UOC and practical self defense shooting

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As this is my first post here, allow me to introduce myself and give a short background.

I am a Navy vet, I did my four years as a Master at Arms which translates into Military Police. I carried a M9 pretty much every day for those four years and am well versed in the use of firearms, particularly pistols.

When I carried I always carried my weapon (as per DON policy) in condition one, that is one in thechamberwith a fully loadedmagazine. In order to shoot all I'd have to do is draw, flick the safety off and squeze the trigger.

Despite my LE background it is basically impossible for me to get a CCW here in San Diego (I'm not even going to waste my time and moneytrying) so I've turned to Unloaded Open Carry.


Taking an unloade firearm to ready to fire takes time, time you may not have in a self defense situation.


I intend to practice, practice, practice as a weapon in any state is better than no weapon at all, but what are your thoughts on (what I see as)this major flaw in the practicality of UOC?

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Yes UOC is a major setback, but your'e correct, better to have something than nothing. I can draw, load, and get one off in about 2-3 seconds. When seconds count this is too long.

Remember to mention you have ammo on your person when telling others about UOC. Most say "an unloaded gun? what's the point? what are you gonna do throw it at someone?"

This law will be overthrown in time as it is asinine and based in racism by the "state" of "California".

Some people think that California's PC 12031 (and PC 171.c) also referred to as the Mulford law or the "Black Panther Bill" was enacted because Black Panthers stormed the state capital. Not true, they marched on the state capital in response to the law being proposed.

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I would suggest carryingin aSerpa with the slide locked backand a fast drawing mag pouch on the other side. With practice, you could probably have your gun loaded and firing in under a second and a half if you have it available in this manner. Maybe even under a second. It would be a good thing to practice with snap caps.

As a special bounus if you carry with the slide locked back, you won't need to be disarmed for one of those unconstitutional12031 checks.

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Michigander wrote:

I would suggest carryingin aSerpa with the slide locked backand a fast drawing mag pouch on the other side. With practice, you could probably have your gun loaded and firing in under a second and a half if you have it available in this manner. Maybe even under a second. It would be a good thing to practice with snap caps.

As a special bounus if you carry with the slide locked back, you won't need to be disarmed for one of those unconstitutional12031 checks.

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There is also a downside to carrying with the slide locked back. The deterrent factor is gone. Evryone can see that your gun is indeed unloaded. I would prefer a quick 12031(e) check involving a quick inspection by just a cop over a free show to everyone around saying "Hey Look, an unloaded gun!"

There is also the comfort factor. The slide sticks way the heck up and tends to dig into the side of the person with movement.

The key is "Practice, Practice, Practice!" Practice the way you would do it in a real world situation. Also, practice loading your weapon on the run. If some punk does come at you with a knife, you will be prepared to load as you retreat to a defensible position.

The other thing to keep in mind, with proper situational awareness you should not get into a "quick draw" situation, so you most likely would have the opportunity to load your weapon.

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Another drawback to the slide being locked back... If you're carrying an M9 (Beretta 92FS), the rear of that slide is sharp enough to do surgery on your body parts if you hit it hard enough.

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MSC 45ACP wrote:

Another drawback to the slide being locked back...  If you're carrying an M9 (Beretta 92FS), the rear of that slide is sharp enough to do surgery on your body parts if you hit it hard enough. 

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I can attest to that! Sliced my hand open during training with the M9, needed two of those butterfly stitches Went through so much ammo that day I had open blisters on my trigger finger.

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I could type many lines here on the amount of blood and skin I've seen surgically removed by M9's over the years. The most amazing story I'll share was taking an Admiral to the range. He was a BIG GUY. He was a football player during his Academy days. I think he could have taken the place of TWO front linemen. His hands were so big the "meaty part" of his hands between thumbs and forefingers extended above the tang of the lower reciever on the M9. When he shot using a "normal" grip, the slide left railroad tracks on the back of his strong hand. He didn't even notice (or didn't care) until after he had finished his first string of slow fire (12 rounds, 12 minutes).

I came over to see how he was doing and he asked for a Band Aid. I asked if he was ok, then he showed me his bloody hand. The slide was also well-lubricated by his blood as were his shooting glasses and his uniform shirt. I cleaned and dressed his wound and wiped the excess blood from the pistol and then went to work on figuring out a way for him to hold the pistol without donating any more blood.

We came up with the same trick I learned teaching folks to shoot the .45... make the "V" with your hand and tuck the webbed part of the hand under the tang and roll the rest of the hand down, then wrap the fingers around the receiver. He still shot a 147 out of a possible 150...

I'll never forget that Admiral. He was a heck of a nice guy. He retired with 3 stars.

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Decoligny wrote:

There is also a downside to carrying with the slide locked back. The deterrent factor is gone. Evryone can see that your gun is indeed unloaded. I would prefer a quick 12031(e) check involving a quick inspection by just a cop over a free show to everyone around saying "Hey Look, an unloaded gun!"

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I've dealt with a lot of Kali's trash in Phoenix. In my experience, the very fact someone carries openly tends to get LA punks to show respect and even misplaced admiration. While I've only ever carried loaded in the mag and sometimes the chamber, I've never seen anything that would lead me to believe that potentially dangerous people would be unafraid of a locked back auto. And even if it was the case, you could say the same for any pistol with no magazine in it.

I was trying out drawing my Sig with the slide locked back. I can load it and fire it slightly faster that way that with the slide closed on an empty chamber with a full mag in place.

You gotta do what you feel is best, but if I was unfortunate enough to live there, I'd carry with the slide locked back because regardless of perception, I believe it would be the fastest way available to stop a threat, and that is the main reason to carry.

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I considered slide locked back, in fact I've considered many ways to carry. I even considered a "damn the law" attitude about CC. I really think I'll just do whatever's comfortable as far as UOCgoes. That to me is an empty mag in the well and a loaded mag or twoon the other side. Ijust have to pick up a box of cheap ammo and do some load and shoot drills, it's been a year or so and I'm rustyin that regard. I guess I won't really be able to defend myself until California changes it's stupid laws (or I move to a state who's legislators have actually read the constitution :banghead.

Thanks for the advice!