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Thread: Smoking357 Has Been Banned

  1. #1
    Administrator John Pierce's Avatar
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    I have banned Smoking357 for his continuous anti-LEO posts on the forum.

    I have repeatedly asked that those who wish to pursue an anti-law enforcement agenda go elsewhere to do so. OCDO is about normalizing the open carry of firearms by law abiding citizens and that means co-existence with law enforcement. Occasionally, an officer oversteps his bounds WITH REGARDS TO GUN RIGHTS and then we work to address that issue via complaints, training bulletins and lawsuits where necessary. But that is the extent of our bias against law enforcement. Got it People????????

    I do not believe that anyone can say that Mike and I moderate with a heavy hand. If anything, we are criticized for not moderating enough.

    In any case, neither of us have the time to allow people the latitude to tap-dance on the edge of the rules any further. I am sick of getting emails from people complaining about a particular poster and I have to wade through 12 pages of discussion to try and fairly determine if that person REALLY went over the line.

    The short answer is this ... if you repeatedly attack other posters or hijack threads or are just a complete ***hole to everyone, then you may be next.

    Play nice ... talk about open carry, or guns or holsters, or any other politically advantageous topic for gun rights ... but stop the LEO bashing!

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    1
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
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    I would like to say that I do not believe that you or Mike do not moderate enough, I understand you both don't have time for too much of this crap.

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    Regular Member Undertaker's Avatar
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    You guys run an excelent site. I understand that, just like law enforcement, you can't be everywhere all of the time. I'ts YOUR site, you have to do what you have to do sometimes. Anyway, this site has been the most educational and beneficial to me in all my years as a handgun owner. My family and friends have gained agreat deal of knowledge from it as well.

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    jpierce wrote:
    I have banned Smoking357 for his continuous anti-LEO posts on the forum.

    I have repeatedly asked that those who wish to pursue an anti-law enforcement agenda go elsewhere to do so. OCDO is about normalizing the open carry of firearms by law abiding citizens and that means co-existence with law enforcement. Occasionally, an officer oversteps his bounds WITH REGARDS TO GUN RIGHTS and then we work to address that issue via complaints, training bulletins and lawsuits where necessary. But that is the extent of our bias against law enforcement. Got it People????????

    I do not believe that anyone can say that Mike and I moderate with a heavy hand. If anything, we are criticized for not moderating enough.

    In any case, neither of us have the time to allow people the latitude to tap-dance on the edge of the rules any further. I am sick of getting emails from people complaining about a particular poster and I have to wade through 12 pages of discussion to try and fairly determine if that person REALLY went over the line.

    The short answer is this ... if you repeatedly attack other posters or hijack threads or are just a complete ***hole to everyone, then you may be next.

    Play nice ... talk about open carry, or guns or holsters, or any other politically advantageous topic for gun rights ... but stop the LEO bashing!
    Sir .... Carry -0n..

    My old man used to tell us kids that you don't need to be remided to wipe your arse when you take a dump; so why does someone have to tell you how to behave when we (parents) aren't around...?

    Fine site here - a lot of good useful information...!! Keep it coming.... !!!



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    I know a lot of people here are at least a little uncomfortable with some of the banning going on lately. Not to say that, in my personal opinion, they didn't deserve it. We are all in agreement on the principles of freedom and we are always willing to hear the other side and try to logically and factually change their minds to our side. However, and it has been stated more than once, this is more than just a freedom issue. This is also a highly publicized political issue as well and a huge public perception issue as well. Maybe in some future utopia people will be judged based on their actions and not stereotypes and flights of fancy but we are not there. Just like those of us in the DoD, we are held to a high standard. We are to know our jobs, know our tools, know the intricate legalities and behave like professionals. Our society has now become obsessed with perfection so when there is the slightest misstep, it is magnified by 100x. In regards to the recent bannings, yes they have their 1st amendment rights. OTOH, this is Mike's and JP's site and they are well aware of the stakes. I know those who have been banned recently would say something to the effect of "way to go on hosting a homogenous viewpoint and supressing different views" but we're fighting a much bigger battle here. Behave, contribute, debate with facts and reason and you need never fear the banhammer.

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    I have to say thx, you did a good job on the officer forum. I saw a few instances that made me LOL. I had quite the urge to make an account and try to discuss things with them, but they seem to be stuck in their ways and views. All I can really suggest is to read and know the laws for the areas we live in and follow them carefully. Our only recourse is to be judged by our actions and to continue to try and educate the general public with our peaceful, lawful, everyday encounters.

  8. #8
    Regular Member Alexcabbie's Avatar
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    Despite the fears expressed on this forum regarding impending tyranny, and despite the fact that there are certain persons in office who would implement a tyranny if permitted; we are a ways away from having to worry about it so long as we are vigilant and outspoken (and reasonable). The very nature of our political system and our right to speak freely and fearlessly against the government and / or the laws, policies and proposals of the same; added to the fact that a large chunk of the Federal government is up for election every two years; make it all-but-impossible for the wanabe tyrants to pull a fast one. And what we have seen in the past few months shows what happens when they try.

    They expose themselves utterly for the phonies, hypocrites and fools they are.

    PARTICULARLY IN REGARD TO OPEN CARRY note well how they tried to portray us as racists - and were exposed!! Note how they wrote hand-wringing editorials about how LACs patrolling outside the "Town Halls" would foment violence, and note how the only violence has been random beatings of unarmed citizens and a case where one anti bit off a man's finger. All by the other side. And don't think the folks we refer to as "sheeple" don't note this also, and not a few of them, as I have written here before, are beginning to realize where lamb chops come from.

    Through this all, I must say that the vast majority of LEOs are on OUR side. Just as when I tell taxi driver stories they are always about the tiny minority of wacko or dangerous passengers I carry; while the large majority are fine folks and it is a pleasure to serve them; so it is with the cops. Those who do their job don't even register on the radar of most LACs, but when one or two do something horrendous, suddenly every copper is a no-good flatfoot.

    What has been missing in this forum for a while is advocacy of educating the public, the govenment, LEOs, etc about open carry ONE ON ONE AND FACE TO FACE. Each one of us, walking about with our firearm visible, is an ambassador for our movement. Particularly when a fellow citizen, raised on KoolAid, summons the police to report that we are doing nothing illegal, the police generally feel obligated to respond. Generally the encounters are amicable, although sometimes one gets an LEO who has not "gotten the memo".

    In those cases the thing that needs to be going through one's mind is: "This is not the enemy". "Officer" "Sir" and other indicators of respect go a long way. If told to go home and put up the firearm, you might say, "Very well, Officer. Out of respect for you, I will comply." Then go home, and phone in a comment to the officer's department. and follow up with letters to the Chief of Police and whatever other public officials have to do with police policy and training.

    What so many people do not realize about the police is that they know that the BGs are always watching them. And if a BG sees an LEO being forced to "back down", that news is broadcast throughout the criminal subculture in a surprisingly rapid fashion. What many believe to be arrogant behaviour by the police is often an effort to avoid looking weak to the BGs, who are predators. And you know how predators view the weak.

    Of course what I have written here is not "one-size-fits-all", but in about 95% of LAC/LEO encounters it is good advice, IMHO (but IANAL).

    Having said that I am glad that Johm and Mike are not - yet - banning people for stupid jokes. Boy, I'd a been gone months ago.....:celebrate

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    If you will please forgive it.... AHHHAAAAHHHHAAAAHHHAAAAAA!!!!!!! I stooped to being an ******* with him, but his asshattery made me snap.

    Hopefully this will send a message to the nutters out there... Thanks for your hard work John and Mike.

  10. #10
    Regular Member Batousaii's Avatar
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    +1 for Mike and JP and TY for a bit of moderating, and moderation. I think most appreciate keeping the vision clear and the momentum towards a good direction of "Normalising Open Carry". All in all, fully realising this effort would be a dream come true, and seeing the progress in our state of WA has been very exciting. You guys are doing a great job.

    Thank You.

    Bat
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    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    Thank you, Mike for ALL you guys do. It is because of this site I started OCing. I bought a few firearms last year and applied for a Virginia CHP, then started wandering on the internet looking for info on state laws and found your site.

    Since joining this site, I've met some wonderful people and great Patriots. Thank you for everything. If not for you guys, I'd still be CCing, going to dinner alone and shooting alone.

    Thanks for keeping us relatively clown-free.

    Semper Paratus;

    Mike
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
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    Regular Member ADulay's Avatar
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    Admins,

    I read with some interest, the recent banning of "357" from the forum. I was surprised he lasted as long as he did.

    Although every now and then he would come up with perhaps a bit of semi-intelligent posting, most of it was just old fashioned trolling, griping, baiting and pretty much useless web space for the masses.

    I attempted to have a rational discussion with him in a thread or two but as usual, it just went nowhere and the very odd accusations started coming out so I just drifted away from any attempts to discuss anything.

    You have a well run forum here and a lot of very good information for all of us. Do not second guess your decision. You gave the man plenty of time to get his act together and he just continued on his path of destruction.

    Now let's move on and make this forum even better.

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    The best post I saw from 357 was the one where he told me I didn't have to read his post, so I started skipping over his typings to finish through a topic. I feel he was left enough free runto prove his ability to straighten up, and like one before him, something just didn't click.



    Thanks for a good place to hang out fellas, It's gettin better!!:celebrate



    Might be a good time to start a thread called the wall of SHAME, thats two fine trophys for the top two spots..




  14. #14
    Founder's Club Member PrayingForWar's Avatar
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    :celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate :celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate :celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate

    Thank you!!!

    He was nothing more than a bigot. Bigotry isn't just hating black people, and that clown made his contempt for cops, southerners, conservatives, republicans and anyone who questioned his warped world view quite clear. As educated as he made himself out to be, he was still an idiot. Just because you make good grades regurgitating leftist drivel back to a leftist professor, you aren't educated, you're just brainwashed. Good Riddance, this site was and is great, and will likely be enhanced by having one less idiot.


    If you ladies leave my island, if you survive recruit training. You will become a minister of death, PRAYING FOR WAR...

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    Regular Member hopnpop's Avatar
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    jpierce wrote:
    I have banned Smoking357 for his continuous anti-LEO posts on the forum.

    I have repeatedly asked that those who wish to pursue an anti-law enforcement agenda go elsewhere to do so. OCDO is about normalizing the open carry of firearms by law abiding citizens and that means co-existence with law enforcement. Occasionally, an officer oversteps his bounds WITH REGARDS TO GUN RIGHTS and then we work to address that issue via complaints, training bulletins and lawsuits where necessary. But that is the extent of our bias against law enforcement. Got it People????????

    I do not believe that anyone can say that Mike and I moderate with a heavy hand. If anything, we are criticized for not moderating enough.

    In any case, neither of us have the time to allow people the latitude to tap-dance on the edge of the rules any further. I am sick of getting emails from people complaining about a particular poster and I have to wade through 12 pages of discussion to try and fairly determine if that person REALLY went over the line.

    The short answer is this ... if you repeatedly attack other posters or hijack threads or are just a complete ***hole to everyone, then you may be next.

    Play nice ... talk about open carry, or guns or holsters, or any other politically advantageous topic for gun rights ... but stop the LEO bashing!
    +1. No worries, the few who have been banned have been given their chances and chose not to heed their warnings. So be it. I enjoy the mostly positive attitude here. You fellas have done, and are doing a great job and it's appreciated by a huge number of folks - myself included. Kudos, gents.
    No one has ever walked away from a gunfight complaining that he brought too much ammo.

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    John, thanks. I appreciate the job that you and Mike do. It wasn't too soon. I'm sure that you have a few others in your sights as well. Gotta clean house once in a while.

  17. #17
    Regular Member Deanimator's Avatar
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    PrayingForWar wrote:
    He was nothing more than a bigot.
    He was an egomaniacal troll, an agent provocateur or both.

    He always seemed to have the "alt.syntax.tactical" smell about him. For those unfamiliar with usenet newsgroups, there used to be a small group who trolled various discussion fora, doing nothing more than starting flame wars. They would do things like go into pet oriented newsgroups and solicit recipes that called for cat or dog meat.

    The alternative is that he was an AHSA type, out to discredit gun owners. I'm all for calling out bad cops. If you portray ALL cops as criminals, then that dilutes the real meaning of police misconduct. That's something which would benefit both those who don't believe that cops can do ANY wrong, and those who think that anything cops do to harass gun owners is acceptable.

    --- Gun control: The theory that 110lb. women have the "right" to fistfight with 210lb. rapists.

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    Deanimator wrote:
    PrayingForWar wrote:
    He was nothing more than a bigot.
    He was an egomaniacal troll, an agent provocateur or both.

    He always seemed to have the "alt.syntax.tactical" smell about him. For those unfamiliar with usenet newsgroups, there used to be a small group who trolled various discussion fora, doing nothing more than starting flame wars. They would do things like go into pet oriented newsgroups and solicit recipes that called for cat or dog meat.

    The alternative is that he was an AHSA type, out to discredit gun owners. I'm all for calling out bad cops. If you portray ALL cops as criminals, then that dilutes the real meaning of police misconduct. That's something which would benefit both those who don't believe that cops can do ANY wrong, and those who think that anything cops do to harass gun owners is acceptable.
    Well said. And you are correct in your analysis of him. It doesn't take a very in depth Google search to find that he's been doing this sort of thing for some years. INCLUDING the usenet newsgroups. Everything from formula racing, to motorcycles to now firearms. His M.O. is to find statements that will inflame or offend and RUN with them! The resulting reactions only feed his need for attention even more. And, as we've seen time and time again, when faced with logic, fact, and direct questions or arguments against his rhetoric, he either runs and hides or responds with hollow insults.

    I'm personally glad to see him gone. I had stayed away from this site specifically because of him and the admin's indifference. NOW, maybe this group can go back to serving it's purpose.....advancing acceptance and overcoming hurdles to carry, specifically Open Carry. There will always be trolls like smoking-whatever. But, now, perhaps they will quickly learn that kind of behavior isn't permitted here. :celebrate


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    I dunno, seems like Hank has stepped into the void easily enough. I know he's been a troll for quite a while but it seems like it's coming out in the open more now.

  20. #20
    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    Milbars wrote:
    I dunno, seems like Hank has stepped into the void easily enough. I know he's been a troll for quite a while but it seems like it's coming out in the open more now.
    Ignoring him isn't hard to do...
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

  21. #21
    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    Deanimator wrote:
    PrayingForWar wrote:
    He was nothing more than a bigot.
    He was an egomaniacal troll, an agent provocateur or both.

    I don't think smoking357 is the only bigot on OCDO. Plenty of them around, actually. Bigotry runs with extremism. On the left....on the right. And we, uhm, enjoy the wisdom of some extremists here--same as on any gun/rights site.

    Egomaniacal? Sure.

    Troll? Not really. Way more like an high-power argumentalist. Few could engage him in toe-to-toe exchanges of logic, knowledge or opinions. Too often, people call people "troll" simply because they disagree with them and don't have the rhetorical ability to effectively point out the "troll's" errors. It's a catch-all term for: I don't like him and I'm not capable enough to argue with him.

    Agent provocateur? C'mon. Nobody could be that bubba-ish in some kind of FBI entrapment effort.

    As I said before in two recent threads, S357 was making OCDO look bad. Clearly so. That's why John bounced him. S357's cheeky exhortation to start attacking LEOs because"It's time!" done him in.

    Any goofball revolutionary/get the cops/are you with me boys? rabble rouser would make OCDO look bad. Extremism always makes your organization look bad. Heck, I think that some of the shoot-first folks we have here also make OCDO and the gun/rights communities look bad--because they are extremist.

    I support OCDO. I support John andMike.I support 2A and a right to self-defense.

    Still, and I realize that it's not a perfect world and will never be thus, I'm reminded of this quote:




    If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the process of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence.


    Justice Louis D. Brandeis

  22. #22
    Regular Member Alexcabbie's Avatar
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    "Awwwwk!" -

    Child actor Johnathan Brandeis just after kicking out the chair and hanging himself.

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    HankT wrote:
    Deanimator wrote:
    PrayingForWar wrote:
    He was nothing more than a bigot.
    He was an egomaniacal troll, an agent provocateur or both.
    ... Few could engage him in toe-to-toe exchanges of logic, knowledge or opinions...

    Oh puleeze! Logic?!?!?:what: My nephew has a Gerbil that had the ability to employ more LOGIC than that guy!

    Honestly, if he had offered up LOGICAL ideas and viewpoints, I could live with that. Heck, I love nothing more than a good heated LOGICAL debate. The problem with smokingsomething is that when ever anyone replied with a LOGICAL rebuttal or comment regarding his rhetoric, he failed to engage with the same. In fact, he routinely only degraded to name calling, insults, outright lies, or just ignoring it all together. I'm not lying here. The facts are black and white. It only takes a few moments to scan ANY thread he posted. Each and every time he was ever challenged, he resorted to his normal M. O. of duck, dodge, or distract. :quirky

    If he were to ever actually reply to a direct challenge with logical, unemotional dialect. I'd say there may be some truth to your statement. However, his methods are clear. Say something totally stupid, irrelevant, or offensive, then RUN! He NEVER ONCE backed up any statement against challenge without resorting to insults. A sign of a truly uneducated, unintelligent person who is devoid of anything to truly back up anything they say. No one of any academic trainingwould stoop to such adolescent, even, childish "I know you are, but what am I" tactics. I have forsome time,seriously doubted the educational or maturity level he pretended to portray here.

  24. #24
    Regular Member Alexcabbie's Avatar
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    Of course you guys realize he is probably reading all this and is boiling with frustration at not being able to respond......:celebrate

  25. #25
    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    Alexcabbie wrote:
    Of course you guys realize he is probably reading all this and is boiling with frustration at not being able to respond......:celebrate
    You're probably right, AC.

    It would be interesting to read what he would say. Maybe he could post somewhere else and we could read him there?



    Send me a link, S357-- [email redacted]


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