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Thread: OC Weekend

  1. #1
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    OK everyone.. I am guaging interest here. If there is enough interest I will organize an event with enough advance notice so anyone interested will have time to adjust their schedules and attend.

    Here is what I am thinking..
    We have a camping and fishing weekend at a state park and OC the entire weekend.

    If there is enough interest I will contact the state parks and find a good location where we can accomplish this and organize activities for the day and evening.

    You can expect to have to pay for at least the camping fees at the state parks. Possibly a day fee if not camping.

    Let me know folks.. if there is interest or not.

    Reb

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    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    I don't like camping (I grew up inside playing video games), but if a bunch of people signed up I'd come.

    Your idea does bring up an interesting point. If there were a crowded place that allows OC, (i.e., exceptions to 790.053), that would be interesting indeed. Where is a place that has a lot of trails to hike with a lot of traffic on them? The only places we can get any exposure to people who aren't on our mission.

    I was on the silver river, in the silver river state park this summer, and there were trails alongside the river, picnic tables, etc, and it was very crowded. Come to think of it, I think there are several locations in ocala national forest where I could open carry.

    I don't know anyone who has ever oc'd a pistol while hiking in FL.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  3. #3
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    i'm down. just depends on location...i'm in bradenton
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    I too may attend. It just depends on when and where. I am in the tampa area also. I sure hope we dont get arrested


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    Regular Member hammer6's Avatar
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    Glock23-4-Me wrote:
    I too may attend. It just depends on when and where. I am in the tampa area also. I sure hope we dont get arrested
    can't while camping
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    hammer6 wrote:
    Glock23-4-Me wrote:
    I too may attend. It just depends on when and where. I am in the tampa area also. I sure hope we dont get arrested
    can't while camping
    I know thats what the law says, but not every leo knows the law. The law also says you can OC on the way to and from camping but if you were to stop by walmart on the way to the campground to get supplies, although within the letter of the law, do you honestly think leo would not arrest you. I am just being a realist. Again, I know the law says you can and you will beat the wrap, but you wont beat the ride.

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    Glock23-4-Me wrote:
    hammer6 wrote:
    Glock23-4-Me wrote:
    I too may attend. It just depends on when and where. I am in the tampa area also. I sure hope we dont get arrested
    can't while camping
    I know thats what the law says, but not every leo knows the law. The law also says you can OC on the way to and from camping but if you were to stop by walmart on the way to the campground to get supplies, although within the letter of the law, do you honestly think leo would not arrest you. I am just being a realist. Again, I know the law says you can and you will beat the wrap, but you wont beat the ride.
    Very pragmatic point of view. I tend to agree. While I was holding this card closer to the vest, I fully intend on contacting and arranging at least counsel to be available if not present. I was simply trying to gauge the interest with this thread.

    Given the interest of at least a few people, I will start working on logistics and keep everyone updated.

    Reb
    American by birth, Southern by choice

  8. #8
    Regular Member hammer6's Avatar
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    Glock23-4-Me wrote:
    hammer6 wrote:
    Glock23-4-Me wrote:
    I too may attend. It just depends on when and where. I am in the tampa area also. I sure hope we dont get arrested
    can't while camping
    I know thats what the law says, but not every leo knows the law. The law also says you can OC on the way to and from camping but if you were to stop by walmart on the way to the campground to get supplies, although within the letter of the law, do you honestly think leo would not arrest you. I am just being a realist. Again, I know the law says you can and you will beat the wrap, but you wont beat the ride.

    i've actually been wanting to test that letter of the law...because it says open carry is permitted to and from going to the shooting range...but yeah what if i stop to get gas? or stop to buy a drink? or food?? exactly.....that's why florida just needs open carry period. haha
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    Regular Member ADulay's Avatar
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    All,

    It would appear that if we actually do go ahead with this OC meeting at a "camp site" that we have a point of contact who will scout the area ahead of time and besides finding a good location for the event, that they will contact the local "controlling authority" and ask some questions. One would think we could head off problems by checking ahead and seeing how the sheriff's office or local police department will handle a group of 10 or so "campers" with open carried weapons.

    If you just kind of show up and drop on their doorstep, it might really shock some of these local guys into unneeded harrassment or worse. Legal or not, a lot of these guys spook pretty easily and a radio call that starts "a group of men with guns" is at the XYZ campground will not go over well.

    So, let's find a place and make the local contact and it should flow pretty nicely from there.

    I haven't camped since Viet-Nam, where I got all the camping I could ever want but I will be at the camp site all day for the meeting.

    AD
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  10. #10
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    The first bump in the road to an OC Weekend.

    In beginning to scout out places for an event I decided to begin by looking at Florida State Parks. I found that "alcholic beverages and firearms are prohibited" at ALL Florida State Parks.

    So needless to say I will be scouting other venues for this effort. But I find it interesting that Florida law allows me to legally open carry while camping, hunting, fishing etc yet a division of the Florida State government disallows this for those activities.

    This is another issue that needs to be addressed with our state legislatures and am placing it on the list of action items.

    Reb
    American by birth, Southern by choice.

  11. #11
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    http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/florida.pdf


    790.25 allows for carry in state parks, state/national forests and wildlife management areas.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  12. #12
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    So basically, we can tell these state parks, "tough, deal with it."
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  13. #13
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    77zach wrote:
    http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/florida.pdf


    790.25 allows for carry in state parks, state/national forests and wildlife management areas.
    Part of my nature is not to believe anything I find on the Internet unless I can verify it otherwise. I went to the Florida Statutes themselves:

    http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/...EChapter%20790

    and found nothing in 790.25 which stated anything about state parks, lands, etc as being legal to carry other than other than section (h) as reads below:
    (h)A person engaged in fishing, camping, or lawful hunting or going to or returning from a fishing, camping, or lawful hunting expedition;

    Perhaps this site you referenced has outdated information. I do not know. But the current regulations do not appear to address this issue.

    On a brighter note, it appears that there is a letter in Va regarding this topic. Go to the Virginia page and click the link to read the attorney generals opinion regarding this topic in VA... my wheels are already clicking zack..

    also.. please see the other thread and let me know if you are available for an irc chat meeting to form a florida OC group.

    Reb
    American by birth, Southern by Choice

  14. #14
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/wea...ossession.html


    http://floridaconcealedcarry.com/For...ead.php?t=4791



    the law allowing carry took there took effect in october of 06. I got my CCW in september, and the sheriff doing the "safety class" said that next month you could carry in those places IF you had a CCW. I remember reading an article about it after it took effect in the orlando sentinel about how little children were going to be mowed down and the world would end.

    Looks like most parks still haven't changed the signs though.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  15. #15
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    I guess it doesn't matter though, you are correct. Even if we all have permits, we have to conceal. Nice little contradiction they have in the laws.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  16. #16
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    zack,

    take a look at this thread. I am hoping to get some help in constructing a letter to send to the attorney general, the dept of environ protection, and legislatures asap.

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum65/31456.html


    Reb
    American by birth, Southern by choice


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    why not just have the camping trip in a county park? Are there county parks that have camping or are they only state parks. You can OC in a county park if you were camping. The law just seems to apply to state parks

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    Deleted.....



    I see you have already posted the relevant law in the other thread.

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    There used to be a restriction on carrying in parks and national forest in FL even with a CCW. That law was repealed in 2006.

    As far as any current administrative regulations, they are invalid under the preemption statute.

    Call the state park service. Ask them whether you are allowed to carry in a state park. Get names of folks you talk to and let us know the results.


    THIS POST IS FOR PURPOSE OF DISCUSSION ONLY. NO ATTORNEY CLIENT RELATIONSHIP IS INTENDED OR IMPLIED.

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    fridaddy wrote:
    Call the state park service. Ask them whether you are allowed to carry in a state park. Get names of folks you talk to and let us know the results.


    THIS POST IS FOR PURPOSE OF DISCUSSION ONLY. NO ATTORNEY CLIENT RELATIONSHIP IS INTENDED OR IMPLIED.
    Actually that is on my list of things to get done this week. I wanted to get it done today but real life took precedence.

    Reb
    American by birth, Southern by choice.

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    I may go, dependent on location and time.

    Rebel, a positive event like this could be used as extra weight in your letter to the DEP. Media attention might be a good idea.

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    Tucky wrote:
    I may go, dependent on location and time.

    Rebel, a positive event like this could be used as extra weight in your letter to the DEP. Media attention might be a good idea.
    Would love to have you show up Tucky. Hope you can make it once it gets rolling.

    I am in the process of contacting several parks to discuss with rangers and see what response I get. Keeping notes. My timeframe and action items are to have the contacts all made, a letter written and updates made by next Tuesday.

    Will keep everyone informed.

    Rebel
    American by birth, Southern by choice.

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    fridaddy wrote:
    There used to be a restriction on carrying in parks and national forest in FL even with a CCW. That law was repealed in 2006.

    As far as any current administrative regulations, they are invalid under the preemption statute.

    Call the state park service. Ask them whether you are allowed to carry in a state park. Get names of folks you talk to and let us know the results.


    THIS POST IS FOR PURPOSE OF DISCUSSION ONLY. NO ATTORNEY CLIENT RELATIONSHIP IS INTENDED OR IMPLIED.
    Hello fridaddy!

    I take it by your post you are an attorney. I just wanted you to know that I appreciate your stopping by and any pointers you can supply etc.

    If I am successful in my efforts, I may have need to your services on a more long term basis. It would be really nice for the first few events to have counsel available should any issues arise. Specifically what I mean by this is that should an issue come up and we are asked to disarm and or dispurse, we would comply with these requests. However they would not be legal requests and we would need to do something about it after the fact.
    Just like fighting a traffic ticket, very seldom is there any point in arguing with the officer at the scene. Never advisable IMO.

    Subsequently, I am attempting to form a core group to move the OC issue through the legislative process. Definitely legal advise and opinions will be necessary at differing times through that process.

    Please PM me with details on how to contact you in the future.

    Rebel - Patriot
    American by birth, Southern by choice.

  24. #24
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    Hello. This thread intrigued me. I contacted the park service, and they responded with;


    Dear M,

    Thank you for your interest in Florida State Parks. Yes, firearms are allowed in state parks locked up in your vehicle or temporary housing. You can have the gun in your possession if you have a concealed weapons permit. You need to have your concealed weapons permit with you. You would also need to touch base with park staff to inform them of your permit and that you will be carrying within the park on your person.




    Per Florida Administrative Code 62D-2.014(10):

    (10) Hunting and Firearms. Hunting, trapping or the pursuit of wildlife is prohibited on all state park property, except in Reserves, as authorized by the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission. Weapons shall at all times be in possession of a responsible party or properly secured within or to a vehicle or temporary housing, which shall include motor homes, travel trailers, recreational vehicles, campers, tents, or other enclosed structures, while in state parks. Properly secured means the weapon shall be locked away and not accessible to minors, and if in a tent means the weapon shall be secured in a locked container. No person shall use or openly display in any state park weapons such as firearms of any type, air rifles, spring guns, cross bows, bows and arrows, gigs (except in areas where gigs may be legally used for saltwater fishing), sling shots, electronic weapons, devices which fire a dart or projectile, or any other forms of weapons or trapping devices potentially dangerous to wildlife or human safety except when such weapons or traps are used for resource management purposes as authorized in this subsection. Shooting weapons into park areas from beyond park boundaries is prohibited. The Division may authorize the control of nuisance animals and may remove all nuisance or exotic animals from parks by trapping and other necessary means for park resource management purposes. Such authorization shall be in the form of a letter of authorization, license, permit, or contract negotiated by the parties or made pursuant to an advertised bid by the Division. Authorization may be obtained in the same manner as stated in subsection 62D-2.013(7), F.A.C., herein.



    Let me know if you have any further questions.



    Sincerely,

    Leylani Velez

    Information Specialist

    850-245-2157

    http://www.floridastateparks.org

    Re:
    Florida Statutes allow a person to openly carry a handgun while "engaged in fishing, camping, or lawful hunting or going to or returning from a fishing, camping, or lawful hunting expedition. FS790.25(3)(h) / 790.053 What is the parks policy on this?




    Email: DGO@daytonagunowners.com

    888888888888888888888888888888

    Now the preemption is an issue, and I contacted the Florida atty General today to ask for a clarification, but they were unwilling to do so. They instructed me to contact a general civil rights atty in my area and ask them. I have a friend that is the local prosecutor, and I will try to catch up with him in a few days to see if he can give me an answer, but my guess is that it will fall into the catagory of, yes, it is legal, yes the laws conflict, yes you will be arrested if you try it and yes you will have to battle it out in court - right or wrong.

    The smart thing to do is to file a lawsuit and request clarification.

    BUT, and this is a big but. Um, you can carry while fishing, and there are plenty of places to go fishing that are NOT state parks. This AM only covers state and federal parks. If you are, say, at the ocean, or on a river on private property, or on a roadway near a river, then I can't see you having a problem.



    Oh!! one more thing. City parks would also not be included.


  25. #25
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    I and a group of friends are planning a series of camping and fishing trips to various state parks. During these trips all members of my group will be openly carrying firearms on their persons both while camping and fishing as provided by Florida State Law Statute 790.25 subsection h.

    I was quite perplexed and dismayed in researching Florida Parks to come across Florida Administrative Code 62D-2.014 (10)dated 2June2009 as published on the departments website, which clearly states "No person shall use or openly display in any state park weapons such as firearms of any type".

    To my knowledge, in 2006 law was passed by the Florida Legislature which became effective 1 Oct 2006 which directed the DEP to come into compliance with all Florida regulations. Previously referenced Florida Statute 790.25 (h) allows Florida residents to openly carry firearms while engaged in camping, fishing, and hunting activities or in transit to and from those activities.

    I would like the DEP's written assurances that myself, and my friends, can indeed openly carry firearms while engaged in these legal activities on State Parks properties and roadways.

    I look forward to your reply and thank you in advance for your time spent on this matter.

    Kind Regards

    Submitted to Florida State Parks via email webform on
    (http://www.floridastateparks.org/com...s/feedback.cfm)
    Thursday September 17, 2009 at 2:14 am

    I will post their reply if and when I get it.

    Rebel
    American by birth, Southern by choice.


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