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Another Warren picnic possibility?

Generaldet

Generaldet

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Guys, I think we might be going about this one the wrong way. Hear me out, you all know that I am for picnics and litter clean ups, etc. But, I don't think that eating pizza on the steps of the Warren PD is a good idea from a PR stand point. We consider ourselves a non confrontational group and something like this highly contradicts that statement. There are better ways to do this. How about coming up with an event to work with the police department in a fundraiser event or a litter pickup (as was suggested by someone previously) there are plenty of things we can come up with that are less confrontational and still accomplish our goals. I'm all for another Warren event, but not like this. Lets be the bigger person and do this the right way.
 
A

autosurgeon

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I agree! Do they have a community relations dept? if so work up a joint event like a fund raiser for kids with cancer or some such.... The public will see you working together and the police officers will get to see that we are not wackjobs!
 
FatboyCykes

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Generaldet wrote:
Guys, I think we might be going about this one the wrong way. Hear me out, you all know that I am for picnics and litter clean ups, etc. But, I don't think that eating pizza on the steps of the Warren PD is a good idea from a PR stand point. We consider ourselves a non confrontational group and something like this highly contradicts that statement. There are better ways to do this. How about coming up with an event to work with the police department in a fundraiser event or a litter pickup (as was suggested by someone previously) there are plenty of things we can come up with that are less confrontational and still accomplish our goals. I'm all for another Warren event, but not like this. Lets be the bigger person and do this the right way.
Click to expand...
.....logic.....reason, cooler heads prevailing....Gandhi mother....

As usual, you speak with the wisdom of and old man, like Brian, for such a young punk.
 
Michigander

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Generaldet, I think this might be one the few things you and I have a slight difference of opinion on when it comes to open carrying.

In some cases, I think a confrontation is a good thing. If your 8 year old steals your cigarettes and smokes them, the kid needs an ass wooping. If you own a company and have an employee who does little work, he should be fired. If you are a good person who gets harassed by police who violate laws like the constitution by harassing you, you need to make it stop.

That's why my opinion is still that we should picnic as close as comfortably possible to the department, to reinforce the fact that we obey the law and they exist to do nothing more than to serve and protect us. It's a nice public area anyway which is used for concerts and fairs. And after all, you and I and other tax payers paid for it. We should use it if we want.

All that said, I think the most important thing is to open carry heavily in Warren as long as it takes to solve this. I am willing and eager to devote a lot of time towards OCing in warren for as long as it takes. Whatever the group is up for, count me in.

And hell, if you can actually get them to work WITH us, I'd be all for it. I'm eager to better relations with all PD's. But I have yet to see a thing that would lead me to believe that changing the ways of the Warren PD will be easy.
 
M

mikestilly

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Generaldet wrote:
Guys, I think we might be going about this one the wrong way. Hear me out, you all know that I am for picnics and litter clean ups, etc. But, I don't think that eating pizza on the steps of the Warren PD is a good idea from a PR stand point. We consider ourselves a non confrontational group and something like this highly contradicts that statement. There are better ways to do this. How about coming up with an event to work with the police department in a fundraiser event or a litter pickup (as was suggested by someone previously) there are plenty of things we can come up with that are less confrontational and still accomplish our goals. I'm all for another Warren event, but not like this. Lets be the bigger person and do this the right way.
Click to expand...

I'm confused how eating pizza in a really public place that all our taxes pay for outside on a nice day is a bad thing? It's an area to relax and hang out. I read books out there all the time and sometimes do some studying. It's also a great place for children to run around. I don't recommend yelling an screaming but I don't understand what the problem is. As for working with the police that would be great too but I have a sneaking suspicion they don't want to have anything to do with us. If they do great. The goal is not to get people arrested the goal is to let them know we're not going away and we're law abiding citizens right?
 
Generaldet

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Michigander, I hear you. I'm all for having more of a presence in the city. All of your examples make sense and I'm just as pissed of about what has been happening as the next guy. But, I really think we can make our point by other methods. Lets give it a try first, if nothing changes then we can revisit the issue.

Of course everyone is free to do as they wish, but I'm asking you to trust me on this one, If I'm wrong I'll be the first to admit it.
 
Michigander

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By the way, we know that at least some of the officers read this forum, because we were told that at the picnic. So I'll address thim directly.

Please guys, PLEASE prove me wrong by respecting us, and avoiding further headaches for everyone. Wouldn't it be nice for warren residents to be able to exercise their rights without living in fear of being cuffed and wrongfully charged? Wouldn't it be nice not to make yourselves vulnerable in law suits?

I honestly want to be your friend guys! Or at least not someone you think of as a trouble maker, and rather just a fellow asset to the common good. We're harmless folks who mean you no disrespect if you merely allow us our rights. It's a simple easy and fair thing to ask for.
 
Generaldet

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FatboyCykes wrote:
Generaldet wrote:
Guys, I think we might be going about this one the wrong way. Hear me out, you all know that I am for picnics and litter clean ups, etc. But, I don't think that eating pizza on the steps of the Warren PD is a good idea from a PR stand point. We consider ourselves a non confrontational group and something like this highly contradicts that statement. There are better ways to do this. How about coming up with an event to work with the police department in a fundraiser event or a litter pickup (as was suggested by someone previously) there are plenty of things we can come up with that are less confrontational and still accomplish our goals. I'm all for another Warren event, but not like this. Lets be the bigger person and do this the right way.
Click to expand...
.....logic.....reason, cooler heads prevailing....Gandhi mother....

As usual, you speak with the wisdom of and old man, like Brian, for such a young punk.
Click to expand...
Wise guy eh? lol
 
Michigander

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Generaldet wrote:
Of course everyone is free to do as they wish, but I'm asking you to trust me on this one, If I'm wrong I'll be the first to admit it.
Click to expand...

I suppose I would be willing to get behind doing that for 2 or 3 weeks, then gauge their reaction, and change the strategy if needed.
 
malignity

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I'm going to have to agree with Generaldet. I had a few lengthy phone discussion with a few members who thought this was a bad idea once we decided to move from picnic to 'camping on their back door' essentially. We know that Warren PD likes to pick off OCer's one by one and harass us, and if we piss them off, they're only going to make it worse for us. Yes, I understand that it's a blatant abuse of power, however, as we're finding out with another similar case involving the Detroit PD, finding a lawyer to do a civil case in order to spank them on the hand is going to be extremely difficult.

I imagine that the Warren PD probably thinks we're a bunch of militant gun-toting lunatics. While the vast majority of us are not, by showing up on their front door, you best believe that we're not going to be doing anything but reinforcing that belief. It's going to portray us in a negative light, and once the media gets involved, WE'RE going to be the bad guys, regardless of whatever truth there is. The public opinion almost ALWAYS follows and supports the police and other civil servants that attempt to make our lives safer.

I don't know if this has been done or not, but next Warren picnic, I believe that we should all both personally welcome and invite the whole Warren PD to free food and drink at our expense, and maybe that'll be a step in the right direction in showing that hey, we want to come to an agreeance here, and we don't want to be confrontational. Next picnic, if I see a squad car, I personally will have absolutely no problems delivering hot dogs and cans of soda to them if it'll get them to get out of their cars and come join us.
 
FatboyCykes

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malignity wrote:
I'm going to have to agree with Generaldet. I had a few lengthy phone discussion with a few members who thought this was a bad idea once we decided to move from picnic to 'camping on their back door' essentially. We know that Warren PD likes to pick off OCer's one by one and harass us, and if we piss them off, they're only going to make it worse for us. Yes, I understand that it's a blatant abuse of power, however, as we're finding out with another similar case involving the Detroit PD, finding a lawyer to do a civil case in order to spank them on the hand is going to be extremely difficult.

I imagine that the Warren PD probably thinks we're a bunch of militant gun-toting lunatics. While the vast majority of us are not, by showing up on their front door, you best believe that we're not going to be doing anything but reinforcing that belief. It's going to portray us in a negative light, and once the media gets involved, WE'RE going to be the bad guys, regardless of whatever truth there is. The public opinion almost ALWAYS follows and supports the police and other civil servants that attempt to make our lives safer.

I don't know if this has been done or not, but next Warren picnic, I believe that we should all both personally welcome and invite the whole Warren PD to free food and drink at our expense, and maybe that'll be a step in the right direction in showing that hey, we want to come to an agreeance here, and we don't want to be confrontational. Next picnic, if I see a squad car, I personally will have absolutely no problems delivering hot dogs and cans of soda to them if it'll get them to get out of their cars and come join us.
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Works in theory and has been attempted, with no success. Not to dissuade you from attempting it, but we even had two officers stop in for upwards of 45 minutes and chatted us up, but would not accept any food or drink. Worth a shot though!
 
M

mikestilly

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I'm up for an all the above approach. I was thinking last night that while we're at it, it might be a good idea to get some like minded lawyers to see if they would represent us as a group. With knowing that with a large group who can pool their resources they would be more apt in to taking on a defense if necessary. I've spoken to a few lawyers in the past and they commented that the open carry cases are easier then most criminal cases because usually the underlying charges are trumped up. That way if problems were to result for anyone we'd be protected. What do you think?

Mike
 
DanM

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Generaldet wrote:
We consider ourselves a non confrontational group and something like this highly contradicts that statement.
Click to expand...

"Non-confrontational" doesn't mean "doesn't protest abuse of power". I'm a non-confrontational guy, myself. But I've had people in private life and bosses at work who abused or attempted to abuse me, and I got downright vocal, stood up, and quite openly stood against being trod upon.

I may not be there, but I support what these guys want to do in Warren. I think confronting evil and abuse of power is not contradictory to beingbeing generally non-confrontational in all other respects.
 
johnniebravo

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IMHO public protrayl is s key to what we are trying to accomplish also. If we were to get some very favorable media coverage it may force Warren P.D. and others in the state to deal with us on an adult level instead of resorting to the tactics they have. with a favorable public opinion on our side I cant see how it wouldnt work.
 
SlowDog

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Well, IMHO we go through with it and if it means leveling 20-50 Civil Rights Law Suits against Warren PD and the Warren City officials then so be it. A Civil Rights Violation is just that. A violation and must be dealt with peacefully and legally......just saying
 
johnniebravo

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SlowDog wrote:
Well, IMHO we go through with it and if it means leveling 20-50 Civil Rights Law Suits against Warren PD and the Warren City officials then so be it. A Civil Rights Violation is just that. A violation and must be dealt with peacefully and legally......just saying
Click to expand...
As stated before, do you have the 5-10k for a lawyer?
 
SlowDog

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Ok....I agree. A joint fund raiser is a great way to break the ice. I am all for it. But, if someone (LEO) violates our civil rights by arresting us for doing nothing wrong then I am sure there are lawyers in Michigan who are 2'nd amendment friendly who would love a nice case of 20-50 people suing for HUGE amount. They would get their cut off the top and it might teach a lesson.
Again, I agree before anyone beats me over the head to charity events with Warren PD but getting them to agree might not be too hard. From my travels I have learned that LEO's on the street aren't usually what we would have to worry about. It's the Politicians who bow at the alter of the "Brady" anti gunners......just sayin.....
 
H

Haman J.T.

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SlowDog wrote:
Ok....I agree. A joint fund raiser is a great way to break the ice. I am all for it. But, if someone (LEO) violates our civil rights by arresting us for doing nothing wrong then I am sure there are lawyers in Michigan who are 2'nd amendment friendly who would love a nice case of 20-50 people suing for HUGE amount. They would get their cut off the top and it might teach a lesson.
Again, I agree before anyone beats me over the head to charity events with Warren PD but getting them to agree might not be too hard. From my travels I have learned that LEO's on the street aren't usually what we would have to worry about. It's the Politicians who bow at the alter of the "Brady" anti gunners......just sayin.....
Click to expand...
Do not forget that commisioner Dwyer is on the executive commitee of Michigan Citizens for Handgun Control!I believe thats the problem from the top!
 
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