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Thread: Open Carry: Dog Walk - Topeka, KS

  1. #1
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    I open carried yesterday walking my dog on my normal three mile route. This is the first time I have ever doneanything like this.



    Three police cars did stop and question me but let me go and said I had a legal right to open carry in Topeka so I went on my way and finished walking my dog. By the way one of the police officers came out with a shot gun.



    When I encountered the police I was nervous and goofed up my recorder and didn’t get any video or audio. But I did record the rest of my experience. Below is the link to my video on YOU TUBE.



    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=My4R0pGXIzg



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    good job.. freedom walks are a great thing...

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    My hat isoff to you. My wife and I have wanted to open carry but have been apprehensive to do so since there have been a few arrests of people doing so in our town. Even though its legal.

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    What KS townis this? And how is something that is legal being interpreted to be an arrestable offense? Thanks.

    Rough Rider wrote:
    My hat isoff to you. My wife and I have wanted to open carry but have been apprehensive to do so since there have been a few arrests of people doing so in our town. Even though its legal.

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    OK I gotta admit, this just looks retarded. Yes, I know retarded is a harsh thing to say but here's why I think it is so:

    You are making a SUPER huge deal about the fact that you have a pistol. You are (at least on the video) constantly making gestures to your pistol, tilting the camera down to film the pistol, intentionally walking down the road with your strong side toward traffic, etc. You are wearing a safety vest which further draws attention to you. Lastly, you are expecting a police confrontation and have thoughtfully placed all your ID around your neck so it can be retrieved w/o making furtive movements. You my friend were on a mission to be harassed that day, and it's no surprise to me that you received what you so diligently prepared for.

    I encourage you to continue OC'ing in Topeka, but just treat it like its a normal activity. You won't freak folks out so much is you act normal, and you probably won't have police responding with shotguns (if they respond at all). Lastly, I encourage you to submit a freedom of information request to TPD, you need to assertain exactly how the dispatcher responded to the report of a "man with gun". Did the dispatcher know OC was legal before dispatching "officer shotgun" to your location? Did the 911 caller correctly report the situation? What paperwork did the police generate after the call was closed? You want all of that stuff.


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    Shoplifter-- marine0300 is an activist and we need activists rather than people who sit on their thumbs and keep a pistol in their night stand at home but do nothing to protect their 2A rights.

    The video you saw was instructional in nature, and marine0300 explained what he was doing as he went, so naturally he made some gestures to his pistol, because he needs to illustrate what he's doing for the folks watching so they understand what's happening in the video.

    And yes, he was ready to be stopped and questioned by police and he was SMART to prepare for that outcome, butfrom what I saw he genuinely didn't want any trouble. Even though it’s legal, open carry is NOT a natural act in Topeka, KS and the vast, vast majority of citizens, including many of the cops, don't even know it’s legal. That's the problem. That's why marine0300 made the video- to inform the citizenry. That's why he's putting himself at risk- to make people aware ofthe law in Topekaand that's why I walked my dog with my pistol yesterday afternoon, straight down Gage Blvd. The more normal citizens who are SEEN open carrying, the more peopleget educated and the more voices we have to shout out when someone tries to impinge on 2A rights in this town.

    And the more calls the cops get, the better because they eventually get used to handling them and start asking thecaller "Does the man with the gun have it holstered or in his hand? What is he actually doing? Oh, you say he's got it holstered? ...and he's shopping at the farmer's market? He's not doing anything illegal." before they send "officer shotgun" out.

    I commend both marine0300 for his approach and his video and I also commend the Topeka Police for the way they responded, balancing the concerns of the citizenry with marine0300's rights. Officer Shotgun could have been less aggressive, but give them time, they're not used to responding to these things yet.

    I got a nice honk and a wave yesterday from a uniformed officer in a black low-profile car and I was cruised twice once by a marked car and once by a supervisor's car,but no one stopped me. And I credit marine0300 for that, because he gave the cops some practice over the weekend and made them aware of the law.












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    This was in hays ks. It has happened twice that I know about. I recently requested the cityordinaces so I can see for my self what it actually says.

    captainamerica wrote:
    What KS townis this? And how is something that is legal being interpreted to be an arrestable offense? Thanks.

    Rough Rider wrote:
    My hat isoff to you. My wife and I have wanted to open carry but have been apprehensive to do so since there have been a few arrests of people doing so in our town. Even though its legal.

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    Hey Nakedshoplifter, (I like your handle)

    Thank you for making a post on my thread! I welcome explaining in more detail why I chose to do a video open carry dog walk.

    Remember Kansas has no preemption of open carry so each city and county control its conduct. Only concealed carry has preemption. You are from Virginia and enjoy being a Gold Star open carry state and have full preemption of State laws on your side. Kansas is not that way. So things are very different here.

    In 1981 Topeka banned open carry. Then Kansas in 2006 passed the Family Protection act which authorized concealed carry, shall issue. At that time many localities updated their weapon ordnances to more accurately reflect the state. On February 20th, 2007 Topeka repealed its weapons law completely and adopted the Uniform Public Offense Code, which does not prohibit open carry of firearms. So Topeka has been open carry since 2007.

    This leads us to the present. Just one month ago a fellow Open Carrier emailed the chief of police of Topeka (He is a great police chief and Topeka is lucky to have him) and asked him if we could open carry? The chief responded to him that it was against state law and illegal in Topeka. Well he was wrong on both accounts. Kansas has been open carry since 1861 and obviously Topeka on and off. I emailed my city commissioner and he wrote the chief who emailed the assistant city attorney Catherine Walter for an opinion. She emailed everyone back stating open carry is not illegal in Topeka. I keep a copy with me at all times and have it posted on this site.

    A month ago I had a meeting with Michael Breneman and we tried to figure out how to make darn sure Topeka always keeps Open Carry legal. First phase we decided to let everyone who is friendly to the 2nd Amendment know Topeka is open carry, because no one had a clue. We faxed every gun store, indoor shooting range, Wal Mart, & Dicks a copy of the actual city ordinance and the email from the assistant city attorney.

    You would not believe how many people, with the proof in front of them, still didn’t believe Topeka allows open carry. Topeka had been no gun carry for so long people just can’t believe it, not real. As we speak there are still concealed carry instructors in Topeka telling people open carry is not authorized.

    Next phase we wanted to do something like an open carry trash pick up close to downtown but decided to hold off and think of something a little less provocative. This is where the idea of an open carry dog walk surfaced.

    To answer your point yes I set out to prove and to let everyone know that we could open carry. I felt the only way is to let everyone see it live and make it real. I don’t apologize and would do it over again.

    You are absolutely right when you say OC’er’s should act normal and not bring attention to themselves I can’t agree more. (Every time I or my wife walks we always wear a reflective vest. Too many close calls)

    I also believe until open carry becomes more common people will get offended. In addition I believe open carry is just as important as concealed carry and we need to fight for both rights equally.

    One thing I don’t agree with is some how if I exercise a right it may get taken away. Well I don’t prescribe that train of thought. If we don’t exercise our rights it will become the norm and our electorate will take them away.

    The fight never ends; I thank God everyday for my freedom and guard it jealously.

    Nakedshoplifter I wish you the best and thank you for your support of the 2nd Amendment!

    God speed,

    Earl

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    I cant agree with you more. The media usally doesnt report the events where a gun was used to save a life or prevent a crime. Since this will never change we need to get out there and open carry so that the public realizes that it IS legal and that when they see a gun they dont have to freak out. Once again good job and keep it up!

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    Earl,

    I'm aware of Topeka's open carry history, you informed me on Feb 18, 2009 - see: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_to...mp;forum_id=24 Again, I heartily THANK YOU for bringing that info to my attention. I will be OC'ing in Topeka when I visit from now on.

    The reason CC instructors won't tell the honest truth that OC is legal (even when presented with the facts in black and white text) is because they are making money selling a class that is required for CC. It's not in their business interest to tell folks "you can waste $200 on my class, fill out paperwork, and pay the state for a CC permit... or just OC for free". I think my reasoning is fairly sound on that one, right?

    I applaud your activism and I'd like to shake your hand next time I'm in town. But I still stand by my comment that what you did could have been done in a more intelligent manner. Police have this idea that OCDO members are trying to "set them up" when we carry voice recorders and such, not knowing that (carrying recorders) is standard SOP around here on OCDO...and it keeps both parties honest at the end of the day. I took exception to the fact that you went out of your way to rub OC in the face of everyone and several times in the video you mention how you've gone way outta your way to make sure everyone noticed the fact you're armed. You also make several references about seeing if you can "get anyone excited" because you are walking around with a firearm. Good grief! After you had the encounter /w the three police you wonder how many more calls can I get? Ask some of the veteran OC'ers here on this forum, they will all back me up when I tell you this is not acceptable behavior and the image we want to present to the community. This presents a very bad image, the image being "I knew what I was doing was not common but I did it anyways to make a point. I intentionally went out to terrorize the community and see how many 911 calls I could garner before TPD came and felony stopped me with a shotgun. But, I was within my legal rights to open carry!". Actions like that will have the city council making some new laws with a quickness.

    Keep up your activism, but just keep in mind:
    a) what is the local communities perception of my actions?
    b) does this serve to foster or degrade relations between OC'ers and local LEO's?
    c) if you continue OC in Topeka, be prepared for local media interest for interviews, it WILL happen. THINK about your response before responding. Don't talk to them as if it's a free flowing conversation. Some media outlets have an agenda. Under NO circumstance would I agree to be interviewed by KTKA ABC 49.

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    Nakedshoplifter,

    First of all you have taken my video out of context and your using small moments and reinventing them into something they’re not.

    Also, stating that I went out to terrorize my community is crossing the line and I don’t appreciate it. I am asking for that specific comment an apology from you.

    Please don’t lecture me anymore you have said your peace and I have listened to your criticism. I don’t agree with some things you have stated but I have put myself in a position to be criticized and I accept it.

    Any more from you and you’re making it personal.

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    Shoplifter,Your characterization of marine0300 as a retarded terrorist (yea, I parsed that but it’s what you said) is inappropriate and unfair.

    You've offer some good suggestions, but they get lost when paired with name-calling, lecturing anda general disparagement ofthe work of others. You suggest that marine0300 was acting abnormally and terrorizing his neighborhood. What part specifically was abnormal? Walking his dog, wearing a vest for safety.... I sure hope you're not going to say it was the fact that he was carrying a pistol, that made him some kind of terrorist.

    You suggest the city council might decide to pass a few new laws and you may be right. But it is only a matter of time before someone tries anyway. And if we haven't educated anyone, who will show up at the meeting to oppose a new infringement on our 2A rights? Me and marine0300 and that's about it.

    Your strategy of preserving your2A rightsby practicing them in secret, where no one can see, so that you don't upset someone's delicate sensitivities is intriguing. I wonder if that would work to preserve our other constitutionally guaranteed rights, as well. Maybe we go too far in our right to assemble when we have freedom concerts or tea parties. If we don't use discretion, we might findour "permit" to assemble is denied by the city. And we should take care not to offend withthe practice of our religionas well... maybe best to do that at home, rather than pray over a meal in a public restaurant- ornext time we go outwe couldfindpolite little signs requesting no prayer in public places. And freedom of speech only goes so far right? I mean just be discerning in whatyou say when you exercise your right tofree speech so you don't cause any anxiety in the hearts of those who hold an opposing viewpoint. And if you really must voice a viewpoint that isn't quite mainstream, see if you can keep it confined to your garage, with just a few of your buddies while you enjoy some beers… then you can blame it on the beer. And while you're guaranteed privacy in your person, propertyand papers, you should probably grant access to your home when an authority wants to come in, even if they don't have a warrant, because to do so would be pretty extreme and certainly not cooperative.

    Huh... that same logic that you use to preserve your 2A rights could be used to fight tyranny across the planet. Until all our right are actually gone, taken one by one.

    I invite you to share with the forum, some of the pro-active things you've done to preserve your 2A rights... hell ANY of your rights, in beautiful open-carry Virginia. Do you talk the talk or do you walk the walk as well?

    Well, I'm walking down to the corner store to get some fule for my mower... you don't think it wouldupset people if I carried a fuel can and my pistol at the same time do you? I mean that's right up there with walking a dog and wearing a traffic vest. I'll look forward to reading about the work you've personally done to preserve your rights, when I get back. -Mike

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    Shoplifter,Your characterization of marine0300 as a retarded terrorist (yea, I parsed that but it’s what you said) is inappropriate and unfair.

    You've offer some good suggestions, but they get lost when paired with name-calling, lecturing anda general disparagement ofthe work of others. You suggest that marine0300 was acting abnormally and terrorizing his neighborhood. What part specifically was abnormal? Walking his dog, wearing a vest for safety.... I sure hope you're not going to say it was the fact that he was carrying a pistol, that made him some kind of terrorist.

    You suggest the city council might decide to pass a few new laws and you may be right. But it is only a matter of time before someone tries anyway. And if we haven't educated anyone, who will show up at the meeting to oppose a new infringement on our 2A rights? Me and marine0300 and that's about it.

    Your strategy of preserving your2A rightsby practicing them in secret, where no one can see, so that you don't upset someone's delicate sensitivities is intriguing. I wonder if that would work to preserve our other constitutionally guaranteed rights, as well. Maybe we go too far in our right to assemble when we have freedom concerts or tea parties. If we don't use discretion, we might findour "permit" to assemble is denied by the city. And we should take care not to offend withthe practice of our religionas well... maybe best to do that at home, rather than pray over a meal in a public restaurant- ornext time we go outwe couldfindpolite little signs requesting no prayer in public places. And freedom of speech only goes so far right? I mean just be discerning in whatyou say when you exercise your right tofree speech so you don't cause any anxiety in the hearts of those who hold an opposing viewpoint. And if you really must voice a viewpoint that isn't quite mainstream, see if you can keep it confined to your garage, with just a few of your buddies while you enjoy some beers… then you can blame it on the beer. And while you're guaranteed privacy in your person, propertyand papers, you should probably grant access to your home when an authority wants to come in, even if they don't have a warrant, because to do so would be pretty extreme and certainly not cooperative.

    Huh... that same logic that you use to preserve your 2A rights could be used to fight tyranny across the planet. Until all our right are actually gone, taken one by one.

    I invite you to share with the forum, some of the pro-active things you've done to preserve your 2A rights... hell ANY of your rights, in beautiful open-carry Virginia. Do you talk the talk or do you walk the walk as well?

    Well, I'm walking down to the corner store to get some fule for my mower... you don't think it wouldupset people if I carried a fuel can and my pistol at the same time do you? I mean that's right up there with walking a dog and wearing a traffic vest. I'll look forward to reading about the work you've personally done to preserve your rights, when I get back. -Mike

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    Michael Breneman wrote:
    Shoplifter,Your characterization of marine0300 as a retarded terrorist (yea, I parsed that but it’s what you said) is inappropriate and unfair.

    You've offer some good suggestions, but they get lost when paired with name-calling, lecturing anda general disparagement ofthe work of others. You suggest that marine0300 was acting abnormally and terrorizing his neighborhood.....
    I invite you to share with the forum, some of the pro-active things you've done to preserve your 2A rights... hell ANY of your rights, in beautiful open-carry Virginia. Do you talk the talk or do you walk the walk as well?

    Well, I'm walking down to the corner store to get some fule for my mower... you don't think it wouldupset people if I carried a fuel can and my pistol at the same time do you? I mean that's right up there with walking a dog and wearing a traffic vest. I'll look forward to reading about the work you've personally done to preserve your rights, when I get back. -Mike
    NSL is entitled to his opinions, I'm sure all would agree.

    As far as what he has reported doing in VA, I recall that, representing OCDO and (VCDL?) he and his video cam attended some Million Mom March meetings a long while ago with the intent of video recording them (perfectly legal to film public meetings). He didn't actually video record them---the moms talked him out of it somehow....

    But he was ready to video record them. That's the main thing...

    I do recall that when someone spoke critically about his failure to do the video recording he had set out to do and suggested some alternative approaches.....whyNSL....moaned and groaned about how unfair it was!

    Shoe's on the other foot now, I guess.

    Again,NSL is entitled to his opinions, I'm sure all would agree. MB, too.







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    I have kept my mouth shut and not replied, because obviously neither of you can take criticism. But if YOU think I practice my 2A rights in secret, you don't know me. Especially you, "Mr. 3 posts count" on OCDO.

    All of this is my work:

    www.vaguninfo.com

    Here's me shutting down anti-gun liars in my community:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAsyrBTvN2g
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lc8uXTfpdHM
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CnDvnPFzL0

    Here's me filming the police at one of our picnics:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fh6dbWl4l_4
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2WjvLT4CCc
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyQXLXRFFbg
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlGIHSeG260

    And there's more. Openly carrying at city council meetings to complain about harassment. Open carry dinners. Picnics. Litter pick-ups. And the rest of the youtube vids under username "nakedshoplifrter" AND "vaguninfo".

    I've been doing this for YEARS and I'm NOT wet behind the ears. I know how to deal with the community, police, and anti-gunners. So please, spare me your humility, wise 2A warrior. I told you my opinion, and it's just that... an opinion. But when you get the city council to legislate OC out of existence again, you can only blame yourselves. Not because you were afraid to exercise the right, but because you didn't do it intelligently.

    Yeah, I sit on my butt and let others do the activism for me, keep believing that. I'm done trying to help you. You do what you think is best, at least you will only get OC banned in Topeka and hopefully not a wider area like statewide (because silly state laws are made in that Taj Mahal on KS Ave. Your actions could affect the entire state!).

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    "He didn't actually video record them---the moms talked him out of it somehow...."

    Haha nice try hank, the OCDO troll. The videos I linked to have me FILMING the Million Mom March Meeting. Try again sometime later! For the record, the MMM have not held one single meeting SINCE WE (yes, "we" not I, "NSL", because it wasn't just me that did this, or do you not remember, hank?) shut them down.

    Here, maybe this will refresh you:
    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_to...ghlight=mmmers

    Anways, I'm done here. Y'all do what's best.



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    Hey HankT,

    Thank you for your post. You are correct when you say NSL has a right to his opinion. Amen!

    But what Michael and myself disagree with is NSL’s name calling. He called me a "retarded - terrorist"Retarded in his first post and terrorist in his second.

    I didn't really care about the first post he had his opinion and I accepted it fully! I asked for itby posting my video on line.

    But I believe he crossed the line in the 2nd post by calling me a terrorist and making points that weren’t even valid just trying to incite me.

    Surely you don’t believe name calling is appropriate?

    And another thing he is not in the fight for Kansas. He says he visits here but I don’t know what that means?

    In NSL’s post he:

    1- calls me derogatory names
    2- compliments me & wants to shake my hand
    3- Then lectures me on how to be an activist and instructs me about my own community!

    I want opinions all day long and very strong constructive criticism but not name calling. NSL’s ruins it all by being hateful.

    NSL seems like an ok person but a person can beat a dead horse to death. Also, if NSL’s (from Virginia) going to lecture me a life long resident of Kansas about my city! He should identify his relationship. You wouldn’t like me coming into the Virginia state thread and telling the honest citizens of the Common Wealth how to do their business?

    I am thankful we have opencarry.org and will continue to blog and follow national events here. One thing I won’t do is call names and run people down, won’t happen.

    Until open carry is fully accepted again it will inspire debate. What a wonderful blessing to be an American!

    Earl

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    marine0300 wrote:
    Hey HankT,

    Thank you for your post. You are correct when you say NSL has a right to his opinion. Amen!

    But what Michael and myself disagree with is NSL’s name calling. He called me a "retarded - terrorist"Retarded in his first post and terrorist in his second.

    I didn't really care about the first post he had his opinion and I accepted it fully! I asked for itby posting my video on line.

    But I believe he crossed the line in the 2nd post by calling me a terrorist and making points that weren’t even valid just trying to incite me.

    Surely you don’t believe name calling is appropriate?

    And another thing he is not in the fight for Kansas. He says he visits here but I don’t know what that means?

    In NSL’s post he:

    1- calls me derogatory names
    2- compliments me & wants to shake my hand
    3- Then lectures me on how to be an activist and instructs me about my own community!

    I want opinions all day long and very strong constructive criticism but not name calling. NSL’s ruins it all by being hateful.

    NSL seems like an ok person but a person can beat a dead horse to death. Also, if NSL’s (from Virginia) going to lecture me a life long resident of Kansas about my city! He should identify his relationship. You wouldn’t like me coming into the Virginia state thread and telling the honest citizens of the Common Wealth how to do their business?

    I am thankful we have opencarry.org and will continue to blog and follow national events here. One thing I won’t do is call names and run people down, won’t happen.

    Until open carry is fully accepted again it will inspire debate. What a wonderful blessing to be an American!

    Marine0300, I hear you.

    But you gotta remember that NSL is part of a self-proclaimed "elite" on this forum. Just look at his avatar which reads "OCDO Old Guard The First 1000".

    This "elitism" plays out whenever criticism is involved. Basically, he thinks he is above criticism (e.g., for not taping certain MMM meetings when he said he was going to) but is quick to criticize others and even call them names.

    Ahh, but that's what "elites" do: they make rules for others and different rules for themselves...

    Best of luck in your activism, marine0300.

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    There you go again Shoplifter, suggesting that we'll get our 2A rights taken away in Topeka... by exercising our 2A rights. Do you seriously believe that?


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    Okay, so inspired by Earl's work I took my own stab at filming an open-carry dog walk and I tried to intersperse some pointers as well, as I walked. I talked with a few pedestrians and didn't have any encounters with LEOs, which was awesome.

    So please share your comments and criticisms, but let's leave out the name calling, if you don't mind.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MV2uoSgIROs

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    DING DING DING We have a Winnahh!! Only comment I have: You made the mistake of calling this a "concealed carry dog walk" twice at the end (but that's not a big deal). Normally dressed, normal acting, no problems. As it should be. Now go get MORE folks to join you, and start doing it during your daily routine, not just when walking the dog, and beware of those no guns signs that have become the fad in Topeka. I know I said I was done in this thread before, now I'm really DONE. Tah-tah.

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    We have another Open Carry Dog Walk video by Topeka’s own Michael Breneman

    Not only does Michael OC he uses his video to instruct, inform, and help people understand what Open Carry is all about and why we should do.

    I did not know he was doing this and I really applaud his efforts. Michael bleeds the 2nd Amendment!!!

    Please watch the video and make comments and suggestions and let’s have someone else step up to the plate and make an open carry video anywhere in Kansas.



    ps: at the end of his video he accidently calls his Open Carry a Concealed Carry Dog Walk. He realizes the error.



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    Yep, my bad. Being a CCW permit holder and an advocate of both CCW and open carry, I guess I got my wires crossed. But I intend to continue to O/C whenever I can work it into my routine.

    Earl and I are looking to build a 2nd amendment protectorate here in Topeka. We need people who will help us attend our city and state's public meetings to keep an eye on what our friendly elected officials are doing. If anyone is willing to spend some time on this work with us, please contact either Earl or myself.

  24. #24
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Lawrence, Kansas, USA
    Posts
    22

    Post imported post

    I just recently was made aware of the change prompted by the court's decision. If it is now the law I have no objection to it. It is important, when carrying openly, to act as if it is a perfectly normal thing to do. I was previously against open carry, favoring concealed carry. I spent my entire career enforcing the law, I am open to the change which will give the new law a chance. If enough people carry a firearm openly, and people get used to it, it may not frighten them anymore. I think the response with the shotgun was too much, and possibly that officer was a rookie. It will make officers jobs more difficult until they have enough man with a "holstered" gun calls, then they too will come to accept it as more normal. After all we have been trained to consider anyone with a gun as a threat to us. In fact when we are talking with the person we have been trained to take the gun, and perhaps unload it, until our investigation is over. So you must expect that for a while. I am very pro second amendment, many peace officers are. We still rely on our training as automatic, we simply do and act as we were trained to do until we have enough time to respond to a change in the law, and are trained as such. By law we have to have at least 40 hours of in-service training a year, partly to learn new legislation and how to respond to it. Criminals may start carrying openly, and that is going to cause a real problem. We know most of the criminals by sight, and if they had a felony, or on parole or probation, most cannot own or carry any type of firearm. So the reaction of considering a man with a gun a threat will kick back in. It will make our jobs more difficult, no way around it. It is the law and we will adapt. Just be patient and give us time. Try and put yourself in the place of a peace officer, coming upon a person carrying a gun in a holster or stuck in their waistband, what would you do? How would you react?

  25. #25
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Hutch/Wichita ~ Missing Littleton, Co :(, Kansas, USA
    Posts
    91

    Post imported post

    Out of professional curiosity, which county do you work for KSDeputy? We may receive our paychecks by the same people. It would be a pleasant surprise to find have already meet another OCDOer in Kansas without realizing it.

    AC

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