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Thread: North Carolina status upgraded to "Gold Star Open Carry State"

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    See map at http://www.opencarry.org/opencarry.htmlandand click on the new definitions, notably, the replacement of the old "anomalous open carry state" category with "Open Carry Frendly State" where "Opencarry [is] permitted by state law without license, but either lacks preemption or does not allow unlicensed open carry inside a vehicle."

    As for North Carolina, OpenCarry.org is of the view that "generally preempted" applies to North Carolina as the state preemption law, though weak, when read in concert with State v. Kerner, does not permit localities to ban the open carry of military (i.e., normal) sized handguns on streets, sidewalks and private businessesso basically open carriers can get around the state, even if they have to watch out for possible local open carry bans in parks, city buildings, and municipal parking lots.

    Talking points everyone should know and use when talking about open carry, i.e., the practice of carrying holstered unconcealed functional handguns (functionality includes being loaded):

    • 42 states permit open carry in public
    • 26 states require no license to open carry
    • Only 7 states ban open carry in public
    • California allows open carry in many or most parts of rural areas, but figuring out precisely where it is banned (i.e., that guns must be unloaded) is so difficult that as a practical matter, open carry is not a realistic option.


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    Lone Star Veteran DrMark's Avatar
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    Congrats, my southern neighbor!



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    been waiting for this a long time. Still have a long way to go. Full preemtion, elimination of purchase permits, and restaurant carry just for starters.

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    Could someone explain to me exactly how/why NC has been given "gold" status? Is it simply because there is no law on the books specifically preventing open carry or has something changed recently?

    Although there is no law that says you can't open carry, in general NC residents don't feel the state is particularly friendly to open carry. There is also that whole "going armed to the terror of the public" thing which could land an open carrier in some hot water if he runs across the wrong soccer mom and cop.

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    Evil Drew M wrote:
    Could someone explain to me exactly how/why NC has been given "gold" status? Is it simply because there is no law on the books specifically preventing open carry . . . ?
    well, yeah, thats how the other states gold status, but seriously - NC is one of the few states with valid case law on the books saying the state cannot require a permit to open carry - State v. Kerner.

    A case like that is Gold!

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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    I was certain I would never see a State turn gold. I'm proud to eat my words.

    Maybe there really is hope left for this country. It certainly isn't coming for those who campaign under the word....
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
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    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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    Good job, guys!
    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

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    Curious...what would PA need to do to be considered Gold Star?
    States don’t have rights. People do.

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    way to go tarheel!!!!!

    now if you can do away with the purchase permits you will have it made. I always hated that about that place

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    mrjam2jab wrote:
    Curious...what would PA need to do to be considered Gold Star?
    Repeal the LTCF requirement to open carry in vehicles and Philadelphia.

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    Mike wrote:
    mrjam2jab wrote:
    Curious...what would PA need to do to be considered Gold Star?
    Repeal the LTCF requirement to open carry in vehicles and Philadelphia.
    Vehicle....possible...Philly requirement...I dont see that one happening...
    States don’t have rights. People do.

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    I thought the thing keeping NC from being gold was that Chapel Hill had a grandfathered OC ban. So does this court case overturn that ban? lf not NC is no different from Colorado or West Virginia.

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    Virginian683 wrote:
    I thought the thing keeping NC from being gold was that Chapel Hill had a grandfathered OC ban. So does this court case overturn that ban? lf not NC is no different from Colorado or West Virginia.
    Cary has the OC ban on city owned property, sidewalks, roads, etc. Chapel Hill has a size restriction. NC does allow cities and counties to restrict firearms on property owned or controled by them. But state law is in effect on all private property. Most cities do not address the issue though, just follow state law.

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    Virginian683 wrote:
    I thought the thing keeping NC from being gold was that Chapel Hill had a grandfathered OC ban.
    They do not have a grandfathered open carry ban. They have a gun size minimum, which appears lawful under State v. Kerner.

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    chiefjason wrote:
    Virginian683 wrote:
    I thought the thing keeping NC from being gold was that Chapel Hill had a grandfathered OC ban. So does this court case overturn that ban? lf not NC is no different from Colorado or West Virginia.
    Cary has the OC ban on city owned property, sidewalks, roads, etc. Chapel Hill has a size restriction. NC does allow cities and counties to restrict firearms on property owned or controled by them. But state law is in effect on all private property. Most cities do not address the issue though, just follow state law.
    The city of Cary's ban on sidewalks and roads is not enforceable, see State v. Kerner, and is not being enforced as open carriers have crried there without incident.

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    Thanks for the clarification.

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    As a resident of NC, and a holder of a current CHP, I'm glad to see that NC is recognized as a "gold star state" with regards to concealed carry.

    However, I don't know if I agree. We still have an absolute "restaurant ban" here in NC (open AND concealed), and Cary and Chapel Hill still have some wonky laws with regards to handguns.

    Also, we still have the antiquated, racist "handgun purchase permit" system in place here, which I find egregiously offensive, and morally indefensible in the 21st Century. I mean, I was under the assumption that Jim Crow was laid to rest in the 1950's.

    If NC overturned the "restaurant ban" and went to a law more like PA, I would be MUCH happier, and it would make going out to dinner with my wife and stepdaughters a LOT less complicated...

    And if we got rid of the racist "handgun purchase permit" system, it would be one HUGE step toward reconciling the centuries of racial bigotry that the Southern states are so well known for. Frankly I find it to be an embarrassment, and morally and ethically offensive., and I'm white. I can't even begin to imagine how it makes my brothers and sisters of color feel...

    But all that stuff aside, NC is WAY better than the People's Republic of Maryland, where we used to live, when it comes to firearms issues.
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Dreamer wrote:
    As a resident of NC, and a holder of a current CHP, I'm glad to see that NC is recognized as a "gold star state" with regards to concealed carry.

    However, I don't know if I agree. We still have an absolute "restaurant ban" here in NC (open AND concealed), and Cary and Chapel Hill still have some wonky laws with regards to handguns.

    Also, we still have the antiquated, racist "handgun purchase permit" system in place here, which I find egregiously offensive, and morally indefensible in the 21st Century. I mean, I was under the assumption that Jim Crow was laid to rest in the 1950's.

    If NC overturned the "restaurant ban" and went to a law more like PA, I would be MUCH happier, and it would make going out to dinner with my wife and stepdaughters a LOT less complicated...

    And if we got rid of the racist "handgun purchase permit" system, it would be one HUGE step toward reconciling the centuries of racial bigotry that the Southern states are so well known for. Frankly I find it to be an embarrassment, and morally and ethically offensive., and I'm white. I can't even begin to imagine how it makes my brothers and sisters of color feel...

    But all that stuff aside, NC is WAY better than the People's Republic of Maryland, where we used to live, when it comes to firearms issues.
    Dreamer, could you cite the statue for the highlighted comments in your post? The only off limit restaurantsthat I am aware ofare those which sell and serve alcohol. Also I did not know that certain races were banned or preferred in handgun purchase permits, would you cite that statue also?

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    By not allowing carry in restraunts that sell alcohol for consumption on the premisses, we are limited to very few eating establishments.

    As far as the purchase permits; Their origin was as a way to keep african americans and other 'lesser' people from acquiring firearms during the Jim Crow era. Now it is just a $5 fee for a background check.

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    IIRC, the $5 permit fee was something like 2-3% of an average persons annual wage when it was enacted way back in the 1910's. I did the math a while back and came up with something like that.

    Imagine today that they had adjusted it for inflation was $1000 to $1500. That would put it WAY out of reach for the poor. At the time of enactment, the poor consisted mostly of blacks and blue collar whites.

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    Under NC law, your local sheriff is not obligated to issue a pistol purchase permit, even if you meet all th requirements and pass the background check. It is essentially a "may issue" program. And if your permt is denied, the Sheriff is not required to tell you why.

    It is a bad law, and needs to be repealed. We need to go to a system like they have in VA, with "instant verification", where all gun dealers have a dedicated line to do NICS checks.

    Of course, I have a NC CHP, so I don't need to buy a Handgun Purchase Permit, but I think it's terribly unfair and inconvenient to require the majority of the residents of this state to use a system that is over 100 years old, and was based in racial and economic discrimination. NC has a reputation for being a state full of backward, redneck racists, and the HPP system just reinforces that stereotype.

    Come on, NC Legislature. Let's bring our state into the 21st century...
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Under NC law, your local sheriff is not obligated to issue a pistol purchase permit, even if you meet all the requirements and pass the background check. It is essentially a "may issue" program. And if your permit is denied, the Sheriff is not required to tell you why.
    Yes, the sheriff can deny you for poor moral character, but they are required by law to notify you why.

    http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/enactedl...gs_14-404.html

    § 14‑404. Issuance or refusal of permit; appeal from refusal; grounds for refusal; sheriff's fee.
    (a) Upon application, the sheriff shall issue the license or permit to a resident of that county, unless the purpose of the permit is for collecting, in which case a sheriff can issue a permit to a nonresident, when the sheriff has done all of the following:
    (1) Verified, before the issuance of a permit, by a criminal history background investigation that it is not a violation of State or federal law for the applicant to purchase, transfer, receive, or possess a handgun. The sheriff shall determine the criminal and background history of any applicant by accessing computerized criminal history records as maintained by the State Bureau of Investigation and the Federal Bureau of Investigation, by conducting a national criminal history records check, by conducting a check through the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS), and by conducting a criminal history check through the Administrative Office of the Courts.
    (2) Fully satisfied himself or herself by affidavits, oral evidence, or otherwise, as to the good moral character of the applicant.
    (3) Fully satisfied himself or herself that the applicant desires the possession of the weapon mentioned for (i) the protection of the home, business, person, family or property, (ii) target shooting, (iii) collecting, or (iv) hunting.
    (b) If the sheriff is not fully satisfied, the sheriff may, for good cause shown, decline to issue the license or permit and shall provide to the applicant within seven days of the refusal a written statement of the reason(s) for the refusal. An appeal from the refusal shall lie by way of petition to the chief judge of the district court for the district in which the application was filed. The determination by the court, on appeal, shall be upon the facts, the law, and the reasonableness of the sheriff's refusal, and shall be final.
    (c) A permit may not be issued to the following persons:
    (1) One who is under an indictment or information for or has been convicted in any state, or in any court of the United States, of a felony (other than an offense pertaining to antitrust violations, unfair trade practices, or restraints of trade). However, a person who has been convicted of a felony in a court of any state or in a court of the United States and who is later pardoned may obtain a permit, if the purchase or receipt of a pistol or crossbow permitted in this Article does not violate a condition of the pardon.
    (2) One who is a fugitive from justice.
    (3) One who is an unlawful user of or addicted to marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, or narcotic drug (as defined in 21 U.S.C. section 802).
    (4) One who has been adjudicated mentally incompetent or has been committed to any mental institution.
    (5) One who is an alien illegally or unlawfully in the United States.
    (6) One who has been discharged from the armed forces under dishonorable conditions.
    (7) One who, having been a citizen of the United States, has renounced his or her citizenship.
    (8) One who is subject to a court order that:
    a. Was issued after a hearing of which the person received actual notice, and at which the person had an opportunity to participate;
    b. Restrains the person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner of the person or child of the intimate partner of the person, or engaging in other conduct that would place an intimate partner in reasonable fear of bodily injury to the partner or child; and
    c. Includes a finding that the person represents a credible threat to the physical safety of the intimate partner or child; or by its terms explicitly prohibits the use, attempted use, or threatened use of physical force against the intimate partner or child that would reasonably be expected to cause bodily injury.
    (d) Nothing in this Article shall apply to officers authorized by law to carry firearms if the officers identify themselves to the vendor or donor as being officers authorized by law to carry firearms and state that the purpose for the purchase of the firearms is directly related to the law officers' official duties.
    (e) The sheriff shall charge for the sheriff's services upon issuing the license or permit a fee of five dollars ($5.00).
    (f) Each applicant for a license or permit shall be informed by the sheriff within 30 days of the date of the application whether the license or permit will be granted or denied and, if granted, the license or permit shall be immediately issued to the applicant.
    (g) An applicant shall not be ineligible to receive a permit under subsection [subdivision] (4) of subsection (c) of this section because of involuntary commitment to mental health services if the individual's rights have been restored under G.S. 122C‑54.1. (1919, c. 197, s. 3; C.S., s. 5108; 1959, c. 1073, s. 2; 1969, c. 73; 1981 (Reg. Sess., 1982), c. 1395, s. 1; 1987, c. 518, s. 1; 1995, c. 487, s. 2; 2006‑39, s. 1; 2006‑264, s. 4; 2008‑210, s. 3(a).)


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    Dreamer wrote:
    Under NC law, your local sheriff is not obligated to issue a pistol purchase permit, even if you meet all th requirements and pass the background check. It is essentially a "may issue" program. And if your permt is denied, the Sheriff is not required to tell you why.

    It is a bad law, and needs to be repealed. We need to go to a system like they have in VA, with "instant verification", where all gun dealers have a dedicated line to do NICS checks.

    Of course, I have a NC CHP, so I don't need to buy a Handgun Purchase Permit, but I think it's terribly unfair and inconvenient to require the majority of the residents of this state to use a system that is over 100 years old, and was based in racial and economic discrimination. NC has a reputation for being a state full of backward, redneck racists, and the HPP system just reinforces that stereotype.

    Come on, NC Legislature. Let's bring our state into the 21st century...
    Under NC law, your local sheriff is not obligated to issue a pistol purchase permit, even if you meet all th requirements and pass the background check. It is essentially a "may issue" program. And if your permt is denied, the Sheriff is not required to tell you why.


    Well actually the sheriff of your county does have to notify you through mail why your permit was denied seven days prior to refusal, that is NC law. Another, is NC, is a "Shall Issue" state, only to those who pass NICS background check successfully. "May Issue" states such as Maryland, New York, New Jersey, California, and Hawaii etc, are those restrictive states that require you to provide them with a **** load of reasons why you need a permit for a gun!

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    Mr. Glock wrote:
    Dreamer wrote:
    Under NC law, your local sheriff is not obligated to issue a pistol purchase permit, even if you meet all th requirements and pass the background check. It is essentially a "may issue" program. And if your permt is denied, the Sheriff is not required to tell you why.

    It is a bad law, and needs to be repealed. We need to go to a system like they have in VA, with "instant verification", where all gun dealers have a dedicated line to do NICS checks.

    Of course, I have a NC CHP, so I don't need to buy a Handgun Purchase Permit, but I think it's terribly unfair and inconvenient to require the majority of the residents of this state to use a system that is over 100 years old, and was based in racial and economic discrimination. NC has a reputation for being a state full of backward, redneck racists, and the HPP system just reinforces that stereotype.

    Come on, NC Legislature. Let's bring our state into the 21st century...
    Under NC law, your local sheriff is not obligated to issue a pistol purchase permit, even if you meet all th requirements and pass the background check. It is essentially a "may issue" program. And if your permt is denied, the Sheriff is not required to tell you why.


    Well actually the sheriff of your county does have to notify you through mail why your permit was denied seven days prior to refusal, that is NC law. Another, is NC, is a "Shall Issue" state, only to those who pass NICS background check successfully. "May Issue" states such as Maryland, New York, New Jersey, California, and Hawaii etc, are those restrictive states that require you to provide them with a @#$% load of reasons why you need a permit for a gun!

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    Does anyone else get the feeling that Dreamer is still asleep and is entering the REM stage of conscientiousness?

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