LEOs Expressing opinions about OCDO site

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I've had enough of these wannabe cops. This poster is a lawyer (supposedly). I'm sending this one to the FBI, this site needs to be shut down. It's simply an online domestic terrorist site, plain and simple. The moderators don't even moderate their own site, which tells me they support this type of terroristic threats.

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Wow.

http://forums.officer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129083

Taylor1430 Said (Post#67):
I DO like this post though: Its funny because there are alot of open carry people who show up here and do the same thing. And in the real world, many OC people will attempt to bait police officers (or at least this bragged about on other forums). What I dont get is I'm a LEO. I am all for citizens being able to responsibly own firearms and carry firearms. I'm all for OC people wanting to excercise their rights to do so. I support those same rights. Hell, I carry off duty when not in uniform for my own protection...much like those who OC do (I keep my concealed but still support the right to carry). But it seems many in the OC community want to prove a point but I think proving that point shines a negative light on anyone who owns a gun. Instead of writing letters to the editor to the local newspapers, or putting together gun safety classes that explain law...and numerous other things that can be done to educate the public...they seem to want to shock and awe their way into acceptance. When someone walks into the mall with a gun....people get alarmed. When people get alarmed, they call 911. When people call 911, the cops come. When the cops come, they find a man with a gun and investigate. What does the OC community think is going to happen? Wouldn't the OC community better served in educating the public instead of scaring the living daylights out of the public? This is why when someone mentions OC or the NRA, etc...people will roll their eyes. The misconception of 'gun nuts' is caused by these actions...and does absolutely nothing but kill even further our freedoms. The police are not to blame...but yourself. A common sense goes a long way.

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Well, it sux when somebody puts a bad rap on us with respect to the police. There are 99.9% of our posters that are respectful toward officers. If they want to get all bent out of shape about the .1% that are idiots, they can go right ahead.

However, I still haven't figured out why it's ok for cops to exceed the speed limit to make it home for dinner on time. When is the last time anyone saw a squad car pulling over another LEO in his cruiser for speeding? I lost count of how many police vehicles fly by me every day on my way to and from work on I-80 and Hwy 36 going into Tooele. Oh yeah, they must be on a call right? That must be why he is wearing a polo shirt with his uniform hanging in bags in the back.

That stuff they post over there on their little site is just what you would expect from those guys. They, like us, have some idiots too. I actually feel bad for police. They spend so much time getting lied to and dealing with the scum all the time that they become desensitized. Some have even been so hardened that they actually believe that all civilians are either criminals or potential criminals. I really saw someone post such a comment on a police forum once. Another thing that is hard for them is that they should know the law that they are enforcing, but there are so many statutes and stuff to memorize, they really don't know up from down on a lot of things. They rely on the basic information that their superiors tell them. Then, when they are faced with a situation where they have to actually charge somebody, they go to their computer and look up the violation. Ever wonder what the heck they are doing for 45 minutes while you are cuffed on the curb? Yup, they are playing around on the internet and chatting it up with somebody above them who actually knows the law. That is why so many departments and their officers have had such a wake up call with respect to OC in the last few years. The department heads and old-timers don't like citizens carrying guns. They think we are too stupid and untrained to defend ourselves. While that may not be the case with every department or city, it is wide-spread and has been a problem for years. Ergo, the evolution of the opinion enforcement officer.

Kevin

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LovesHisXD45 wrote:

Well, it sux when somebody puts a bad rap on us with respect to the police. There are 99.9% of our posters that are respectful toward officers. If they want to get all bent out of shape about the .1% that are idiots, they can go right ahead.

However, I still haven't figured out why it's ok for cops to exceed the speed limit to make it home for dinner on time. When is the last time anyone saw a squad car pulling over another LEO in his cruiser for speeding? I lost count of how many police vehicles fly by me every day on my way to and from work on I-80 and Hwy 36 going into Tooele. Oh yeah, they must be on a call right? That must be why he is wearing a polo shirt with his uniform hanging in bags in the back.

That stuff they post over there on their little site is just what you would expect from those guys. They, like us, have some idiots too. ...

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I don't think it's quite at the 99.9% level, LHXD.

And I agree with you that the thread over at officer.com have a mix ofreasonable and unreasonable. This seems reasonable:



Unistat wrote:

...The open carry picnic that is occasionally help in Michigan seem to be a good way to create awareness and comfort with open carry with as little controversy as possible (there will always be some, guns are controversial). In my opinion, exposure to reasonable firearm owners who carry (open or concealed) will benefit all firearm owners...

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This oneseems unreasonable:

FJDavewrote:

I have said in the past that OC is an anti-police site, and this proves it. I'm just glad these OC morons in my state know that it's only legal to OC UNLOADED. They still get proned, cuffed and detained until I figure out what's going on with the weapon though.

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However, we gotta remember that the starting point for that thread over at officer.com was the inanity in S357's (our very own guy, until recently) post:



smoking357 wrote:

...It's time, people.

Know the three rules:

1. Police are an army whose enemy is the People.

2. Police are the greatest enemy America has ever faced.

3. America would be better off without the police.

When we see a car pulled over, we need to realize that there is a citizen at risk. We need to start defending each other.

It's time we all remembered what open carry is all about, and it ain't protection against burglars.

It's time.

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Pure, cheeky, anti-cop claptrap...


It would have helped our OCDO reputation if more people here had challenged and/or disavowed S357's post when he made it here. Some here, but only about 0.01% of our posters did that. I don't remember, did you?

I suggest that if only 5% or 10% of our posters had posted in opposition to S357's psuedo-revolutionary "police are the enemy"/"we need to start defending each other"(with guns, against the police) that we wouldn't be getting that bad rap against us.

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For the record, I am glad Smoke got banned, and yes he reflected bad on us. But, make no mistake there are a@@es on both sides and both forums let people often get away with crap and bashing.

Exhibit A

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Blue Leader vbmenu_register("postmenu_1973137", true); Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: San Diego Posts: 251

Generally, I only come on here to help answer questions for people trying to get into law enforcement. I've never take the time to "challenge" another officer. However, to put it bluntly, you are full of **** in regards to the Open Carry site.

I went on the website to check out what they had to say after a few of these open carry idiots decided to play "show & tell" in San Diego. I couldn't believe the stuff I was reading on there. As a whole, they are totally anti-police. Based on thier actions here in San Diego and statements on the board, they make no secret that they are trying to bait officers into doing something illegal so they can file some type of lawsuit or at least get publicity.

I wouldn't walk across the street to **** on one of those guys if they were on fire.
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That post does not represent everyone over there, but I dont see anyone there objecting to his hate and contempt for citizens. I refuse to be painted with the same brush as styles/smoke/donkey any more than everyone at that site would want to be painted as being a douch like blue leader.

Oh, and regarding blue leader...I would rather burn than have any contact with him. ....much the same feeling I had for smoke/styles and the like.

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DonTreadOnMe wrote:

Blue Leader vbmenu_register("postmenu_1973137", true); Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: San Diego Posts: 251

I wouldn't walk across the street to **** on one of those guys if they were on fire.
_______________________________________________

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Good thing we don't rely on cops to put out fires. :celebrate

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I support police, they provide this corrections officer with job security !!!!!!

I wonder if some police officers equate oc'ers giving advice about how to act and what to say during a interaction,as being anti police...

when i oc, its not to bait anyone, its to live the 2a.

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Here is the opinion of one of the admins at officer .com

Now my opinion (for what it's worth since I don't live in Utah): I KNOW that openly carrying can cause a lot of grief and aggravation More than it's worth? I don't think so. I believe that our country traveled too far down the gun control path so that now when we see a gun we get freaked out. It's just another tool that, if misused CAN kill you. But it won't all of its own accord - anymore than tha hammer on the carpenter's belt will. I have no issue with open hammer on the carpenter's belt will. I have no issue with open carry -it just takes a bit of getting used to

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kwikrnu wrote:

DonTreadOnMe wrote:

I wouldn't walk across the street to **** on one of those guys if they were on fire.

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Good thing we don't rely on cops to put out fires. :celebrate

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Hiredgun30 wrote:

I support police, they provide this corrections officer with job security !!!!!!

I wonder if some police officers equate oc'ers giving advice about how to act and what to say during a interaction,as being anti police...

when i oc, its not to bait anyone, its to live the 2a.

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I support the Constitution and the rights guaranteed under it. I support the citizens of this country and believe that they can and should hold the government and its employees accountable for their abusive behavior.

I support the right of OC'ers and believe that OC'er by and large simply want to be left alone to exercise their rights and go about their business--and I believe the police should not try to interfere with the free exercise of rights, and certainly, most definitely should not try to interject their own personal opinions into a detainment.

I fully support holding the police accountable both criminally and financially, and sadly, losing money, their job, or their freedom by being put in jail themselves seems to be the only things they understand.

I support the right of the people to tell the police as little as possible, and to avoid answering as many questions as legally possible. The less you talk to the police, the better you are, because they are perfectly willing and able to lie when it serves their needs--and can do so with impunity except for when they are actually under oath--therefore, we should avoid answering any questions possible. It isn't our job to do their job for them.

It is their Constitution as well--you would think they would actually support it more.:banghead:

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who cares what they think? really?

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chillidogs wrote:

who cares what they think? really?

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I do. When someone is given the authority to try to legally destroy my life, I really care about what they think of me, and what I do.

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FogRider wrote:

chillidogs wrote:

who cares what they think? really?

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I do. When someone is given the authority to try to legally destroy my life, I really care about what they think of me, and what I do.

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+1 Damn straight!

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It seems they have deleted the original thread on officer.com.

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chillidogs wrote:

who cares what they think? really?

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You should care. After all, isn't your father one of them?

Or are you saying "who cares" because the police should never be doubted? :question:

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thx997303 wrote:

It seems they have deleted the original thread on officer.com.

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They havestartd anotherthread.

Arrest set-up by opencarry.org -Police Forums & Law Enforcement Forums @ Officer.com

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I saw that one, look for the one about the 10th circuit court.

They don't agree that it concludes open carry is not reason for a detention.

Funny but sad really.

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thx997303 wrote:

I saw that one, look for the one about the 10th circuit court.

They don't agree that it concludes open carry is not reason for a detention.

Funny but sad really.

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It make one wonder about the literacy level of the police. After reading the Report and Order it couldn't be much clearer that is exactly what it said.

From page 7:

Moreover, Mr. St. John's lawful possession of a loaded firearm in a crowded place could not, by itself, create a reasonable suspicion sufficient to justify an investigatory detention. For example, in United States v. Ubiles, 224 F.3d 213 (3rd Cir. 2000), the Third Circuit found that an individual's lawful possession of a firearm in a crowded place did not justify a search or seizure.

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And from page 8:

The Tenth Circuit has also dealt with this question. In United States v. King, 990 F.2d 1552 (10th Cir. 1993) the Tenth Circuit found that an investigatory detention initiated by an officer after he discovered that the defendant lawfully possessed a loaded firearm lacked sufficient basis because the firearm alone did not create a reasonable suspicion of criminal activity.

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and:

("In short, while the safety of police officers is no doubt an important government interest, it can only justify a Fourth Amendment intrusion into a person's liberty so long as the officer is entitled to make a forcible stop.")

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and from page 10:

In sum, Defendants had no reason for seizing Mr. St. John other than the fact that he was lawfully carrying a weapon in a public place. Because New Mexico law allows individuals to openly carry weapons in public—and Mr. St. John had done nothing to arouse suspicion, create tumult or endanger anyone's well-being—there were no articulable facts to indicate either criminal activity or a threat to safety. Accordingly, Defendants' seizure of Mr. St. John violated his Fourth Amendment rights.

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I especially like footnote 5:

Defendants contend that Mr. St. John was about to commit a crime because, had he refused to comply with their request that he leave the premises, he would have been trespassing. If accepted, this argument would significantly erode Fourth Amendment protections. Because the Court finds no jurisprudential support for Defendants' novel contention, no further discussion of it is necessary.

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Yup. Doesn't it scare the hell out of you that some of the officers out there think they are the gods of law interpretation and huddle with their little club of buddies under the false umbrella and guise of qualified immunity and justify their violation of our rights with self-righteous prejudice? Maybe somebody should trace the identity of those LEO posters and send a copy of the posts along to their CO and the district attorney where they are. I'm sure internal affairs would also love to have a copy because everybody loves a bunch of rogue LEOs running around with biased and false interpretations of the law now, don't they? Posting like that shows premeditation and intent to violate somebody's rights. Both are damning in court, so let them spew their bologna all they want. It will come back to bite them in the ass sooner or later. I would love to have evidence like that to hand over to an attorney. It would be a slam dunk case.

Kevin

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Call the FBI.

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marshaul wrote:

Call the FBI.

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The feds? Yukka! Let the locals handle it.