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Thread: Racine, WI Police Department Executes "Extraordinary Rendition" Snatch of Open Car

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    OpenCarry.org[/b][/b]

    For Immediate Release – September 9, 2009[/b]

    ---

    United StatesFederal Judge Tells Police: Leave open gun carriers alone!

    Racine, WI Police Department Executes "Extraordinary Rendition" Snatch of Open Carrier Off His Front Porch!

    [/b]



    See http://www.examiner.com/x-2782-DC-Gun-Rights-Examiner~y2009m9d9-Federal-judge-rules-police-cannot-detain-people-for-openly-carrying-guns

    SNIP

    examiner.com — On September 8, 2009, United States District Judge Bruce D. Black of the United States District Court for New Mexico entered summary judgment in a civil case for damages against Alamogordo, NM police officers. The Judge’s straight shootin’ message to police: Leave open carriers alone unless you have “reason to believe that a crime [is] afoot.” . . .




    "Importantly," says Mike Stollenwerk, co-founder of OpenCarry.org, "Judge Black denied the police officers' requested 'qualified immunity,' a judicially created doctrine allowing government officials acting in good faith to avoid liability for violating the law where the law was not 'clearly established.'"



    But back in Wisconsin, unfortunately, witnesses report tonight that theRacine, WI policegrabbed a man off his front porch for legally open carrying a holstered handgun. It sounds like not only did the Racine, WI police not get the Attorney General's Memo on the legality of open carry in Wisconsin, but they are borrowing a page from the BushAdministration's playbook and executing a form of "extraordinary rendition" against US citizens who dare to open carry.



    "Hopefully," adds Stollenwerk, "the Racine PD will allow the Red Cross access to the detainee."



    Sources tellOpenCarry.org that friends and family members of the detainee, as wells as members of the open carry community in Wisconsin,are scrambling to form a family support group for the detainee's wife.



    Carry on!



    ###

    Media Contacts:

    OpenCarry.org co-founders:
    John Pierce: John AT OpenCarry.org
    Mike Stollenwerk: Mike AT OpenCarry.org


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    WOW simply WOW

    Sounds like something the cop from Prairie du Chien I talked to tonight would do.

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    me thinks that the only thing that will REALLY put an end to this sort of thing is hefty fines and maybe even some jail time.

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    Founder's Club Member bnhcomputing's Avatar
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    Not a legal opinion, just a moral one.

    The Racine Police Department KIDNAPPED one of our members last evening.

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    bnhcomputing wrote:
    Not a legal opinion, just a moral one.

    The Racine Police Department KIDNAPPED one of our members last evening.
    Just judging from the info I've read, it could be kidnapping if the above cited circuit court decision applies to Wisconsin.

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    What the he_ _!

    It seems like some cops/PDs all across the nation are making war on OC, and on the Constitution, and on The People of The United States. Time for the "Good Leos" toget together, rise up,and pound on some desks!! Otherwise, more and more, you will be painted with the same brush. . . And, what about the calling in answer to which you took up your occupation? What about your oath? Among whom do you want to be counted as"friend?"

    And, if you ask, you will find friends among the public to join you in the deskpounding.

    Rise up! Do not further tolerate being embarrassed by the bad apples in your barrel.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Is there an article about the illegal, detainment arrest of the man off his porch? My thoughts are with this man and his family, I hope the illegal police actions are severely punished, they have got to learn their place.

    A higher up from SAF basically said to cooperate with police because the badge will never loose, but how are we going to change that attitude if we don't just "cooperate". Hopefully this guy's case will help change this attitude found in many LEO departments. Hint hint Bellingham Washington PD.

    Great article too I dugg it. Finally a judge ruling that helps stop that lame immunity excuse against law abiding citizens.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Please go to ....

    http://www.cityofracine.org/depts/police/

    and voice your opinions on this false arrest to the Racine Police Department.

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    I have sent an email and a copy of the new federal ruling for the chief to share with his officers.

    here is the chiefs email:

    kurt.wahlen@cityofracine.org

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    Regular Member bigdaddy1's Avatar
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    I have had no luck in finding information on line or otherwise regarding the arrest. Does anyone have a link?
    What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand?

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    A news link has shown up in Google News:

    http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/58583422.html

    Racine Police: Open Carry Arrest May Have Been a Set-Up
    By Dan O'Donnell

    RACINE - The Racine Police Department believes a man arrested for obstructing officers might have been setting them up.

    Officers received a call regarding shots fired and, when they responded, found the suspect with a holstered gun standing on his front porch, and asked him for identification.

    "The officers wanted to know who he was and that he actually lived at the address where they found him," said Racine Police Sgt. Bernie Kupper. "We wanted to know that he did in fact live there and wasn't a suspect."

    The man refused to provide identification, allegedly citing Attorney General JB Van Hollen's recent letter to Wisconsin's district attorneys promoting the state's open carry law.

    "The suspect said he had a right to carry his gun and that the officers couldn't ask him for ID unless they arrested him," Kupper said.

    Officers then arrested the man for obstructing them.

    "When we ultimately arrested him, he had an open carry pamphlet in his pocket and a digital pocket recorder that an officer says he was attempting to turn on while we were talking with him," Kupper explained. "When you couple those things with the fact that we eventually determined that the shots fired call came from his address, we felt that we were possibly being set up."

    An investigation into the incident is ongoing.


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    Show us the 911 tape and the contact report.

    Timing???

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    So... apparently if you live in Racine, Wisconsin, and you hear shots fired somewhere near your house, you better not report it to the police and then step outside to see what is going on if you are carrying a firearm for your own protection.

    Given the current trend of criminal police activity in Wisconsin, an open carrier would have to be a fool not to have a voice recorder.

    But of course the police are the victims here.

    TFred


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    Relax, T. They said they'd investigate.

    "Calling all foxes - -investigate the hen house incident!"

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    TFred wrote:
    A news link has shown up in Google News:

    http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/58583422.html

    Racine Police: Open Carry Arrest May Have Been a Set-Up
    By Dan O'Donnell

    RACINE - The Racine Police Department believes a man arrested for obstructing officers might have been setting them up.

    Officers received a call regarding shots fired and, when they responded, found the suspect with a holstered gun standing on his front porch, and asked him for identification.

    "The officers wanted to know who he was and that he actually lived at the address where they found him," said Racine Police Sgt. Bernie Kupper. "We wanted to know that he did in fact live there and wasn't a suspect."

    The man refused to provide identification, allegedly citing Attorney General JB Van Hollen's recent letter to Wisconsin's district attorneys promoting the state's open carry law.

    "The suspect said he had a right to carry his gun and that the officers couldn't ask him for ID unless they arrested him," Kupper said.

    Officers then arrested the man for obstructing them.

    "When we ultimately arrested him, he had an open carry pamphlet in his pocket and a digital pocket recorder that an officer says he was attempting to turn on while we were talking with him," Kupper explained. "When you couple those things with the fact that we eventually determined that the shots fired call came from his address, we felt that we were possibly being set up."

    An investigation into the incident is ongoing.




    WhoaaaAAAAAaaaaoohhhh!



    Stop the spin...I THINK I'M GUNNA HURL!

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    I am no longer ever dialing 911 for anyone in this state.

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    I am going to reserve judgement on that one.

    Going only on the information contained in the posted article, it is not all that far fetched.

    We have definitely had some more militant members here on OCDO, and I wouldn't put this sort of thing past a few of them.

    I say let us all reserve judgement until more facts are known.

    And if somebody has more facts, let me know.

    Edited to Add: I just read the other thread about this, and decided whether baited or not, the officers acted to deprive a man of his rights, absent any RAS.

    These officers seem to be trying to save face.

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    thx997303 wrote:
    I am going to reserve judgement on that one.

    Going only on the information contained in the posted article, it is not all that far fetched.

    We have definitely had some more militant members here on OCDO, and I wouldn't put this sort of thing past a few of them.

    I say let us all reserve judgement until more facts are known.

    And if somebody has more facts, let me know.

    Edited to Add: I just read the other thread about this, and decided whether baited or not, the officers acted to deprive a man of his rights, absent any RAS.

    These officers seem to be trying to save face.
    Whether the individual did or did not do what they think he did, by calling in the police--if the police violated his rights--they obviously felt VERY comfortable in doing it...and that should be the primary issue here.

    so if he did do it--I have no sympathy for the police, because they are supposed to be aware of their limitations on their authority, and if they are not--then they either need to learn, or find another job.

    I hope he bankrupts them.

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    thx997303 wrote:

    These officers seem to be trying to save face.
    They will always try to save face--they will do anything they can to keep from admitting they were wrong, and from taking responsibility for what they did.

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    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
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    Preaching to the choir.

    I know all about how an officer will try to save face after an illegal detention and cite.

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    thx997303 wrote:
    Preaching to the choir.

    I know all about how an officer will try to save face after an illegal detention and cite.
    the police generally understand 3 things.

    1. Losing money through lawsuits
    2. Losing their jobs
    3. Being investigated, and hopefully charged and convicted by the feds for Constitutional rights violations...

    when enough of them are bankrupted in lawsuits, have lost their jobs and certifications and are in jail--then those who remain might learn to treat us a little better.

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    suntzu wrote:
    thx997303 wrote:
    Preaching to the choir.

    I know all about how an officer will try to save face after an illegal detention and cite.
    the police generally understand 3 things.

    1. Losing money through lawsuits
    2. Losing their jobs
    3. Being investigated, and hopefully charged and convicted by the feds for Constitutional rights violations...

    when enough of them are bankrupted in lawsuits, have lost their jobs and certifications and are in jail--then those who remain might learn to treat us a little better.
    You are right. And, if you will permit, may I ask you to keep on the DOJ and the Larimer County DA for me - for The People, if I may be so bold. Please see "Loveland Update" in the Colorado section (Is that whatit's called, a "section"?)

    Thanks,

    Bill

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    968.24Temporary questioning without arrest. After having identified himself or herself as a law enforcement officer, a law enforcement officer may stop a person in a public place for a reasonable period of time when the officer reasonably suspects that such person is committing, is about to commit or has committed a crime, and may demand the name and address of the person and an explanation of the person's conduct. Such detention and temporary questioning shall be conducted in the vicinity where the person was stopped.

    The gentleman appears to have misinterpreted the whole 'can't ask me for ID unless you're arresting me' thing. He does seem required to provide his name, address and an explanation of his conduct, IF they have reasonable articulable suspicion that he did, was or is about to yada-yada-yada.
    "Hi, I'm John Smith and I live here at 1313 Mockingbird lane, and I'm standing on my porch."
    "Can you Prove that, Sir?"
    "No, I believe it's up to you to prove I'm Not."

    Apparently though, the officers lacked any RAS that any illegality was afoot.

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    Fallschirmjäger wrote:
    968.24Temporary questioning without arrest. After having identified himself or herself as a law enforcement officer, a law enforcement officer may stop a person in a public place for a reasonable period of time when the officer reasonably suspects that such person is committing, is about to commit or has committed a crime, and may demand the name and address of the person and an explanation of the person's conduct. Such detention and temporary questioning shall be conducted in the vicinity where the person was stopped.

    The gentleman appears to have misinterpreted the whole 'can't ask me for ID unless you're arresting me' thing. He does seem required to provide his name, address and an explanation of his conduct, IF they have reasonable articulable suspicion that he did, was or is about to yada-yada-yada.
    "Hi, I'm John Smith and I live here at 1313 Mockingbird lane, and I'm standing on my porch."
    "Can you Prove that, Sir?"
    "No, I believe it's up to you to prove I'm Not."

    Apparently though, the officers lacked any RAS that any illegality was afoot.
    This wasn't a public place. he was on his property.

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    It isn't a setup if you willingly take the actions in question.

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