utbagpiper
Banned
imported post
I'm with THX; Fine to discuss, the juvenile personal attacks need to end.
With that, let me point out a few things to consider about age of majority. Primarily we need to remember that this nation has a very long history of granting adult rights in a graduated fashion. As the most stark example, our Federal Constitution has always imposed a minimum age of 35 to serve as President, 30 to serve as federal Senator, and 25 to serve as a Congressman.
Driving ages vary between 14 (or younger for farm equipment not needing a driver license) and 18 depending on jurisdiction.
At one time voting was age 21 (and go back far enough was limited to property holding white males). Voting and the draft and buying tobacco is now set at 18 (19 for tobacco in Utah). 18 is the nationwide age of consent for sex and for signing contracts.
Federal law is 18 to own a gun or to buy a long gun from a dealer, 21 to buy a handgun from a dealer. There are those here hold enough to remember when some States allowed alcohol sales at 18, some did not allow it until 21, and some allowed only weak beer at 18 and everything else at 21.
While we might rationally argue over what rights ought to be extended at what age, or whether the current age limits for various rights make logical sense, I think the notion of graduated bestowal of rights makes good sense.
Modern medical studies confirm the important brain development that takes place between 18 and 21 years of age. Those 18-21 are more likely to be both perpetrators of and victims of violent crime than are those older than 21. The drop that happens at 25 is quite significant.
Sociological studies have confirmed the increased likelihood of binge drinking and eventual alcoholism among those who start drinking regularly prior to 21 vs those who wait until 21 years or older to start engaging in regular drinking. We might also consider the number of 18 year olds still in high school and the number of 18-20 year olds involved in the high school social scene. A drinking age of 21 often results in 18 year old college freshman having easy access to alcohol purhcased legally by classmates. A legal drinking age of 18 results in the same situation for 14 year old high school freshman.
Sgt Jensen or others currently serving in the military can correct me if I'm wrong, but 18 year olds in the military are not simply handed guns or the keys to a tank. They are subjected to intensive and rigorous training, following which they no longer represent typical 18 year olds in the larger population. Even still, their access to weapons (and ammunition for those weapons) is tightly regulated and controlled. And they generally operate under the direction of officers and NCOs who a bit older than 18.
As someone who matured mentally fairly early I was often offended by what I saw as arbitrary and sometimes seemingly irrational age limits to do certain things. As someone now solidly into middle age I can honestly look back and see how much even I matured and mellowed between 18 and 21 and even 21 and 30. Those who do not see any material differences between 18 and 21 year olds (and especially 18 and 21 year old males) may want to consider if they are yet far enough removed from those youthful days to have proper perspective.
Now, that all said, I think any well behaved law abiding 14 year old ought to be perfectly free to carry his .22 or other hunting or target rifle or shotgun to school, stuff it in his locker for the day, and then do some hunting on the way home, or be involved in a competitive shooting team. I do not think those in high school ought to be carrying guns for self defense. And while I think 18 year olds who are graduated from high school ought to be allowed to have a gun for self defense if they desire it (as current law does allow to various degrees), I think most males 18-21 years of age are at a much higher risk of using the gun illegally or unnecessarily than are most females in that age range; and both men and women younger than 21 are more likely to act rashly than men and women older than 21. A little sexism on my part backed up by the difference in testosterone levels between men and women. There are, of course, individual exceptions. Some will read this. But some who read this and think they are they exception are less exceptional than they think; but nothing short of another 10 years of age will likely convince them of that so they should feel free to report back in a decade and let us know if and how their perspective has changed.
Simply put, the old "old enough to vote/die in the army, old enough to do everything" makes for nice sound bites and bumper stickers. But when one examines the science, sociology, and history of our brains and nation, some forms of graduated bestowal of rights makes a lot of sense.
Just some (mostly off topic) food for thought.
Charles
I'm with THX; Fine to discuss, the juvenile personal attacks need to end.
With that, let me point out a few things to consider about age of majority. Primarily we need to remember that this nation has a very long history of granting adult rights in a graduated fashion. As the most stark example, our Federal Constitution has always imposed a minimum age of 35 to serve as President, 30 to serve as federal Senator, and 25 to serve as a Congressman.
Driving ages vary between 14 (or younger for farm equipment not needing a driver license) and 18 depending on jurisdiction.
At one time voting was age 21 (and go back far enough was limited to property holding white males). Voting and the draft and buying tobacco is now set at 18 (19 for tobacco in Utah). 18 is the nationwide age of consent for sex and for signing contracts.
Federal law is 18 to own a gun or to buy a long gun from a dealer, 21 to buy a handgun from a dealer. There are those here hold enough to remember when some States allowed alcohol sales at 18, some did not allow it until 21, and some allowed only weak beer at 18 and everything else at 21.
While we might rationally argue over what rights ought to be extended at what age, or whether the current age limits for various rights make logical sense, I think the notion of graduated bestowal of rights makes good sense.
Modern medical studies confirm the important brain development that takes place between 18 and 21 years of age. Those 18-21 are more likely to be both perpetrators of and victims of violent crime than are those older than 21. The drop that happens at 25 is quite significant.
Sociological studies have confirmed the increased likelihood of binge drinking and eventual alcoholism among those who start drinking regularly prior to 21 vs those who wait until 21 years or older to start engaging in regular drinking. We might also consider the number of 18 year olds still in high school and the number of 18-20 year olds involved in the high school social scene. A drinking age of 21 often results in 18 year old college freshman having easy access to alcohol purhcased legally by classmates. A legal drinking age of 18 results in the same situation for 14 year old high school freshman.
Sgt Jensen or others currently serving in the military can correct me if I'm wrong, but 18 year olds in the military are not simply handed guns or the keys to a tank. They are subjected to intensive and rigorous training, following which they no longer represent typical 18 year olds in the larger population. Even still, their access to weapons (and ammunition for those weapons) is tightly regulated and controlled. And they generally operate under the direction of officers and NCOs who a bit older than 18.
As someone who matured mentally fairly early I was often offended by what I saw as arbitrary and sometimes seemingly irrational age limits to do certain things. As someone now solidly into middle age I can honestly look back and see how much even I matured and mellowed between 18 and 21 and even 21 and 30. Those who do not see any material differences between 18 and 21 year olds (and especially 18 and 21 year old males) may want to consider if they are yet far enough removed from those youthful days to have proper perspective.
Now, that all said, I think any well behaved law abiding 14 year old ought to be perfectly free to carry his .22 or other hunting or target rifle or shotgun to school, stuff it in his locker for the day, and then do some hunting on the way home, or be involved in a competitive shooting team. I do not think those in high school ought to be carrying guns for self defense. And while I think 18 year olds who are graduated from high school ought to be allowed to have a gun for self defense if they desire it (as current law does allow to various degrees), I think most males 18-21 years of age are at a much higher risk of using the gun illegally or unnecessarily than are most females in that age range; and both men and women younger than 21 are more likely to act rashly than men and women older than 21. A little sexism on my part backed up by the difference in testosterone levels between men and women. There are, of course, individual exceptions. Some will read this. But some who read this and think they are they exception are less exceptional than they think; but nothing short of another 10 years of age will likely convince them of that so they should feel free to report back in a decade and let us know if and how their perspective has changed.
Simply put, the old "old enough to vote/die in the army, old enough to do everything" makes for nice sound bites and bumper stickers. But when one examines the science, sociology, and history of our brains and nation, some forms of graduated bestowal of rights makes a lot of sense.
Just some (mostly off topic) food for thought.
Charles
