of The People to keep and bear arms,[/i]
    b. infringe Mr. Miller’s individual right to keep and bear arms,
    c. violate Mr. Miller’s right to be free from unreasonable search and seizure, and
    d. weaken the rights of all of the People to be free from unreasonable search andseizure.
    3. In committing the above offenses, we did also
    a. violate the free speech right of The People. For,
    i. the carrying of a firearm in public view is speech.
    ii. In so far as we discouraged Mr. Miller from carrying a sidearm in public view,we did cause a chilling effect on the speech often initiated by people upon seeing his gun, and
    b. we did further violate Mr. Miller’s individual right to free speech in that, at the time of our offenses, Mr. Miller made holsters for sale. In so far as we discouraged Mr. Miller from carrying his sidearm in full view, we did prevent him from most effectively displaying his wares.

    We are truly sorry for these offenses. We apologize to The People of The United States, The people of the State of Colorado, and the citizens of Loveland.


    We call upon all of our fellow officers all across America to quit their “us vs. them” mindset and quit the pretence of “officer safety” and all other such utterances designed to justify or excuse the violation of the rights of the people. We also call upon them to uphold above all The Constitution of The United States, to uphold the constitution of their respective state except where it may conflict with The Constitution of The United States, and to act at all times entirely within the laws of the United States and of their respective states, counties, and cities, and to refuse to enforce those laws that may conflict with The Constitution of The United States. And, we each hereby swear or affirm that we shall do the same."
    ----------------------------------------------
    B. A lawyer comes forth to represent me in my federal civil suit against Chief Hecker and the three offending officers.

    C. The District Attorney takes serious action, as I have asked him to do, to pursue the investigation of possible state criminal offenses by the three officers.

    D. The DOJ takes serious action, as I have asked them to do, to investigate possible criminal civil rights violations by the officers.

    (As I am not fluent in legalese, maybe some of you can help me with the wording of the above.)

    I anticipate that some will say the cops will never sign this. Well. . .

    There once was a man named Pete
    Who heard of an extinct fleet.
    On a river so gross
    You must hold your nose.
    I’ll get some friends,” said Pete.
    “We’ll build a boat like those.
    When people come to see’t,
    They’ll see floating, all the Shee’t.”
    People said, “It can’t be done.
    No one will help you, Son.”
    They built it,
    Did the friends, and Pete.
    And the people came and seen,
    And made the river clean.

    You may not agree with Pete Seeger’s politics, but this shows that people can do amazing things. I’m no Pete Seeger, and I cannot play banjo or sing, but I must do something because nothing is getting done now on the case of the errant cops among the Loveland Police. So, taking a lesson from great leaders in history, I will fast.

    (Maybe I need help with my poetry too – Ya think?)


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    Hey there Pete, maybe you should slow your roll. If I was a police officer and had "yet another call about a gun" I would approach with caution for sure. If I saw you in the park I would come up and ask you what you were doing and make sure that you were not a danger to the public. That should have been the end of it but thats not how it unfolded.

    If they wanted to act like a ******* then they need to educated. Most people dont know that this is an open carry state, I have lived here 12 yrs and just found out. Instead of doing what you are planning on doing why don't you put your self in their shoe for a few shifts? Guys like you and me don't feel the need to call the cops every time we may get confronted because we do carry guns and have not been conditioned to think like that. For the most part MOST people NEED the police because they know no other way to resolve life's issues.

    Then again you may have just got ahold of a few bad apples in that PD who are just really ****** up. Bad apples are everywhere, but I think that maybe we should try and fix the jacked up cops and not label all law enforcement retarded so fast.

    Now then again I might be wrong and will admit it if I am. But if I was the cop and I ****** up big time I would not sign what you have written. Why don't you spend you energy informing the people of their rights so that the "popo" get used to seeing the good guy carrying their guns out in the open where they belong.

  11. #11
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    That is a very well written format for their apology. I know it won't be signed, but it can form the basis for an agreed upon format that gets what you desire in the end. There are too many PDR of CA or MA types in Colorado--cetain parts, for OC to be accepted as a fact of right and life. But as it is not illegal (it's not "legal," as in approved by statute, but it is not prohibited, in general, therefore not unlawful) you still will have to deal with dumbass 'subjects' and room temperature IQ'd cops. The best of luck to you going forward, Bill.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

  12. #12
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    As the 7th approaches, a couple of thoughts come to mind upon which I would like to have input from everyone.

    1. I have been thinking about extending a special invitation to Chief Hecker.
    a. possible overture to future dialogue toward a win-win agreement
    b. Would it, perhaps, be seen as a hint of weakness on my part?
    c. Does it seem disingenuous given that I have asked both the U.S. DOJ and theLarimer County DA to investigate possible criminal charges?

    2. I thought I might carry an empty holster to illustrate having been intimidated into defenselessness.
    a. Do you think it’s a good idea?
    b. If I do that, how would I get that message understood by observers? (Other than simply answering questions, of course) Would an announcement or a handout be over-doing it?

    Everyone: Please tell me what you think.

    Thanks,
    Bill


  13. #13
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    Bill, I value your willingness to uphold the rule of law. I've read all related posts and I can honestly say that if it happened to me- I would be just as adamant about holding those officers accountable for their actions. My thought is, although elementary in nature, to compare apples to oranges- If a woman was walking through the park with sharp scissors in her hands, the scissors could be used and have been used to murder- so should she undergo the same treatment you received for having a pistol on your person? Although the world's rarely black and white- this issue is about wrong or right. My opinion- Carrying an empty holster is no different than carrying your pistol in that neither is illegal so you might as well carry it.

    And I would definitely invite the chief.

  14. #14
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    manbaby wrote:
    Hey there Pete, maybe you should slow your roll. If I was a police officer and had "yet another call about a gun" I would approach with caution for sure. If I saw you in the park I would come up and ask you what you were doing and make sure that you were not a danger to the public. That should have been the end of it but thats not how it unfolded.

    If they wanted to act like a ******* then they need to educated. Most people dont know that this is an open carry state, I have lived here 12 yrs and just found out. Instead of doing what you are planning on doing why don't you put your self in their shoe for a few shifts? Guys like you and me don't feel the need to call the cops every time we may get confronted because we do carry guns and have not been conditioned to think like that. For the most part MOST people NEED the police because they know no other way to resolve life's issues.

    Then again you may have just got ahold of a few bad apples in that PD who are just really @#$%ed up. Bad apples are everywhere, but I think that maybe we should try and fix the jacked up cops and not label all law enforcement retarded so fast.

    Now then again I might be wrong and will admit it if I am. But if I was the cop and I @#$%ed up big time I would not sign what you have written. Why don't you spend you energy informing the people of their rights so that the "popo" get used to seeing the good guy carrying their guns out in the open where they belong.
    You're definitely correct that the uneducated need educating. I agree with you, as well, that if I was the cop- I wouldn't be signing it either.

    Where is that thin red line between making sure the person isn't a danger- and stopping them, emptying their mag, running their ID and serial, and then leaving?

    In my opinion and in the eyes of the law- The officer has no right to stop Bill just as Bill has no right to stop the officer- if no suspicion is raised.

    "The gun alone is suspicion.." No, frankly, it's not. Like having red eyes (blood shot) isn't alone suspicion of drug use.

    Believe me, if the officers had Anything on Bill- they, and the DA, wouldn't slow their roll on prosecuting Bill to the fullest extent of the law. Likewise- Bill shouldn't slow his roll on prosecuting the officers to the fullest extent of the law.

    Agreed?

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    I think this needs a <bump>
    I was born and raised in the great state of Colorado. But am now living in Utah.


    I wish i could be there Bill. I'll make a point of eating an apple on the 7th...here in Utah while packing. You da' Man!






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    [bump ]

  17. #17
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    I'll be there
    "There are those who still think they are holding the pass against a revolution that may be coming up the road. But they are gazing in the wrong direction. The revolution is behind them. It went by in the Night of Depression, singing songs of freedom" -- Garet Garrett, The Revolution Was (1938)

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    <bump>

  19. #19
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    opencarrybilly wrote:
    At 5:30pm on October 7, 2009, the one year anniversary of the offenses committed by the Loveland Police against The People and me, I will take an apple to that same location and, at 6:20pm, the approximate time of the offenses, I will commit the eating of said apple just as I did a year earlier just before I was set upon by three of Loveland’s “finest.”

    Please bring an apple to eat and join me for this OC event. It would also be good if there were video cameras present.

    Location: The small green area on the South Shore of Lake Loveland near the sculptures (about a block west of the Statue of Liberty). You can view the exact spot by going to Google Maps and searching for 531 W. Eisenhower Blvd, Loveland, CO.

    I hope to see you there.
    Is this where we parked my car for the picnic, Bill?

    I'm planning to be there . . . ) There is a possibility that something will come up, but . . . I'll do my best.



  20. #20
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    RayeHawk wrote:
    opencarrybilly wrote:
    At 5:30pm on October 7, 2009, the one year anniversary of the offenses committed by the Loveland Police against The People and me, I will take an apple to that same location and, at 6:20pm, the approximate time of the offenses, I will commit the eating of said apple just as I did a year earlier just before I was set upon by three of Loveland’s “finest.”


    Please bring an apple to eat and join me for this OC event. It would also be good if there were video cameras present.

    Location: The small green area on the South Shore of Lake Loveland near the sculptures (about a block west of the Statue of Liberty). You can view the exact spot by going to Google Maps and searching for 531 W. Eisenhower Blvd, Loveland, CO.

    I hope to see you there.
    Is this where we parked my car for the picnic, Bill?

    I'm planning to be there . . . ) There is a possibility that something will come up, but . . . I'll do my best.

    Yes.

  21. #21
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    Again, as at the picnic, I felt very much the support of friends. Thanks toall for being there. It was a very comfortable time. We were even amused when the SWAT van rolled by on Eisenhower Blvd.

    After eating my apple, I began my fast. Just a word about that, if I may. And, I hope you will understand if you notice a certain evolution in my thinking from earlier posts.

    I have come now to believe that it is crucial, for the recovery of the rights of all, that we put all we've got into an effort to correct the mindset that seems to prevail among manypolice officers and other government officials all across the country. Those fast-breakers that I mentioned in my earlier post represent possible steps toward that hope. There may be other possibilities, at this time not foreseen, that wouldrepresentsubstantial progress. If so, any one ofsuch things would prompt me to end the fast. This would be welcomed, asI am hungry already.

    We must awaken the complacent among The People. I hope that my fast will help in this. But, if The People don't know,things will not get done. You can help. If you would, please, write letters to editors, post on forums, call in totalk radio,and whatever elseyou can do in order to spread the word about this fast - its purpose - and the importance of action.

    And, again, if you will, get on the DOJ, the Larimer County DA, and the Loveland Police Chief. Demand that they do the right thing. And, do the same with the officials in your area. And, encourage others to do likewise.

    Thanks




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