• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

North Carolina status upgraded to "Gold Star Open Carry State"

Dreamer

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2009
Messages
5,360
Location
Grennsboro NC
imported post

Under NC law, your local sheriff is not obligated to issue a pistol purchase permit, even if you meet all th requirements and pass the background check. It is essentially a "may issue" program. And if your permt is denied, the Sheriff is not required to tell you why.

It is a bad law, and needs to be repealed. We need to go to a system like they have in VA, with "instant verification", where all gun dealers have a dedicated line to do NICS checks.

Of course, I have a NC CHP, so I don't need to buy a Handgun Purchase Permit, but I think it's terribly unfair and inconvenient to require the majority of the residents of this state to use a system that is over 100 years old, and was based in racial and economic discrimination. NC has a reputation for being a state full of backward, redneck racists, and the HPP system just reinforces that stereotype.

Come on, NC Legislature. Let's bring our state into the 21st century...
 

mekender

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2008
Messages
462
Location
, ,
imported post

Under NC law, your local sheriff is not obligated to issue a pistol purchase permit, even if you meet all the requirements and pass the background check. It is essentially a "may issue" program. And if your permit is denied, the Sheriff is not required to tell you why.

Yes, the sheriff can deny you for poor moral character, but they are required by law to notify you why.

http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/enactedlegislation/statutes/html/bysection/chapter_14/gs_14-404.html

§ 14‑404. Issuance or refusal of permit; appeal from refusal; grounds for refusal; sheriff's fee.
(a) Upon application, the sheriff shall issue the license or permit to a resident of that county, unless the purpose of the permit is for collecting, in which case a sheriff can issue a permit to a nonresident, when the sheriff has done all of the following:
(1) Verified, before the issuance of a permit, by a criminal history background investigation that it is not a violation of State or federal law for the applicant to purchase, transfer, receive, or possess a handgun. The sheriff shall determine the criminal and background history of any applicant by accessing computerized criminal history records as maintained by the State Bureau of Investigation and the Federal Bureau of Investigation, by conducting a national criminal history records check, by conducting a check through the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS), and by conducting a criminal history check through the Administrative Office of the Courts.
(2) Fully satisfied himself or herself by affidavits, oral evidence, or otherwise, as to the good moral character of the applicant.
(3) Fully satisfied himself or herself that the applicant desires the possession of the weapon mentioned for (i) the protection of the home, business, person, family or property, (ii) target shooting, (iii) collecting, or (iv) hunting.
(b) If the sheriff is not fully satisfied, the sheriff may, for good cause shown, decline to issue the license or permit and shall provide to the applicant within seven days of the refusal a written statement of the reason(s) for the refusal. An appeal from the refusal shall lie by way of petition to the chief judge of the district court for the district in which the application was filed. The determination by the court, on appeal, shall be upon the facts, the law, and the reasonableness of the sheriff's refusal, and shall be final.
(c) A permit may not be issued to the following persons:
(1) One who is under an indictment or information for or has been convicted in any state, or in any court of the United States, of a felony (other than an offense pertaining to antitrust violations, unfair trade practices, or restraints of trade). However, a person who has been convicted of a felony in a court of any state or in a court of the United States and who is later pardoned may obtain a permit, if the purchase or receipt of a pistol or crossbow permitted in this Article does not violate a condition of the pardon.
(2) One who is a fugitive from justice.
(3) One who is an unlawful user of or addicted to marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, or narcotic drug (as defined in 21 U.S.C. section 802).
(4) One who has been adjudicated mentally incompetent or has been committed to any mental institution.
(5) One who is an alien illegally or unlawfully in the United States.
(6) One who has been discharged from the armed forces under dishonorable conditions.
(7) One who, having been a citizen of the United States, has renounced his or her citizenship.
(8) One who is subject to a court order that:
a. Was issued after a hearing of which the person received actual notice, and at which the person had an opportunity to participate;
b. Restrains the person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner of the person or child of the intimate partner of the person, or engaging in other conduct that would place an intimate partner in reasonable fear of bodily injury to the partner or child; and
c. Includes a finding that the person represents a credible threat to the physical safety of the intimate partner or child; or by its terms explicitly prohibits the use, attempted use, or threatened use of physical force against the intimate partner or child that would reasonably be expected to cause bodily injury.
(d) Nothing in this Article shall apply to officers authorized by law to carry firearms if the officers identify themselves to the vendor or donor as being officers authorized by law to carry firearms and state that the purpose for the purchase of the firearms is directly related to the law officers' official duties.
(e) The sheriff shall charge for the sheriff's services upon issuing the license or permit a fee of five dollars ($5.00).
(f) Each applicant for a license or permit shall be informed by the sheriff within 30 days of the date of the application whether the license or permit will be granted or denied and, if granted, the license or permit shall be immediately issued to the applicant.
(g) An applicant shall not be ineligible to receive a permit under subsection [subdivision] (4) of subsection (c) of this section because of involuntary commitment to mental health services if the individual's rights have been restored under G.S. 122C‑54.1. (1919, c. 197, s. 3; C.S., s. 5108; 1959, c. 1073, s. 2; 1969, c. 73; 1981 (Reg. Sess., 1982), c. 1395, s. 1; 1987, c. 518, s. 1; 1995, c. 487, s. 2; 2006‑39, s. 1; 2006‑264, s. 4; 2008‑210, s. 3(a).)
 

Mr. Glock

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2009
Messages
19
Location
Raleigh, North Carolina, USA
imported post

Dreamer wrote:
Under NC law, your local sheriff is not obligated to issue a pistol purchase permit, even if you meet all th requirements and pass the background check. It is essentially a "may issue" program. And if your permt is denied, the Sheriff is not required to tell you why.

It is a bad law, and needs to be repealed. We need to go to a system like they have in VA, with "instant verification", where all gun dealers have a dedicated line to do NICS checks.

Of course, I have a NC CHP, so I don't need to buy a Handgun Purchase Permit, but I think it's terribly unfair and inconvenient to require the majority of the residents of this state to use a system that is over 100 years old, and was based in racial and economic discrimination. NC has a reputation for being a state full of backward, redneck racists, and the HPP system just reinforces that stereotype.

Come on, NC Legislature. Let's bring our state into the 21st century...

Under NC law, your local sheriff is not obligated to issue a pistol purchase permit, even if you meet all th requirements and pass the background check. It is essentially a "may issue" program. And if your permt is denied, the Sheriff is not required to tell you why.


Well actually the sheriff of your county does have to notify you through mail why your permit was denied seven days prior to refusal, that is NC law. Another, is NC, is a "Shall Issue" state, only to those who pass NICS background check successfully. "May Issue" states such as Maryland, New York, New Jersey, California, and Hawaii etc, are those restrictive states that require you to provide them with a shit load of reasons why you need a permit for a gun!:cuss::banghead::cuss::banghead::cuss:
 

Mr. Glock

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2009
Messages
19
Location
Raleigh, North Carolina, USA
imported post

Mr. Glock wrote:
Dreamer wrote:
Under NC law, your local sheriff is not obligated to issue a pistol purchase permit, even if you meet all th requirements and pass the background check. It is essentially a "may issue" program. And if your permt is denied, the Sheriff is not required to tell you why.

It is a bad law, and needs to be repealed. We need to go to a system like they have in VA, with "instant verification", where all gun dealers have a dedicated line to do NICS checks.

Of course, I have a NC CHP, so I don't need to buy a Handgun Purchase Permit, but I think it's terribly unfair and inconvenient to require the majority of the residents of this state to use a system that is over 100 years old, and was based in racial and economic discrimination. NC has a reputation for being a state full of backward, redneck racists, and the HPP system just reinforces that stereotype.

Come on, NC Legislature. Let's bring our state into the 21st century...

Under NC law, your local sheriff is not obligated to issue a pistol purchase permit, even if you meet all th requirements and pass the background check. It is essentially a "may issue" program. And if your permt is denied, the Sheriff is not required to tell you why.


Well actually the sheriff of your county does have to notify you through mail why your permit was denied seven days prior to refusal, that is NC law. Another, is NC, is a "Shall Issue" state, only to those who pass NICS background check successfully. "May Issue" states such as Maryland, New York, New Jersey, California, and Hawaii etc, are those restrictive states that require you to provide them with a @#$% load of reasons why you need a permit for a gun!:cuss::banghead::cuss::banghead::cuss:
 

American Patriot

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2009
Messages
280
Location
, ,
imported post

Does anyone else get the feeling that Dreamer is still asleep and is entering the REM stage of conscientiousness? :banghead: :)
 

mekender

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2008
Messages
462
Location
, ,
imported post

Mr Glock.... The sheriff MAY deny a purchase permit to anyone simply because he feels that the person is not of good moral character... It does happen.

The CCH permits are another thing and are shall issue though I know a couple of people that have been denied because the sheriff didnt like the idea of them having one.
 

Dreamer

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2009
Messages
5,360
Location
Grennsboro NC
imported post

mekender wrote:
Mr Glock.... The sheriff MAY deny a purchase permit to anyone simply because he feels that the person is not of good moral character... It does happen.

The CCH permits are another thing and are shall issue though I know a couple of people that have been denied because the sheriff didnt like the idea of them having one.

Yes, this is correct. With regards to CHP's NC is in fact a "Shall Issue" state.

However, with regards to HPP's, it's not quite so cut and dried, because the whole "good moral character" judgment call can enter into the process. There is no statory requirement for Sheriffs to issue HPP in NC, although truth be told, denials are pretty rare these days.

My point isn't that the HPP program is still being used to discriminate against people because of their economic or racial situation. My point is that is is a badly-constructed law based on racist ideology and it is still on the books. Old, bad laws are still BAD LAWS if they are still on the books. It is not just a matter of principle. Laws like this are a gateway to potential abuse of the system and they need to be taken off the books and done away with.

NC is one of the only "gun friendly" state in the union that still has this sort of purchase permit program on the books. I have a CHP, so it doesn't really matter to me personally, but the point is this is a BAD LAW and needs to be taken off the books. It serves no legitimate procedural purpose, and is obviously there for only two reasons: revenue enhancement and the potential for enforcing selective ownership of handguns.

I would LOVE to hear anyone give a rational, intelligent justification of this process. In fact, I DARE anyone to come up with a logical, rational reason NC still uses this procedure...
 

Dreamer

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2009
Messages
5,360
Location
Grennsboro NC
imported post

Mr. Glock wrote:
Well actually the sheriff of your county does have to notify you through mail why your permit was denied seven days prior to refusal, that is NC law. Another, is NC, is a "Shall Issue" state, only to those who pass NICS background check successfully. "May Issue" states such as Maryland, New York, New Jersey, California, and Hawaii etc, are those restrictive states that require you to provide them with a @#$% load of reasons why you need a permit for a gun!:cuss::banghead::cuss::banghead::cuss:
Having lived in MD briefly, I can tell you that unless you are a politician, a high-powered Lawyer, or VERY politically connected, if you are a civilian, it doesn't matter WHAT reasons you provide as to "need". You WILL be denied a CC permit. Now, on the other hand, MD Senator Barbara Mikulski had a CC permit in MD for years, even though she is one of the most vocal anti-gun votes in the Senate. I think she stopped renewing her permit a year or so ago though, because the pro-gun lobby started to publically "out" all the supposedly anti-gun legistlator who had CC permits, like Mikulsky and Barbara Boxer.

And Hawaii has not, to my knowledge EVER issued a CC permit to a civilian. One sherrif did a few year ago (to his Sister-in-Law, if I recall) and there was such a HUGE outcry from the LE and Judiciary that he revoked it shortly thereafter...
 
Top