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Thread: What to look for in an open carry gun

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    I currently carry concealed on a daily basis when allowed here in WA. My primary carry is a G19 with a kel-tec bug. After lurking on this site and listening to some handgun related pod cast, I think I would like to open carry from time to time. My worry is carrying a gun openly that is easy to fire.

    This may sound weird, but my aversion to open carry is being worried about someone else trying to unholster my gun and use it against me. I was thinking, if the worst case was to happen, having something with a more complicated battery of arms than the glock, would come in handy.

    I understand it is my responsiblity to be aware of my surroundings when carrying, and I am more so when I do not carry, but for peice of mind, am I crazy? And what would you recommend.

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    Regular Member MarlboroLts5150's Avatar
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    Me personally....I would recommend that you stick with a gun you are very familiar with, and get yourself a good retention holster. Practice continously with it so you can draw from it without thinking about it (muscle memory).

    Not making light of your fear, and not saying it wouldn't happen. But I cannot find a single report of that happening. Most times the criminal element would already be armed. As well as most criminals would prefer UNARMED targets.
    "My dedication to my country's flag rests on my ardent belief in this noblest of causes, equality for all. If my future rests under this earth rather than upon it, I fear not."

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    If you are worried about you handgun being taken by someone and used against you then consider a cross draw holster. I carry cross draw in a Serpa holster but not for that reason. Someone trying to take it from you will have to be pretty much in front of you, not sneaking up from behind you.
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    From what you say, my advice is to get a solid retention holster. I use a simple Uncle Mike's with the snap on the inside. If you carry a semi-auto you might want to carry without one in the chamber as an added precaution. You would know to jack one into the chamber but your assailant would find this difficult to accomplish if in a grappling situation while you went for your BUG.

    Good luck!

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    Just get a level 3 or4 retention holster from Safariland, and practice drawing from it 1000+ times.

    Although we don't know of a case where a non uniformed OCer has had an attemped gun grab by a non cop, theoreticaly speaking, if a criminal is smart enough to figure out how to undo that complicated of a system before you draw on him, he probably will be smart enough to go bother someone else.

    Here is an example of a good holster option for you.

    http://www.copsplus.com/prodnum2090.php

    Or, slightly less complicated and my personal choice,

    http://www.copsplus.com/prodnum2088.php

    If a criminal has your gun in hand, you're really up @#$% creek as is. Avoiding that is much more important than adding safety features to fumble over.
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    Regular Member 45acpForMe's Avatar
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    ecocks wrote:
    ...my advice is to get a solid retention holster.
    +1

    I have heard good things about safariland and don't want to start the best-retention-holster debate again. I like my SERPAsome people like it, some don't but it feels natural to me. http://www.blackhawk.com/product/SERPA-CQC-wMatte-Finish,1145,1410.htm

    The level2 holsters are fairly cheap. You can look at the level3 ones there also.

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    45acpForMe wrote:
    I have heard good things about safariland and don't want to start the best-retention-holster debate again.
    There really isn't anything to debate about. Both types have their advantages and disadvantages. It's an individuals choice.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

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    Regular Member 45acpForMe's Avatar
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    Michigander wrote:
    45acpForMe wrote:
    I have heard good things about safariland and don't want to start the best-retention-holster debate again.
    There really isn't anything to debate about. Both types have their advantages and disadvantages. It's an individuals choice.
    I agree but whole threads get hijacked talking about the pros and cons of each and rumors of failure from a friend of a friend. Both are good. Try them if possible and see which feels better.

    Back to the OP, since you are not looking to conceal the gun, you can consider a large frame with hi-cap magazine. There is no reason you couldn't OC Glock19 though.

    I OC my SigP220 but would feel more comfortable with 13-15 rounds in the magazine rather than my straight-8. I was hoping the Sig250 was going to meet or exceed the 13 round of Glock and XD but they only make 10 round mags for it.

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    Regular Member david.ross's Avatar
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    Ignore what others are telling you in reference to a carry holster. I do recommend safariland, HOWEVER... if you're carrying a glock, go ahead and buy the best holster you can along with a duty belt. Links below.


    Safariland 6070 raptor... select the option "SH", this will increase the holster LEVEL TO V.
    http://www.opticsplanet.net/safarila...nd-6070-8.html

    Here is a weekend coupon which is still active for memorial day, $10 off.
    Coupon code: 4WKR94T

    Total should be about $111.59... shipping is free unless you're not in the lower 48.

    Also, read my thread on belts
    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum62...1.html#p455675

    You'll notice I'm anti-blackhawk in regards to holsters. This is with prejudice and with good reason. Don't bother with blackhawk holsters.

    Stay safe,
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    Wow, I really had no idea what I was getting myself into wen I started to think about OC. I thought it would be an excuse to get a new gun and a new holster. Looks like I have much to learn about new holsters. After reading some threads on here, I was looking at the safariland ALS, but now people are mentioning different level and the price for the holster alone has jumped 100 dollars., about 70 more than I though an off the self holster cost.

    Guess I need more research.

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    insane.kangaroo wrote:
    You'll notice I'm anti-blackhawk in regards to holsters. This is with prejudice and with good reason. Don't bother with blackhawk holsters.
    I went to both links and there's nothing there about you being anti-blackhawk. Why do you say don't bother with them?

    I'm looking for a CC holster, and was considering blackhawk.

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    Regular Member david.ross's Avatar
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    soundlzd,

    I used to use the 6280, which is a level II upgradable to III(which I did).

    If you want to carry securely... buy the Safariland I mentioned.

    Also... in case you're hassled, it takes an officer quite a bit to figure out how to operate a 6280 with the upgrade... So think for a minute how long it will take someone trying to grab the gun off you while you make an attempt to defend against a grab.

    Many I've seen use the nice dangerous leather holsters with just a strap over and snap for... a Glock. Good way to shoot oneself if the strap tugs the trigger. Many instructors will warn you about the hazard, yet some people will foolishly still buy such holsters. Safety over glossy "cute" leather.

    The rotating system on a safariland is far better. The Blackhawk belts I linked you to are extremely durable and cheap, I have both the under/duty belt combo. The Safariland belts are overpriced IMO. No need for a belt which holds proprietary wrist ties nor a 80USD double locking belt which is available for a fraction of the price.
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    Regular Member david.ross's Avatar
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    jsimmons wrote:
    insane.kangaroo wrote:
    You'll notice I'm anti-blackhawk in regards to holsters. This is with prejudice and with good reason. Don't bother with blackhawk holsters.
    I went to both links and there's nothing there about you being anti-blackhawk. Why do you say don't bother with them?

    I'm looking for a CC holster, and was considering blackhawk.
    I'm primarily talking about duty holsters.

    Define CC holster.

    With a mid or high ride duty holster, one can conceal with a jacket. Unless you're looking for an ankle, shoulder, etc.
    Gays are prominent members of firearm rights, we do more via the courts, don't like it? Leave.
    Religious bigots against same sex marriage are not different than white supremacists.
    I expel anti-gay people off my teams. Tolerance is key to team cohesion and team building.

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    So why wont a normal gun belt work? I looked at safarilands website and found out how those holsters work. Appears to be sort of a push down to release type deal.

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    Regular Member david.ross's Avatar
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    What is a "gun belt"?

    Do you mean a trouser belt or a duty belt?
    The purpose of a duty belt is not only for a firearm, but for any other items you wish to place on the belt.

    I should also note, with a duty belt like the one I linked with the VELCRO, I just take it off when I want. No need for belt keepers or to take off the holster from the belt.

    http://www.safariland.com/DutyGear/p....aspx?pid=6070
    I don't believe the videos show a level V but just the III.

    With a level V, you get...

    - tension device making harder to draw the gun unless on your person
    - SLS hood
    - the locking system when you place the gun in the holster
    - the sentry security add-on
    - SLS security hood add on

    You may not like the extra added security options with the SH. If you do not, you can remove the device.
    Gays are prominent members of firearm rights, we do more via the courts, don't like it? Leave.
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    insane.kangaroo wrote:
    Also... in case you're hassled, it takes an officer quite a bit to figure out how to operate a 6280 with the upgrade.
    That isn't always the case. Some PD's issue the damn things. I got stopped by some rather rude individuals from just such a PD some time ago, and I was disarmed quickly and efficiently.
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    Regular Member david.ross's Avatar
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    Those are the PDs which are intelligent to force their officers to wear decent hoslters. None of the times I've been harassed did they quickly unlawfully seize my firearm.
    Gays are prominent members of firearm rights, we do more via the courts, don't like it? Leave.
    Religious bigots against same sex marriage are not different than white supremacists.
    I expel anti-gay people off my teams. Tolerance is key to team cohesion and team building.

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    45acpForMe wrote:
    I OC my SigP220 but would feel more comfortable with 13-15 rounds in the magazine rather than my straight-8. .
    I carry the same gun and agree, but I do have a way around the low capacity.

    I practice drawing a magazine with one hand while drawing my gun with the other. That way the one hand can hold the drawn gun while the other hand holds the magazine, with the wrist of the mag holding hand available to support the gun hand.

    It's a slick and easy gun to reload. I can have an empty mag out and a loaded one in and chambered in well under a second. I'd prefer a double stack, no question. But it works well enough.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    insane.kangaroo wrote:
    Those are the PDs which are intelligent to force their officers to wear decent hoslters. None of the times I've been harassed did they quickly unlawfully seize my firearm.
    Different states have different idiosyncrasies.

    I'm actually surprised they'd even stop you to begin with given Alaska's laws.


    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    Regular Member david.ross's Avatar
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    The Alaska State trooper which harassed me got his ass chewed out by the captain. The Captain was so fricken upset he had me shaking in my boots.

    The only other times I've ever been harassed was in Pennsylvania... I still find myself in disappointment in regards to a specific officer at the Pittsburgh PD.... The rest of the Pittsburgh officers are gentleman and ladies with in exception of the few who informed me they'd detain and run my ID/serial every time they pass me.
    Gays are prominent members of firearm rights, we do more via the courts, don't like it? Leave.
    Religious bigots against same sex marriage are not different than white supremacists.
    I expel anti-gay people off my teams. Tolerance is key to team cohesion and team building.

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    Some outfit I ran across at the last Dulles gun show has developed a "safety bullet" that will, if fired, ram a plug into the chamber and render the weapon inoperable OR in the case of a revolver stick a rod into the barrel and keep the cylinder from rotating to a live round. The disadvantage of course is that you must either manually eject the "safety round" or rotate the cylinder to a live round; and if you fire multiple shots you could lose count and lock up your revolver at a critical moment.

    It takes a bit of training but it is possible to respond to a "gun grab" in such a way as to dislocate the elbow of the miscreant. My usual response to a threatening situation is to keep my forearm over the weapon in such a way as to deny access and be prepared to draw if need be. An attampt to grab your weapon IMHO (and eff abbreviations, I AM NOT A LAWYER) SEEMS to me to be a bona-fide no-s&^t life-threatening situation fully justifying use of lethal force.

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    I disagree with some of the advice you've gotten so far. I carry a G17 which obviously isn't much different than your weapon. I carry OWB in a www.sideguardholsters.com holster. Like any good custom made leather holster, this one is wet-molded to the EXACT shape of your gun. The fit is very snug and actually needs some break-in to release properly. Many custom leather makers add a tension screw to allow some adjustability in tension. My gun fits perfectly. It won't fall out if you turn it upside down. It won't come out of the holster if you tug on it at an angle. You do not need or want a thumb break (see www.HighNoonHolsters.com FAQs for a great explanation of why). I carry with an empty chamber but would have no qualms carrying with one in the pipe if/when I choose to carry with a round chambered.

    Oh yeah, belts. You can get away with a lesser belt for IWB but if you're going to open carry, presumably we're talking about OWB which requires a stout belt. I'll save you a lot of time, effort and money with one recommendation: www.beltman.net. You will never regret this purchase.

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    Regular Member 45acpForMe's Avatar
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    Section32 wrote:
    http://www.beltman.net. You will never regret this purchase.
    I think you mean: http://www.thebeltman.net/

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    Regular Member david.ross's Avatar
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    Section32 wrote:
    It won't fall out if you turn it upside down. It won't come out of the holster if you tug on it at an angle. You do not need or want a thumb break (see http://www.HighNoonHolsters.com FAQs for a great explanation of why).
    The OP is asking about holsters for open carry, so security is a big decision.

    Choosing to carry securely is your choice, if you wish to expose yourself to gun grabs or other type of scenarios where you may not be immediately able to stop someone from taking your weapon is your own choice.

    I recommend not spreading baseless opinion why someone shouldn't use a thumb break or SLS when OPENLY CARRYING.

    Did you EVEN READ THE QUESTION AND ANSWER on that website?

    you sir, are WRONG. They even state YOU are wrong.

    bold is my highlighting

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    28 What do you guys recommend, thumbreak or open top holsters?
    We like open top holsters better than thumbreaks. They are quicker on the draw and on the reholster. The straps on the thumbreak always seem to get in the way. Its' also harder to practice drawing with a thumbreak holster than open top. People that have thumbreak holsters usually do not practice. People that have open tops seem to practice more, because it's a lot easier. For most people that have a concealed carry permit, open top is the way to go.It's just simple, nothing to worry about except drawing. Most people are not going in harm's way, you are avoiding it, so a thumbreak holster is not needed. Law enforcement is a different story, some departments mandate a thumbreak off duty holster. Its also difficult to try and hand cuff someone if you can't reholster.
    Some people believe a thumbreak is safer in case someone tries to take the gun away from them. It's not safer when you need the gun in a hurry, to have to go thru a thumbreak to get to it. As we said before simple is always better. Here's the part everyone is forgetting. It's a concealment holster. It's supposed to be covered so no one knows you are carrying a gun, it was designed to conceal, rather than secure the gun.
    It's not like a cop's duty holster, for all the world to see. That needs to be in a secure holster. They need level 2,3,4 holsters. Most of us will not be carrying a gun for all to see.
    Some people also believe that if the holster does not have a thumbreak on it, the gun will fall out. This is a tall tale. Our open top holsters are molded to a specific gun you order it for and will be so tight when you get it you will hardly be able to put the gun in or get it out till the break in period is over. Also we have designed a tension screw into the holster to adjust the draw. This could be tightened down so much that the gun may not come out.
    Some people also believe that if you run with an open top holster it will pop out. First of all you need to learn how to run properly with any holster on, this would be the key. If you are running with a gun holster on, the first thing you should do is put your hand over the gun and holster. This serves two purposes, first one is you will be able to run allot faster without something bouncing up and down , the second would be to make sure everything stays in place{ shirt or covering garment, holster shift front to back } in case you need the weapon. You would be surprised how the shirt or covering garment bunches up right over the handle of the gun when running.
    Do us all a favor, and get a secure holster. If you're open carrying with an open top holster, you're doing it wrong.

    Also, in regards to open carrying and running... let it hang! do not put your hand over it, do not hold your belt... just run! Anyone in the military, law enforcement, or any military contractors will tell you this... just let it hang... screw trying to run and hold your junk.

    Gays are prominent members of firearm rights, we do more via the courts, don't like it? Leave.
    Religious bigots against same sex marriage are not different than white supremacists.
    I expel anti-gay people off my teams. Tolerance is key to team cohesion and team building.

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