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Do Virgina Community Colleges Fall Under the Preemption?

peter nap

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Mike wrote:
skidmark wrote:
We now have lawyers, law students and attorneys (go check the definitions of #1 & #3 if you need to understand the distinction) disagreeing on whether or not post-secondary state schools are covered by 15.2-915.
And as a formal AG Opinion was issued on the legality of college restrictions on carry rights, as well as a Fairfax County Circuit Judge in he GMU case recently, and both failed to conclude that a state college was a 'locality" within the nmeaning of 15.2-915, I think this so-called "disagreement" is pretty one sided.
I have to go along with Mike although User, as usual, has very good technical arguments.

A lot of these discussions remind me of my early motorcycle riding days. When Virginia passed the helmet law, a LOT of riders, myself included, started wearing our helmets on our knee. The law just said I had to wear one.
I got a ticket and a lecture from the Judge (and a fine).

The devil may be in the details but the law is what the Judge says:lol:

My father, a lawyer, shook his head and said "Know everything, don't you boy!"
 

VaLiberty

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nova wrote:
Well from my time spent at GMU I've already seen they apply their gun ban to some people and not to others. I've watched several people open carrying firearms in a few different buildings carrying bags of money.

Guess GMU values it's cash more than the lives of people. :X
It is a well known fact that the rights of Super-Citizens (corporations) outweigh those of us low class average joe's.

In DC:

A business owner may keep and bear arms to protect himself
Businesses regularly have armed 'private security' - Armored Cars, Celebs, various 'attractions' - ie: Holocaust Museum, etc. All have the privileged of full time, private security guards. Because I am not of the same caste, I may not protect myself or my own commercial interests. I bring revenue into DC on a daily basis, but am not afforded the same rights of protection as those carrying cold hard cash.

Private property owners (malls) regularly allow the folks who operate the ATM's, and stock them with money to carry openly. My favorite, now that the weather is starting to cool, is to watch for low buck security guards inadvertantly carrying concealed. The BOA's around Annandale all have a very visible security guard posted outside, and I have already seen one with their coat covering their piece.

thus, as they say, always to tyrants.
 

nova

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VaLiberty wrote:
nova wrote:
Well from my time spent at GMU I've already seen they apply their gun ban to some people and not to others. I've watched several people open carrying firearms in a few different buildings carrying bags of money.

Guess GMU values it's cash more than the lives of people. :X
It is a well known fact that the rights of Super-Citizens (corporations) outweigh those of us low class average joe's.

In DC:

A business owner may keep and bear arms to protect himself
Businesses regularly have armed 'private security' - Armored Cars, Celebs, various 'attractions' - ie: Holocaust Museum, etc. All have the privileged of full time, private security guards. Because I am not of the same caste, I may not protect myself or my own commercial interests. I bring revenue into DC on a daily basis, but am not afforded the same rights of protection as those carrying cold hard cash.

Private property owners (malls) regularly allow the folks who operate the ATM's, and stock them with money to carry openly. My favorite, now that the weather is starting to cool, is to watch for low buck security guards inadvertantly carrying concealed. The BOA's around Annandale all have a very visible security guard posted outside, and I have already seen one with their coat covering their piece.

thus, as they say, always to tyrants.
I agree with you, except for the first set examples they're actually exempted or allowed by law whereas with GMU the regulation specifically says "police officer" and defines the term as as "law enforcement officials" and "sworn federal law enforcement officers".

It also says "In addition to individuals authorized by university policy, George Mason University police officers are lawfully in charge for the purposes of forbidding entry upon or remaining upon university property while possessing or carrying weapons in violation of this prohibition."

The armored car guys are not sworn law enforcement or LEOs in any way, and are not authorized by university policy to act as such at GMU.
 

nova

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VaLiberty wrote:
nova wrote:
The armored car guys are not sworn law enforcement or LEOs in any way, and are not authorized by university policy to act as such at GMU.
They may be Special Conservators of the Peace : http://www.dcjs.virginia.gov/pss/howto/registrations/scop.cfm
ya know this really interests me so please don't think I'm arguing or trying to pick an internet fight...I'm just bored and have lots of time on my hands between classes and being GMU I have a personal interest in the matter. I looked into Dunbar as well as Wells Fargo Loomis (I don't recall which I saw at GMU, but I'm leaning towards the red Dunbar truck) anyhow on both of their websites it lists under requirements for employment that you must have a valid weapons permit from the state you're working in (on the other site it uses the term 'gun permit'). Both use the job title "driver/guard" so one can assume they are similar to any other armed security guard. Just being a licensed armed security guard in VA does not make one a conservator of the peace.
 

user

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... No, but one does have to have a special license which requires passing the Department of Criminal Justice Services weapons course etc.
 

SlackwareRobert

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Could you carry in the GMU student union, or only before 10am
till the bar opened?
I liked the campus, but couldn't handle the accents of the professors.
 

user

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leprechaun117 wrote:
VaLiberty wrote:
hometheaterman wrote:
As the title says do Virginia Community Colleges fall under the preemption? Aren't they state funded? Just wondering here.

If they fall under the same rules as GMU, then no (not yet).

http://www.virginia1774.org/GMULawsuit.html


If they fall under the same rules as UVA they are included. See Attorney General OP. NO. 05-078.

I've been thinking about this one. I was thinking before that attorneys general are elected officials whose answers generally reflect their own political viewpoints, and that this one was just plain wrong.

What finally occurred to me is that the question to which Mr. Deeds was responding did not trigger any analysis of § 15.2-319 at all. So it wasn't wrong; in fact it was a very well reasoned and written opinion. It just didn't go far enough. That makes sense, because one wouldn't normally go to the "Cities, Counties and Towns" title of the Code to see what a college or university may do.

But I stand by my prior analysis. Where there is no specific statute authorizing a restriction on the possession of weapons, no agency or "authority" of the Commonwealth may enact regulations restricting the right of self defense by carrying firearms.

With respect to GMU, in particular, the Code contains the following language as part of the grant of authority:

§ 23-91.29. Powers and duties of board generally; meetings; officers; executive committee.

(a) The board of visitors shall be vested with all the rights and powers conferred by the provisions of this title insofar as the same are not inconsistent with the provisions of this chapter and the general laws of the Commonwealth. ...
(emphasis added).

I suggest that any regulation enacted by GMU's Board of Visitors that is inconsistent with Va. Code § 15.1-319 is void as an ultra vires act. The cited opinion of the Attorney General is not controlling because it did not consider whether or not UVa's regulation was inconsistent with § 15.1-319 (the operative statutory language was added in 2004, two years prior to the date of the opinion).
 

All American Nightmare

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Mike wrote:
nova wrote:
Hell the GMU and VCU things aren't even actual laws.
Actually, regulations are laws.

State agencies do not fall under the preemption statute because they are not localities. See 15.2-915.

However, state agencies are impliedly preempted from enacting firearm regulations when (1) promulgation of such regulations fall outside their statutory grant of power, or (2) the legislature has comprehensively occupied the field of regulation already, e.g., the Ag opinion's on state parks which state that the right to carry openly or concealed is universal in the commonwealth save where the General Assembly has said otherwise.

But see the AG opinion on college carry.
So is carry allowed openly or concealed in state agencies such asDMV, VDOT, and dept of game and inland fisheries ?I have carried openly at DMV on broad street and the one in Chester many times. I have also carried openly at the Henrico county police station on two occasions once with a problem and once without. I would think since these buildings are considered pubic it should be legal and covered by preemption. Since state and county public buildings arepreempted .
 

tag

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Mike wrote:
xdm guy wrote:
So is carry allowed openly or concealed in state agencies such asDMV, VDOT, and dept of game and inland fisheries ?
Apparently yes because they have not enacted any regulation banning such carry.
What about the DMV in Springfield Mall? (Springfield Mall rules prohibit the possession of a weapon except for LE)
 

user

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xdm guy wrote:
Mike wrote:
xdm guy wrote:
So is carry allowed openly or concealed in state agencies such as DMV, VDOT, and dept of game and inland fisheries ?
Apparently yes because they have not enacted any regulation banning such carry.
But do they have to power to enact the regulation  to do so ?

No.
 

user

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Problem is, private property owner can say no guns, and you've got to traverse private property to get to the DMV.
 

MSC 45ACP

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I've heard the horror stories of the Gun Free Criminal Zone at Springfield Mall. That is really sad. Springfield Mall was THE place to hang out when I was in High School in NoVa around 81-83.

It was a beautiful place with LOTS of pretty girls! Back then, the female to male ratio in NoVa was 3:1. Even with those odds, I didn't get many dates. I was too shy.
 

peter nap

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user wrote:
Problem is, private property owner can say no guns, and you've got to traverse private property to get to the DMV.

I'm not so sure they can say no under those circumstances. DMV patrons certainly have the right to ingress and egress. Can the property owner apply arbitrary restrictions on who can come and go to a State building that i renting space on their property.

Suppose the property owner didn't like truckers and decided no one with a CDL could enter the DMV.
 
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