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Thread: First run in with State Trooper

  1. #1
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    So I was OCing in Maple Valleyoff 167 and stopped at a shell gas station to get some sodas for my wife and my son, it was about 9:30 so already dark, i pulled up and immediately sawa state trooper putting gas in his car, he seemed to notice my side arm quickly,Idon’t know ifhe was sure ofof what to do, it looked like he wanted to stop pumping gas and do something, but kept being real squirrely.

    So I said good evening and got no comment, so I went inside and got my drinks, the cashier apparently didn’t see my side arm, but I kept glancing out at the Trooper and he was just staring at me, so I paid for my drinks and left walking back to my car I swear this guy must have been pissed off because he looked like I just kicked his dog or something, it was just this real cold stare, anyway jumped in my car and off I went

    well sure enough he pulled our right after me and followed me for some time, I assume he was waiting forme to make a mistake, after about 5 min he passed me and off he went.

    It seems that at least they are getting the training on OC being legal; I just think it pisses some of them off.



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    i havent had any bad run ins with troopers. I stopped at a rollover along with a bunch of other people, and got my trauma kit out of my trunk. and went up i took my shirt off so they could cover her face while we removed some of the window glass. then the fire dept showed up and we helped hold the door open while they pulled her out the back. I didnt have my shirt on so my glock was there in plain view. I had to wait for them to get her out before they got me my shirt back. but the 3 officers who showed up didnt think anything of it they did ask me for my cpl but other than that everything was fine. no second looks from the people or the fd.

    i did have one person say your bleeding cause I got a small cut on my leg but I never noticed it.

    I admit some it depends on the officers. most king county basedtroopers are new recruits. so it depends on their moods working a all nighter sure wouldn't make the most happy trooper I'm sure.

    i guess asking about the other troopers who got those bogus degrees mgiht have broken the ice better

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    Boo Boo wrote:
    i havent had any bad run ins with troopers. I stopped at a rollover along with a bunch of other people, and got my trauma kit out of my trunk. and went up i took my shirt off so they could cover her face while we removed some of the window glass. then the fire dept showed up and we helped hold the door open while they pulled her out the back. I didnt have my shirt on so my glock was there in plain view. I had to wait for them to get her out before they got me my shirt back. but the 3 officers who showed up didnt think anything of it they did ask me for my cpl but other than that everything was fine. no second looks from the people or the fd.
    if 3 pfficers saw you , and thought nothing of it, and your there helping to save life, i would be pissed off no end if they ask for my cpl! do they think youre stopping to help people so you can display your gun? besides, when they saw you, you were OC, why want a CPL? why would you even show it to them?
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

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    Campaign Veteran OlGutshotWilly's Avatar
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    2, 4, 5 A defender wrote:
    Boo Boo wrote:
    i havent had any bad run ins with troopers. I stopped at a rollover along with a bunch of other people, and got my trauma kit out of my trunk. and went up i took my shirt off so they could cover her face while we removed some of the window glass. then the fire dept showed up and we helped hold the door open while they pulled her out the back.* I didnt have my shirt on so my glock was there in plain view.* I had to wait for them to get her out before they got me my shirt back. but the 3 officers who showed up didnt think anything of it they did ask me for my cpl but other than that everything was fine. no second looks from the people or the fd.
    if 3 pfficers saw you , and thought nothing of it, and your there helping to save life, i would be pissed off no end if they ask for my cpl!* do they think youre stopping to help people so you can display your gun?* besides, when they saw you, you were OC, why want a CPL?* why would you even show it to them?

    Ummmmmmm...........possibly..........because he got out of a vehicle OC'ing and had to get back in a vehicle OC'ing to leave?

    Just a wild guess here:?

    Cheers,
    Bill
    THE SECOND AMENDMENT: Washington didn't use his right to free speech to defeat the British, he shot them.
    ---------------------------------------------
    Government is not reason; it is not eloquent -- it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master."
    --George Washington,
    first U.S. president

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    They would want to see a CPL because he was previously CCing.

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    Ummmmmmm...........possibly..........because he got out of a vehicle OC'ing and had to get back in a vehicle OC'ing to leave?

    Just a wild guess here:?

    Cheers,
    Bill







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    They would want to see a CPL because he was previously CCing.
    while you two blithly give up your 4 A rights, why dont you show him your good sammaritan license too!

    theres really no good reason to ask for a CPL, unless there is RAS, probable cause, or a crime afoot.

    carrying a gun is none of those!! once you take off your shirt, whose to know weather you were OC or CC, and it shouldnt matter anyways. if they see you carry a gun in a legal fashion, then there is no criminality!
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

  7. #7
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    If LEO have reason to believe you are or were CCing a firearm, they have the right to ask you to display your CPL.

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    sirpuma wrote:
    If LEO have reason to believe you are or were CCing a firearm, they have the right to ask you to display your CPL.
    i dont think "reason to believe" is a legal standard. if the cop actually saw you go from OC to CC then maybe they could ask.
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

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    Reason to believe would = reasonable suspicion in my opinion.

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    2, 4, 5 A defender wrote:
    Boo Boo wrote:
    i havent had any bad run ins with troopers. I stopped at a rollover along with a bunch of other people, and got my trauma kit out of my trunk. and went up i took my shirt off so they could cover her face while we removed some of the window glass. then the fire dept showed up and we helped hold the door open while they pulled her out the back. I didnt have my shirt on so my glock was there in plain view. I had to wait for them to get her out before they got me my shirt back. but the 3 officers who showed up didnt think anything of it they did ask me for my cpl but other than that everything was fine. no second looks from the people or the fd.
    if 3 pfficers saw you , and thought nothing of it, and your there helping to save life, i would be pissed off no end if they ask for my cpl! do they think youre stopping to help people so you can display your gun? besides, when they saw you, you were OC, why want a CPL? why would you even show it to them?
    It does seem like a ****** move though, thanks for helping this person by the way are your papers in order?

  11. #11
    Campaign Veteran OlGutshotWilly's Avatar
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    2, 4, 5 A defender wrote:



    Ummmmmmm...........possibly..........because he got out of a vehicle OC'ing and had to get back in a vehicle OC'ing to leave?

    Just a wild guess here:?

    Cheers,
    Bill






    *
    Quote
    *
    *
    Reply
    *

    They would want to see a CPL because he was previously CCing.
    while you two blithly give up your* 4 A rights, why dont you show him your good sammaritan license too!

    theres really no good reason to ask for a CPL, unless there is RAS, probable cause, or a crime afoot.

    carrying a gun is none of those!!** once you take off your shirt, whose to know weather you were OC or CC, and it shouldnt matter anyways. if they see you carry a gun in a legal fashion, then there is no criminality!
    245,
    You seem incapable of answering with articulate well thought out replies. You consistently use sarcasm and outlandish statements heaped with lots of exclamation points to belittle and castigate anyone who doesn't parrot your viewpoint.

    I would have expected you to articulate that if the officers saw him getting out of the car with the gun, or knew he was getting back in the car with the gun, they have RAS to ask to see the permit. Or do they just assume you have the permit? You state "if they see you carry a gun in legal fashion, then there is no criminality!!!!!!!" [damn, did I get too many exclamation points in there?]

    I would say, if they saw him getting into the car or knew he would be getting into his car, then carrying the gun in a "legal fashon" requires a CPL, and they can request to see it as soon as he enters the car. That is the way I read the law.

    Is this what happened? I have no idea. I agree that as an individual who stopped and helped as a samaritan it is a bit of an insult to ask for the permit.

    Now, to give you a break and assume you were entirely serious about showing our "samaritan" licenses, I have to inform you that he had no "duty to act" and therefore was not required to show his samaritan license. If he had a "duty to act" then he needs to be carrying his license on him to show that he is not practicing medicine without a license.

    Cheers,
    Bill
    THE SECOND AMENDMENT: Washington didn't use his right to free speech to defeat the British, he shot them.
    ---------------------------------------------
    Government is not reason; it is not eloquent -- it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master."
    --George Washington,
    first U.S. president

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    n15wb wrote:
    I would say, if they saw him getting into the car or knew he would be getting into his car, then carrying the gun in a "legal fashon" requires a CPL, and they can request to see it as soon as he enters the car. That is the way I read the law.
    by your logic, i wonder if the simple act of driving the car, and needing a drivers license to drive the car, would trigger a request to see "it"?

    needing a license to do something, is not RAS to see the license!
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

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    Kildars wrote:
    Reason to believe would = reasonable suspicion in my opinion.
    So, if you are walking down the street with a jacket under your arm and your gun OC in a holster on the opposite hip, a cop can demand your CPL because you "might" have been wearing the jacket earlier and been CCing?

    I don't think that qualifies a reasonable suspicion.

    For all he knows, you were driving while wearing the jacket, with the gun in the trunk, stopped, took off the jacket and put on the gun, with the intent to carry the jacket down the street to the dry cleaner.

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    I understand both sides of the argument here, and I can agree with points of both as well. I have been in a couple of similar situations (I've rolled up on 4 serious accidents in the past 4 years, either having witnessed them, or within 30 seconds of them happening. Three of those times, I was CCing on my belt, under my shirt, and in one instance was sure that the officer noticed me 'printing' during my course of assisting before the Fire Department showed up. He did not say anything, but if had requested, then its not a big deal for me to show him my CPL, nor would it have been had I been CCing then OCing like the above poster.

    You catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar, and I would much rather have a few local cops witness an armed citizen with a CPLin action as a good samaritan, than to help out and then make the whole scene a2nd and 4thAmendmentarguing match. The first option makes the general opinion of CPL holders that much betterin the eyes of those three cops. Subconciously, they will think to themselves, "Those guyswho carry can really be a resource to us when we need help." And those are the same guys who will readily accept and support thoseOC trainingbulletins when they come out in their department. Honey or vinegar, its up to you.

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    G20-IWB24/7 wrote:
    I understand both sides of the argument here, and I can agree with points of both as well. I have been in a couple of similar situations (I've rolled up on 4 serious accidents in the past 4 years, either having witnessed them, or within 30 seconds of them happening. Three of those times, I was CCing on my belt, under my shirt, and in one instance was sure that the officer noticed me 'printing' during my course of assisting before the Fire Department showed up. He did not say anything, but if had requested, then its not a big deal for me to show him my CPL, nor would it have been had I been CCing then OCing like the above poster.

    You catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar, and I would much rather have a few local cops witness an armed citizen with a CPLin action as a good samaritan, than to help out and then make the whole scene a2nd and 4thAmendmentarguing match. The first option makes the general opinion of CPL holders that much betterin the eyes of those three cops. Subconciously, they will think to themselves, "Those guyswho carry can really be a resource to us when we need help." And those are the same guys who will readily accept and support thoseOC trainingbulletins when they come out in their department. Honey or vinegar, its up to you.
    Nice point + 1

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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    sirpuma wrote:
    If LEO have reason to believe you are or were CCing a firearm, they have the right to ask you to display your CPL.
    No they do not. Really they can't even ask you for a conceal carrylicense if they saw you printing or see a concealed gun. It would be like asking every person that is driving for a drivers license, they can only do that if they stopped you lawfully (some RAS).

    The LEO has to assume you are lawful until he can articulate a reason he thinks you are not lawful. The mere presence of a firearm is not RASwhether concealed or otherwise.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Troopers have always been good to me

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum55/14518.html

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    Venator wrote:
    sirpuma wrote:
    If LEO have reason to believe you are or were CCing a firearm, they have the right to ask you to display your CPL.
    No they do not. Really they can't even ask you for a conceal carrylicense if they saw you printing or see a concealed gun. It would be like asking every person that is driving for a drivers license, they can only do that if they stopped you lawfully (some RAS).

    The LEO has to assume you are lawful until he can articulate a reason he thinks you are not lawful. The mere presence of a firearm is not RASwhether concealed or otherwise.
    Maybe so but all laws until decided otherwise by a court are assumed to be constitutional. We have a law in Wa. that says we must display our CPL upon demand to any LEO when we are required to have one.

    We are required to have one while CC'ing so by state law, until it is ruled unconstitutional, requires us to display it upon their demand.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

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    joeroket wrote:
    Venator wrote:
    sirpuma wrote:
    If LEO have reason to believe you are or were CCing a firearm, they have the right to ask you to display your CPL.
    No they do not.* Really they can't even ask you* for a conceal carry*license if they saw you printing or see a concealed gun.* It would be like asking every person that is driving for a drivers license, they can only do that if they stopped you lawfully (some RAS).

    The LEO has to assume you are lawful until he can articulate a reason he thinks you are not lawful.* The mere presence of a firearm is not RAS*whether concealed or otherwise.
    Maybe so but all laws until decided otherwise by a court are assumed to be constitutional. We have a law in Wa. that says we must display our CPL upon demand to any LEO when we are required to have one.

    We are required to have one while CC'ing so by state law, until it is ruled unconstitutional, requires us to display it upon their demand.
    This is what I have been trying to point out. Likely not in as articulate way as I would like to. I agree with 245's premise of preserving our constitutional amendments even if I don't always like his style. But the drivers license issue has been defined by court cases. There have been test cases which have defined the limits of RAS much better.

    From our own FAQ's per 9.41.50:
    21) Who am I required to show my CPL to, and when?
    The law is somewhat vague, and the wording even worse, but essentially if you are required to have a CPL in your posession, you are obligated to produce it to qualified persons (such as law enforcement) if they demand it. Also since you have to have a CPL to carry loaded on a vehicle, regardless of OC or CC, I would argue a transit vehicle operator might also want to see a CPL before allowing you on the vehicle. There are no firm rules or laws on this matter that I am aware of though. Essentially I would produce to people such as cops or transit operators if the CPL is required by them to verify my legal status to carry the gun.
    and the law:
    (1)(a) Except in the person's place of abode or fixed place of business, a person shall not carry a pistol concealed on his or her person without a license to carry a concealed pistol.

    (b) Every licensee shall have his or her concealed pistol license in his or her immediate possession at all times that he or she is required by this section to have a concealed pistol license and shall display the same upon demand to any police officer or to any other person when and if required by law to do so. Any violation of this subsection (1)(b) shall be a class 1 civil infraction under chapter 7.80 RCW and shall be punished accordingly pursuant to chapter 7.80 RCW and the infraction rules for courts of limited jurisdiction.

    (2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.
    I don't feel I am in a position to be a test case on this one. It likely will need a test case to clarify exactly when you are required to present it. I admire those on here who are willing to be test cases.

    Cheers,
    Bill
    THE SECOND AMENDMENT: Washington didn't use his right to free speech to defeat the British, he shot them.
    ---------------------------------------------
    Government is not reason; it is not eloquent -- it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master."
    --George Washington,
    first U.S. president

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