zigziggityzoo
Campaign Veteran
imported post
GP-P11 wrote:
Don't worry, you're not the only one here.
GP-P11 wrote:
Don't worry, you're not the only one here.
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T Vance
Regular Member
imported post
Don't let police or other "people of power" scare you! I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees!
Springfield Smitty
Regular Member
imported post
Hendu024 wrote:
+1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Hendu024 wrote:
+1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Springfield Smitty
Regular Member
imported post
T Vance wrote:
A very popular saying:
The man who chooses to represent himself has a fool for a client.
T Vance wrote:
A very popular saying:
The man who chooses to represent himself has a fool for a client.
G
Guest
Guest
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Do you think O.J. would've gotten off if he had represented himself?
Good legal defense/offense costs money.
Do you think O.J. would've gotten off if he had represented himself?
Good legal defense/offense costs money.
Springfield Smitty
Regular Member
imported post
Why do so many here feel the need to make new people feel inadequate or stupid for doing what they see as the right thing for them. Freedom is about making the choices you see as appropriate for you. Leave others alone.
To all the know-it-alls, your points have been made! There is no need to continue to belittle others over their personal decisions. I am sick of this forum. No wonder most of the people I refer here have negative opinions of the site. I am beginning to feel the same way. I'm done with it! I'll never refer another person here.
Why do so many here feel the need to make new people feel inadequate or stupid for doing what they see as the right thing for them. Freedom is about making the choices you see as appropriate for you. Leave others alone.
To all the know-it-alls, your points have been made! There is no need to continue to belittle others over their personal decisions. I am sick of this forum. No wonder most of the people I refer here have negative opinions of the site. I am beginning to feel the same way. I'm done with it! I'll never refer another person here.
G
Guest
Guest
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Springfield Smitty wrote:
Springfield Smitty wrote:
That looks like one of those new Obama numbers.
Springfield Smitty
Regular Member
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I am in no way, shape, or form associated with that ___________ (fill in the blank with any negative connotation you choose). I resent that.
I am in no way, shape, or form associated with that ___________ (fill in the blank with any negative connotation you choose). I resent that.
G
Guest
Guest
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T Vance wrote:
If you're afraid, you've got too much to loose.
T Vance wrote:
Exactly!
If you're afraid, you've got too much to loose.
T Vance
Regular Member
imported post
Springfield Smitty wrote:
Not always the case. I went in to my situation without a lawyer. Granted it was only a traffic violation, but it was obtained while OCing. Worse case scenario is you lose the case, then you hire a lawyer and appeal it. Why spend all that money at first when you don't have to? It's up to each individual how they want to handle it. If you feel like dropping money on a lawyer the first round, that is entirely up to you.
All the laws I need to know pertaining to OCing can be found some where on this forum. I'll use those in court to fight any case that is brought against in a bogus charge for OCing.
Springfield Smitty wrote:
Not always the case. I went in to my situation without a lawyer. Granted it was only a traffic violation, but it was obtained while OCing. Worse case scenario is you lose the case, then you hire a lawyer and appeal it. Why spend all that money at first when you don't have to? It's up to each individual how they want to handle it. If you feel like dropping money on a lawyer the first round, that is entirely up to you.
All the laws I need to know pertaining to OCing can be found some where on this forum. I'll use those in court to fight any case that is brought against in a bogus charge for OCing.
G
Guest
Guest
imported post
Not to disparage your efforts, but wasn't your case dismissed without any action on your part, other than to enter a not guilty plea on the back of your ticket?
From what I gathered in your thread, you didn't have to make an appearance in court at all.
Please correct me, if I'm wrong.
And, if you loose your case, on what grounds do you base an appeal? Inadequate representation?
Not to disparage your efforts, but wasn't your case dismissed without any action on your part, other than to enter a not guilty plea on the back of your ticket?
From what I gathered in your thread, you didn't have to make an appearance in court at all.
Please correct me, if I'm wrong.
And, if you loose your case, on what grounds do you base an appeal? Inadequate representation?
G
Guest
Guest
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Springfield Smitty wrote:
Springfield Smitty wrote:
You pile on a post calling me a dick +1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 times and you have resentments? Go piss up a rope!
T Vance
Regular Member
imported post
CV67PAT wrote:
I did have to appear in court for the pretrial. A person (who I didn't know what title he held at the time he called me to a backroom) called my name to come into a backroom and talk about what I was being charged with and the original ticket that was written was incorrect and that I was being charged with a misdemeanor, and that it should have been written up with a different number and that it should have been a civil infraction.
I explained to him that I was still fighting the civil infraction because of the reason I was stopped (for OCing). He then said "well it's not like you had drugs in your car". I replied that OC was legal in the state of Michigan and that the ticket should be thrown out. I realized shortly after entering the court room to make my plea, that the man I talked to was the prosecuting attorney.
So if I had not said anything to this man at the time, their is a chancethat the case may not have been dismissed, and I would have had to show up to fight it still.
CV67PAT wrote:
I did have to appear in court for the pretrial. A person (who I didn't know what title he held at the time he called me to a backroom) called my name to come into a backroom and talk about what I was being charged with and the original ticket that was written was incorrect and that I was being charged with a misdemeanor, and that it should have been written up with a different number and that it should have been a civil infraction.
I explained to him that I was still fighting the civil infraction because of the reason I was stopped (for OCing). He then said "well it's not like you had drugs in your car". I replied that OC was legal in the state of Michigan and that the ticket should be thrown out. I realized shortly after entering the court room to make my plea, that the man I talked to was the prosecuting attorney.
So if I had not said anything to this man at the time, their is a chancethat the case may not have been dismissed, and I would have had to show up to fight it still.
Hendu024
Regular Member
imported post
CV67PAT wrote:
Obviously the OP is very new to this, and yeah, it can be a little scary to think about the possible repercussions of OC'ing. If he keeps reading intelligent, constructive threads, he will realize that it's not as big of a deal as he thinks it is going to be. But making fun of him and not saying he's a "true patriot" is just ignorant and obnoxious.
BACK ON TOPIC- GP-P11, if you continue to read threads on this site, you will gain a lot of knowledge and perspective from people who carry every day and have had encounters with LEO's, business owners and managers, the general public, and everything in between. You can't really be worried about getting arrested or paying for a trial, that can happen to anyone for anything, and why worry about something that hasn't happened? If you are educated about the laws in your state and area, you really can minimize the effects of a negative experience. You could even carry copies of the law in your wallet to present to an LEO in case of a seriously negative encounter.
Even if the chief of police told you "I have trained and educated everyone on our police force about the legality of OC, and they know what to expect and how to act", that doesn't really matter whatsoever. You could still run into an LEO with a stick up his #%$ and get arrested for it. It's just a chance that you have to be willing to take before you decide to OC. Standing up for your rights is easier than you think...
CV67PAT wrote:
If the shoe fits... People who make posts like your first one on this thread make it really annoying to read. If you can't say anything constructive without acting like a dbag, then just STFU and don't contribute.
Obviously the OP is very new to this, and yeah, it can be a little scary to think about the possible repercussions of OC'ing. If he keeps reading intelligent, constructive threads, he will realize that it's not as big of a deal as he thinks it is going to be. But making fun of him and not saying he's a "true patriot" is just ignorant and obnoxious.
BACK ON TOPIC- GP-P11, if you continue to read threads on this site, you will gain a lot of knowledge and perspective from people who carry every day and have had encounters with LEO's, business owners and managers, the general public, and everything in between. You can't really be worried about getting arrested or paying for a trial, that can happen to anyone for anything, and why worry about something that hasn't happened? If you are educated about the laws in your state and area, you really can minimize the effects of a negative experience. You could even carry copies of the law in your wallet to present to an LEO in case of a seriously negative encounter.
Even if the chief of police told you "I have trained and educated everyone on our police force about the legality of OC, and they know what to expect and how to act", that doesn't really matter whatsoever. You could still run into an LEO with a stick up his #%$ and get arrested for it. It's just a chance that you have to be willing to take before you decide to OC. Standing up for your rights is easier than you think...
G
Guest
Guest
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You can go piss up a rope too!
You can go piss up a rope too!
G
Guest
Guest
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T Vance wrote:
T Vance wrote:
I didn't know you had a pre-trial conference. I missed that in your thread.
Scooter
Regular Member
imported post
CV67PAT wrote:
Boys, Boys!! Settle down here!
I do understand GP-P11s' concerns; I was nervous at first when I found out about OC and began to consider any issues I may run into. I started out OC'ing in my 'hood before I got my CPL and then waited until I had it before I went anywhere in a car to OC. By then I came to terms with my Right to OC and fully accept any issues that may arise from someone else not knowing/not caring what my Rights are.(plus I readall info on this site until my eyes bled!)
A HUGE motivator for me is that my wife is completely on board! Having someone close to you who "gets it" gives me all the confidence I will ever need.
I have been OCing for about 3 months in the Ann Arbor/Ypsilanti area and have had ZERO problems. I have been in all the local stores on a weekly basis, a few looks now and then but really, no big deal.
But, again, don't OC until YOU feel comfortable doing it. If you are afraid it will show and that may end up drawing attention in a bad way. You do need to be confident in your Right to OC before you do it.
Maybe you could meet up with someone near you? Buddy system?
CV67PAT wrote:
Boys, Boys!! Settle down here!
I do understand GP-P11s' concerns; I was nervous at first when I found out about OC and began to consider any issues I may run into. I started out OC'ing in my 'hood before I got my CPL and then waited until I had it before I went anywhere in a car to OC. By then I came to terms with my Right to OC and fully accept any issues that may arise from someone else not knowing/not caring what my Rights are.(plus I readall info on this site until my eyes bled!)
A HUGE motivator for me is that my wife is completely on board! Having someone close to you who "gets it" gives me all the confidence I will ever need.
I have been OCing for about 3 months in the Ann Arbor/Ypsilanti area and have had ZERO problems. I have been in all the local stores on a weekly basis, a few looks now and then but really, no big deal.
But, again, don't OC until YOU feel comfortable doing it. If you are afraid it will show and that may end up drawing attention in a bad way. You do need to be confident in your Right to OC before you do it.
Maybe you could meet up with someone near you? Buddy system?
Wglide90
Regular Member
imported post
First I think the attitude of the objector is way out of line. And does nothing to help anyone get over the first jitters. I'm new here too and I find the things said about GP to be appalling and to think we are supposed to be on the same side of the issue.
I have concerns about local LEOs and have read all the stuff in the forum. I still don't know what local LEOs would do here. There is currently a shake up in the township leadership and PD, so it could be a problem at this time. IDK...
I have OC'd in UP only and that was during hunting season. Everyone there was cool about it.
I see guys near by me on the forum that have no problems in Ypsi, which is a pretty LEO intense town.
I know it's my right. I also do not want to be arrested. So I would find out about my local LEOs before I go out if I so choose to. I have CPL so I carry all the time anyway.
Maybe some help here in sending the proper documents to them to get a statement from them.
I want to know more anyway.
First I think the attitude of the objector is way out of line. And does nothing to help anyone get over the first jitters. I'm new here too and I find the things said about GP to be appalling and to think we are supposed to be on the same side of the issue.
I have concerns about local LEOs and have read all the stuff in the forum. I still don't know what local LEOs would do here. There is currently a shake up in the township leadership and PD, so it could be a problem at this time. IDK...
I have OC'd in UP only and that was during hunting season. Everyone there was cool about it.
I see guys near by me on the forum that have no problems in Ypsi, which is a pretty LEO intense town.
I know it's my right. I also do not want to be arrested. So I would find out about my local LEOs before I go out if I so choose to. I have CPL so I carry all the time anyway.
Maybe some help here in sending the proper documents to them to get a statement from them.
I want to know more anyway.
dougwg
Regular Member
imported post
Wglide90 wrote:
Wglide90 wrote:
I have a friend that is a police officer in Belleville. Would you like me to find out the "attitude of the police" pertaining to OC and report back here?
G
GP-P11
Guest
imported post
I am already compiling a pamphlet of OC-related documents, that will be with me every second I am OC'ing, should I choose to do so.
The OC events and such would be nice. I'll try to make it to some of these sometime... the buddy-system idea would be nice too. Better than single-handedly debating with some overzealous cops first time out...
Many thanks to those who are understanding and supportive of those like me who choose to be careful when going up against 'The Man"
...As for those who choose to arbitrarily attack, such as CV67, you might want to tone it down if you really care about the right to OC, or to even carry at all... Being in-your-face and saying 'I have the right to do this, and if you don't like it, go f**k yourself.' Has some merit, but isn't always best. The ideal spokesperson is not one who is trigger-happy with the hostility, reciting the old "Cold, dead hands" mantra, and showing a total lack of regard for diplomacy and manners. Isn't the goal to show the world that not only do you intend to fight for your right to OC, but that you also are respectable, peaceful people that should not be labeled as the bad guy when seen visibly armed in public in the first place???
Notice how the picture at the top of the screen shows several armed people who look nice and friendly... perhaps there's a good reason why none of them chose to scowl and give the cameraman the finger.... just a thought...
I am already compiling a pamphlet of OC-related documents, that will be with me every second I am OC'ing, should I choose to do so.
The OC events and such would be nice. I'll try to make it to some of these sometime... the buddy-system idea would be nice too. Better than single-handedly debating with some overzealous cops first time out...
Many thanks to those who are understanding and supportive of those like me who choose to be careful when going up against 'The Man"
...As for those who choose to arbitrarily attack, such as CV67, you might want to tone it down if you really care about the right to OC, or to even carry at all... Being in-your-face and saying 'I have the right to do this, and if you don't like it, go f**k yourself.' Has some merit, but isn't always best. The ideal spokesperson is not one who is trigger-happy with the hostility, reciting the old "Cold, dead hands" mantra, and showing a total lack of regard for diplomacy and manners. Isn't the goal to show the world that not only do you intend to fight for your right to OC, but that you also are respectable, peaceful people that should not be labeled as the bad guy when seen visibly armed in public in the first place???
Notice how the picture at the top of the screen shows several armed people who look nice and friendly... perhaps there's a good reason why none of them chose to scowl and give the cameraman the finger.... just a thought...