TiP
Regular Member
imported post
All right friends, after lurking on this forum for several months now, I've finally decided to take the plunge and join up. This shall be my inaugural post; and it'll be quite a doozy -- I'd first like to apologise for pouring my heart out onto a forum where I have good reason to think that it won't exactly be received with open arms (just read the whole thing through and it'll be quite clear why); and I'd secondly like to apologise for relaying very personal details which, while integral to understanding what has happened, may put some people off or cause them to look down upon me with contempt -- however, as you shall soon see, these details form a central part of the narrative which is my life, and to omit them would leave critical events without a primary explanation.
Secondly, let me state my unequivocal support for OC and all of the issues wrapped up in it; and that my main motivation for getting the CHL is to remove the burden placed on me by the onerous legal restrictions that my city, and others, place upon OC; not so much to CC, unless the situation demands it, but rather to solidify my legal position relative to OCing. I already OC in all situations that I can (which given the city in which I reside, are not many), and would like to expand those situations to the legal maximum.
As a preface to my little story, I'd like to mention that I completed the Hunter's Education Safety & Training Course several years ago, when it was still possible to attend such a course at a private home (apparently since then, there have been draconian insurance requirements placed on those who teach the classes, and this accounts for the dearth of available Hunter's Ed courses in my local area), so I have no worries about meeting the 'training' portion of the legal requirements for obtaining a CHP.
So the prologue of my story begins when I was 21 and originally applied for my CHP (I had completed Hunter's Ed in my teens). I was denied under the so-called "willies" clause (ORS 166.293(2) ) on the basis that I had, at the time, a seizure disease which was treatable only with the use of marijuana (although controversial, this was a LEGAL use since I did possess a legal OMMP card; and although inconsequential in this part of the story, my use of marijuana features prominently in matters which will be discussed soon). At the hearing I petitioned for (under ORS 166.293(5)-166.293(12) ), the Sheriff, Rob Gordon, explained that although I had demonstrated that my seizures were well controlled, and that I had demonstrated a two-year-plus period of seizure-free living, the off-chance that I might suffer a seizure in a public place, thus rendering personal control of my weapon impossible, constituted "reasonable grounds to believe" that I would be "reasonably likely to be a danger to self or others, or to the community at large, as a result of [my] mental or psychological state". Despite evidence that I presented (sadly, my financial situation forced me to appear pro-se, i.e. represent myself) that I had a type of seizure disorder which had, as one of its characteristics, an "aura" (a perceptible warning that a seizure was going to occur within 5-45 minutes) which allowed me to remove myself from any public situation and medicate myself to prevent the seizure, thus rendering the Sheriff's objections medically without merit -- the denial was upheld. (Immediately after the hearing was concluded, I asked the judge about the basis for his decision; he replied that the Sheriff had "met the burden of proof", and that was all the explanation I received.)
So a few years later, after more doctors and more experimental medications and more intrusive examinations, I finally was rid of the seizure disorder through a combination of hypnotherapy and an experimental drug (I won't get into that here, since it would require an explanation four or five times as long as this entire post would be, and besides, it's not germane to the discussion of firearms or firearms issues). I turned in my OMMP card, and for more than two years, I had nothing whatsoever to do with marijuana. Eventually, however, I decided to start using it again, primarily for relaxation (I know, I know, there is no excuse for breaking any law, EVER, but allow me to briefly explain: For eight years, I had to smoke the stuff every single day, without EVER being able to feel the fun relaxation that my friends were able to enjoy, due to habituation over time [remember, I wasn't smoking for pleasure then; merely to stave off seizures, and so I didn't 'ramp up' my consumption over time like most "potheads" do]; and, having had to suffer through its use for years, I felt a little bit of entitlement to enjoy what had been previously unenjoyable for me. (Although I don't want this to get twisted into a political discussion about marijuana, I feel that I need to mention that there are literally MILLIONS of otherwise-law-abiding Americans who would rather light up after a stressful day then knock back a few beers; and I know I am not unique in this regard.)
So a couple of years passed, my wife and I had a daughter, and it was around this time that I discovered this grand website, and decided to again "get involved" with guns and shooting and OCing, and all the fun that entails (since I was unsuccessful in obtaining my CHL, I had to be rather careful about where and how I OC, seeing as CCing wasn't an option).
So, I had just managed to mentally 'settle-in' to the new role of father when a particularly pernicious incident unfolded... As a consequence of my stepfather's death a couple of years ago, my mother insisted that my wife and I 'come back home to stay' with her, both for her own emotional wellbeing as well as helping out with the numerous household chores which she had become unable to take on by herself; so we agreed, and all was well.
It came to be that our house became rather crowded: my wife and I, and our new daughter, living with my mother, as well as my younger sister and my younger brother, and my brother's friend as his roommate (an even longer story; he'd been forced out of his own home by his parents, and my mother frequently takes pity on the less fortunate). And so it was, that the brother's friend had a girlfriend who would come and see him (at our house) from time to time; and one of these times my mother caught the two of them 'between the sheets' together. (One of the rules here is that there is no sex between unmarried people -- she just won't put up with it at all.) The predictable "get out of my house" speech quickly followed.
And so about two weeks after this prelude to disaster had occured, I was out and about buying groceries when a Child Welfare/CPS worker came to the house and demanded drug tests from everyone, insisting that he had reports that we "were all using cocaine and leaving the baby unattended for hours on end". (Naturally, neither of these things were true, but that didn't matter to the caseworker.) He said that he'd return the next day, which he dutifully did. The next day when he came back, he told me that "we're not interested in weed-smoking or anything like that, but we need to make sure that there's no cocaine use here" in order to get my wife and I to submit to urinalysis tests. (Shortly later I found this to be a damned lie!) Thinking that he was being honest, and knowing that I had never used cocaine (so I thought this would be a quick matter to disprove and put to rest), we agreed and took the test.
About a week later, another caseworker, accompanied by WCSO officers, arrive at the house, and claim that since we both tested positive for marijuana, that they had the evidence of child abuse they needed, and they ripped our little infant child from our arms. (As a brief commentary -- but not to derail the discussion which I hope will follow -- there are MILLIONS of otherwise-law-abiding parents who use marijuana in their own homes, without exposing their children to the smoke, or even letting them know about this behaviour; we also fall into this category [changing clothes, washing face & hands, using airfilters in both smoking room and baby's room, etc. etc.]; are they just as 'guilty' of "child abuse" as we are?)
This happened in May of this year; since then, we have been abstinent, gone to drug counseling, are setting up parenting classes, and generally "jumping through" allof the "hoops" that the Court has demanded of us, so that we may have our child returned to us.
Throughout this whole process, no criminal charges were filed against either of us, nor was any mention made of the numerous guns which I own and keep (locked up, of course) in the house; since it was never alleged that the child was in physical danger from either of us, merely that the smoking of marijuana ITSELF was the act that constituted the alleged "child abuse", not any particular action to the baby by either of us.
Now, it goes without saying that I've now learned my lesson about marijuana ("never again", etc. etc.), but with all of the relevant history laid out before you, dear friends, it's time to ask my real questions.
1.) Since I meet the requirements for training, no criminal record, etc. etc. for issuance of the CHL, should I apply at this time?
2.) Should I apply on my own, or should I take one of the CHL classes? (It's my understanding that at the end of the class, they actually submit the paperwork for you, in a batch with the other class attendees.)
3.) If not now, should I wait until this entire Child Welfare imbroglio is concluded, and then apply?
4.) Will I ever have a hope of actually getting my Oregon CHL? Or should I just put all my effort, when the time comes, into moving out of Oregon and trying to obtain a CHL in a new state of residence?
Now I know that many (if not all) of you will outright condemn me for my choice to use marijuana, and this is completely understandable -- it's easy to see why noone would stand in support of someone knowingly breaking ANY law -- and perhaps, even commendable to do. As I've said, I've learned the lesson, and I've been "clean" for several months now (since May, actually). I also know that the struggle to regain my child has to come first; I would never claim differently. However, I also know that a man has to have SOME fun in his life, otherwise life devolves into merely the question of "how much punishment can you take before you've had enough"; and since I can't have fun in the usual ways (I'm not legally allowed to even drink, remember) that leaves shooting as the sole outlet for my emotions, and the sole source of my enjoyment (aside from marital relations, of course). And so, in the furtherance of that activity, I find myself focusing on exercising my Second Amendment rights more and more, not just to further my enjoyment of the shooting sports but also (and perhaps moreso) the furtherance of my personal protection, and the protection of those around me. [After all, it would be a grave disappointment indeed to be denied my child on the grounds that I "could not appropriately provide for her protection", would it not?] Which leads back to the procurement of the CHL, and my question as to how, strategically, should I proceed.
Please tell me your thoughts and ideas on this matter, I've been considering how to proceed on this for months now, and I'm not above hearing some constructive criticism. And also, thank you for taking the time from your lives to read this; I hope that it's touched you and perhaps opened your eyes a little to the perspectives of others. It was certainly hard enough for me to write all this out and lay myself bare for criticism and foul invective: but I can admit that I probably deserve it.
Thank you, OCDO.
All right friends, after lurking on this forum for several months now, I've finally decided to take the plunge and join up. This shall be my inaugural post; and it'll be quite a doozy -- I'd first like to apologise for pouring my heart out onto a forum where I have good reason to think that it won't exactly be received with open arms (just read the whole thing through and it'll be quite clear why); and I'd secondly like to apologise for relaying very personal details which, while integral to understanding what has happened, may put some people off or cause them to look down upon me with contempt -- however, as you shall soon see, these details form a central part of the narrative which is my life, and to omit them would leave critical events without a primary explanation.
Secondly, let me state my unequivocal support for OC and all of the issues wrapped up in it; and that my main motivation for getting the CHL is to remove the burden placed on me by the onerous legal restrictions that my city, and others, place upon OC; not so much to CC, unless the situation demands it, but rather to solidify my legal position relative to OCing. I already OC in all situations that I can (which given the city in which I reside, are not many), and would like to expand those situations to the legal maximum.
As a preface to my little story, I'd like to mention that I completed the Hunter's Education Safety & Training Course several years ago, when it was still possible to attend such a course at a private home (apparently since then, there have been draconian insurance requirements placed on those who teach the classes, and this accounts for the dearth of available Hunter's Ed courses in my local area), so I have no worries about meeting the 'training' portion of the legal requirements for obtaining a CHP.
So the prologue of my story begins when I was 21 and originally applied for my CHP (I had completed Hunter's Ed in my teens). I was denied under the so-called "willies" clause (ORS 166.293(2) ) on the basis that I had, at the time, a seizure disease which was treatable only with the use of marijuana (although controversial, this was a LEGAL use since I did possess a legal OMMP card; and although inconsequential in this part of the story, my use of marijuana features prominently in matters which will be discussed soon). At the hearing I petitioned for (under ORS 166.293(5)-166.293(12) ), the Sheriff, Rob Gordon, explained that although I had demonstrated that my seizures were well controlled, and that I had demonstrated a two-year-plus period of seizure-free living, the off-chance that I might suffer a seizure in a public place, thus rendering personal control of my weapon impossible, constituted "reasonable grounds to believe" that I would be "reasonably likely to be a danger to self or others, or to the community at large, as a result of [my] mental or psychological state". Despite evidence that I presented (sadly, my financial situation forced me to appear pro-se, i.e. represent myself) that I had a type of seizure disorder which had, as one of its characteristics, an "aura" (a perceptible warning that a seizure was going to occur within 5-45 minutes) which allowed me to remove myself from any public situation and medicate myself to prevent the seizure, thus rendering the Sheriff's objections medically without merit -- the denial was upheld. (Immediately after the hearing was concluded, I asked the judge about the basis for his decision; he replied that the Sheriff had "met the burden of proof", and that was all the explanation I received.)
So a few years later, after more doctors and more experimental medications and more intrusive examinations, I finally was rid of the seizure disorder through a combination of hypnotherapy and an experimental drug (I won't get into that here, since it would require an explanation four or five times as long as this entire post would be, and besides, it's not germane to the discussion of firearms or firearms issues). I turned in my OMMP card, and for more than two years, I had nothing whatsoever to do with marijuana. Eventually, however, I decided to start using it again, primarily for relaxation (I know, I know, there is no excuse for breaking any law, EVER, but allow me to briefly explain: For eight years, I had to smoke the stuff every single day, without EVER being able to feel the fun relaxation that my friends were able to enjoy, due to habituation over time [remember, I wasn't smoking for pleasure then; merely to stave off seizures, and so I didn't 'ramp up' my consumption over time like most "potheads" do]; and, having had to suffer through its use for years, I felt a little bit of entitlement to enjoy what had been previously unenjoyable for me. (Although I don't want this to get twisted into a political discussion about marijuana, I feel that I need to mention that there are literally MILLIONS of otherwise-law-abiding Americans who would rather light up after a stressful day then knock back a few beers; and I know I am not unique in this regard.)
So a couple of years passed, my wife and I had a daughter, and it was around this time that I discovered this grand website, and decided to again "get involved" with guns and shooting and OCing, and all the fun that entails (since I was unsuccessful in obtaining my CHL, I had to be rather careful about where and how I OC, seeing as CCing wasn't an option).
So, I had just managed to mentally 'settle-in' to the new role of father when a particularly pernicious incident unfolded... As a consequence of my stepfather's death a couple of years ago, my mother insisted that my wife and I 'come back home to stay' with her, both for her own emotional wellbeing as well as helping out with the numerous household chores which she had become unable to take on by herself; so we agreed, and all was well.
It came to be that our house became rather crowded: my wife and I, and our new daughter, living with my mother, as well as my younger sister and my younger brother, and my brother's friend as his roommate (an even longer story; he'd been forced out of his own home by his parents, and my mother frequently takes pity on the less fortunate). And so it was, that the brother's friend had a girlfriend who would come and see him (at our house) from time to time; and one of these times my mother caught the two of them 'between the sheets' together. (One of the rules here is that there is no sex between unmarried people -- she just won't put up with it at all.) The predictable "get out of my house" speech quickly followed.
And so about two weeks after this prelude to disaster had occured, I was out and about buying groceries when a Child Welfare/CPS worker came to the house and demanded drug tests from everyone, insisting that he had reports that we "were all using cocaine and leaving the baby unattended for hours on end". (Naturally, neither of these things were true, but that didn't matter to the caseworker.) He said that he'd return the next day, which he dutifully did. The next day when he came back, he told me that "we're not interested in weed-smoking or anything like that, but we need to make sure that there's no cocaine use here" in order to get my wife and I to submit to urinalysis tests. (Shortly later I found this to be a damned lie!) Thinking that he was being honest, and knowing that I had never used cocaine (so I thought this would be a quick matter to disprove and put to rest), we agreed and took the test.
About a week later, another caseworker, accompanied by WCSO officers, arrive at the house, and claim that since we both tested positive for marijuana, that they had the evidence of child abuse they needed, and they ripped our little infant child from our arms. (As a brief commentary -- but not to derail the discussion which I hope will follow -- there are MILLIONS of otherwise-law-abiding parents who use marijuana in their own homes, without exposing their children to the smoke, or even letting them know about this behaviour; we also fall into this category [changing clothes, washing face & hands, using airfilters in both smoking room and baby's room, etc. etc.]; are they just as 'guilty' of "child abuse" as we are?)
This happened in May of this year; since then, we have been abstinent, gone to drug counseling, are setting up parenting classes, and generally "jumping through" allof the "hoops" that the Court has demanded of us, so that we may have our child returned to us.
Throughout this whole process, no criminal charges were filed against either of us, nor was any mention made of the numerous guns which I own and keep (locked up, of course) in the house; since it was never alleged that the child was in physical danger from either of us, merely that the smoking of marijuana ITSELF was the act that constituted the alleged "child abuse", not any particular action to the baby by either of us.
Now, it goes without saying that I've now learned my lesson about marijuana ("never again", etc. etc.), but with all of the relevant history laid out before you, dear friends, it's time to ask my real questions.
1.) Since I meet the requirements for training, no criminal record, etc. etc. for issuance of the CHL, should I apply at this time?
2.) Should I apply on my own, or should I take one of the CHL classes? (It's my understanding that at the end of the class, they actually submit the paperwork for you, in a batch with the other class attendees.)
3.) If not now, should I wait until this entire Child Welfare imbroglio is concluded, and then apply?
4.) Will I ever have a hope of actually getting my Oregon CHL? Or should I just put all my effort, when the time comes, into moving out of Oregon and trying to obtain a CHL in a new state of residence?
Now I know that many (if not all) of you will outright condemn me for my choice to use marijuana, and this is completely understandable -- it's easy to see why noone would stand in support of someone knowingly breaking ANY law -- and perhaps, even commendable to do. As I've said, I've learned the lesson, and I've been "clean" for several months now (since May, actually). I also know that the struggle to regain my child has to come first; I would never claim differently. However, I also know that a man has to have SOME fun in his life, otherwise life devolves into merely the question of "how much punishment can you take before you've had enough"; and since I can't have fun in the usual ways (I'm not legally allowed to even drink, remember) that leaves shooting as the sole outlet for my emotions, and the sole source of my enjoyment (aside from marital relations, of course). And so, in the furtherance of that activity, I find myself focusing on exercising my Second Amendment rights more and more, not just to further my enjoyment of the shooting sports but also (and perhaps moreso) the furtherance of my personal protection, and the protection of those around me. [After all, it would be a grave disappointment indeed to be denied my child on the grounds that I "could not appropriately provide for her protection", would it not?] Which leads back to the procurement of the CHL, and my question as to how, strategically, should I proceed.
Please tell me your thoughts and ideas on this matter, I've been considering how to proceed on this for months now, and I'm not above hearing some constructive criticism. And also, thank you for taking the time from your lives to read this; I hope that it's touched you and perhaps opened your eyes a little to the perspectives of others. It was certainly hard enough for me to write all this out and lay myself bare for criticism and foul invective: but I can admit that I probably deserve it.
Thank you, OCDO.