Weapon Carry Not a Right

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D_Weezy wrot

My problem with this is he did have a license, so it is not up for debate. He was not breaking the law. They stopped him from doing something that is legal in Indiana, just because they didn't like it. What about the rest of the time when he is walking around with his open weapon? .

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What about people that don't like or feel comfortable with a black man walking down the street? Would they, and the police, ask him to walk somewhere else???

I don't f***ing think so.....

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RockyMtnScotsman wrote:

D_Weezy wrot

My problem with this is he did have a license, so it is not up for debate. He was not breaking the law. They stopped him from doing something that is legal in Indiana, just because they didn't like it. What about the rest of the time when he is walking around with his open weapon? .

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What about people that don't like or feel comfortable with a black man walking down the street? Would they, and the police, ask him to walk somewhere else???

I don't f***ing think so.....

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Think back. It wasn't so long ago that that was the way it was. In that sense we are in the middle of our own rights movement.

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Exactly why I chose that illustration.

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BAD OCer.

If you're going out to make a statement, as he said he was, you know the law cold, you press the "Am I being detained" question, and you stick to your RIGHTS.

If other people are scared, that's their problem. They need to learn to deal with legal activities. How many people were uncomfortable with desergregation?

I would NOT have offered to conceal to make the police happy.

I would have not had any ID on me (I'm in Oregon, we don't need a permit for open carry) unless I was in a jurisdiction which required me to have my CHL (very few here and all up near Portland). I have my wife carry my ID when I am out with her OCing. Our law (some states are different) here in Oregon is that we are not required to carry ID, only identify ourselves (name and address). It really pisses off the LEO's I'm sure when you don't have ID but if they have no RAS, I'm not going to give it up. If they articulate a RAS to me that is reasonable (not "you have a gun") I will let ask my wife to give them the ID.

The thing with her carrying the ID is that, if asked by LE, I can honestly say "I don't have any ID on me".

Yes, it's being an arse. It's also the LAW. Will I end up arrested? Maybe. And then there will be a lawsuit.....right after the charges are dropped because the DA heard the audio and they say "You have a gun that's all the suspicion we need".

The time is here my friends.

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The OC proponent buckled and back peddled, The Cops were pushing their personal agendas, the fella should have the officers to show their hand and place him under arrest or detain him, then he'd have a solid foundation to stand on when making an effort to file suit,

Instead the OCer volenteered to forfeit his rights and the officers didn't take his right away, they just coerced him to give them up.. I bet the OCer has no legal recourse!

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Carnivore wrote:

The OC proponent buckled and back peddled, The Cops were pushing their personal agendas, the fella should have the officers to show their hand and place him under arrest or detain him, then he'd have a solid foundation to stand on when making an effort to file suit,

Instead the OCer volenteered to forfeit his rights and the officers didn't take his right away, they just coerced him to give them up.. I bet the OCer has no legal recourse!

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Exactly.

Now, we don't have to all go out to "make a point" but he stated that was his purpose. If you're going out to make a point that OC is legal then do it. All that this incident did was cause the officers involved, and any others they communicate with, to become more comfortable with violating the rights of the next OCer they come into contact with.

Having, politely, pressed the issue of his RIGHT to carry openly and sticking to the "am I being detained" question and leaving when they said no would have caused the officers to question their actions. Had they arrested him, or unlawfully detained him (it's not unlawful if you stay when they say you haven't been detained), then there would be even more cause for them as well as their fellow officers and their department to question their actions.

The way this played out, the next OCer willl be hassled just as much, if not more.

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that cop is an idiot

and I stress IDIOT

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No, I wouldn't use the term "idiot".

The officers in this case were not "bad" (or idiots), they were simply doing what they could, within the law. Yes, they expressed opinions and made statements about things that were not illegal activities, just theiropinions, but the OCer engaged in the conversation. If he wanted to make a statement, as he said he did, he should have taken the opportunity to educate them and continuing to carry openly rather than concealling.

We must work WITH law enforcement, whether you like it or not.

I was recently working on preparations for an OC picnic in a public park in a residential neighborhood. Part of what I was working on was a "courtesy notice" to all the law enforcement and 911 call centers that might be involved with a man with a gun call. We were going to inform them ahead of time about our funtion, location, time, etc., and that we would be OCing. The police were invited to stop by and say hello. It was written in a way thatwe were sending the notice to HELP THEM avoid unneccessary expendatures of man power and such things responding to unneccessary calls. It's called POLITICS and public relations.

Were we required to notify the police? Of course not, but imagine the surprise on some anti's face when calling 911 to report us and they're told "yes ma'm that's perfectly legal, in fact the Chief just told me I should come over and join him for lunch". Imagine the police department not having to race through residential streets to respond to a possibly dangerous situation and knowing that the reason they aren't is that "those nice OC folks gave us a heads up".

For those of us that have a concealled carry license but chose to carry openly, we must ask ourselves "what are we trying to accomplish by carrying openly instead of concealled?". If the answer is "education and awareness of the public and law enforcement" then we must be prepared to do that education. It's not education to go out looking for a bad encounter and a bad encounter is not a good ambassador for public awareness.

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suntzu wrote:

that cop is an idiot

and I stress IDIOT

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I'd like you to become a cop and do better...

All you do is talk talk talk, you don't do do do.

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The OCer in the clip is an idiot and I stress IDIOT!

He either doesn't really know the law or he has no spine.

He never asked them what their RAS was and talked way too much.

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There were NO IDIOTS.

There were LEO's who should not have done what they did but the OCer allowed it by consenting.

There was an OCer who did not do what he set out to do, "make a statement". However, none of us was there and none of us knows what the OCer was thinking. Perhaps he decided that he did not want to risk an unlawful arrest by insisting upon his rights. Who knows.

If you're going out to "make a statement" and change your mind, it doesn't make you an idiot.

Likewise, LEO's using the law and a consenting citizen, were doing what they thought, improperly in the eyes of many of us, was right. That doesn't make them idiots either.

It's simply an encounter with LE that didn't go as it should (i.e. Hi, have a nice day) nor did it go badly (i.e. a citizen arrested unlawfully).