Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 31

Thread: NEW POSTER

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    SAN DIEGO, ,
    Posts
    66

    Post imported post

    Hello all. I am new to the forum and thought I would say hello. I am very interested in oc. I would like to meet more people in the San Diego area that are active in OC. I would also like to try and put together a monthly get together as well. Please feel free to contact me or leave me any feedback. Thank you, and of course Carry On!

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    642

    Post imported post

    edit!
    When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty.

  3. #3
    Regular Member coolusername2007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Temecula, California, USA
    Posts
    1,660

    Post imported post

    Welcome! Some of the key SD OC'ers have stood down for now.
    "Why should judicial precedent bind the nation if the Constitution itself does not?" -- Mark Levin

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    SAN DIEGO, ,
    Posts
    66

    Post imported post

    why is that? We all need to stand together to open support, not stand down! I am willing to help, and campaign as much as possible. I am also on a campaign quest with the new AB 357 petition.

  5. #5
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Lamma Island, HK
    Posts
    964

    Post imported post

    coolusername2007 wrote:
    Welcome! Some of the key SD OC'ers have stood down for now.
    Standing down is somewhat a misnomer. They are not stopping the forwarding of the open carry cause, they are just trying to find smarter ways of doing it without causing the negatives that come along with actually having a firearm.

    As I have mentioned elsewhere the idea of carrying inert training pistols in a holster is actually more helpful to our cause now. Here is why:

    • Not having an actual firearm means we can now go places and not run afoul of the law accidentally or inadvertently.
    • While using the training pistols and handing out literature we are doing so in a less confrontational way. - The goal is more important than the means I believe. Using training pistols is a softer first step in changing the opinion.
    • By helping a group like Calguns and compromising a little on what we do we can garner support from the other groups as "team players". This perception might make it easier to get them to support our cause as time and circumstances allow. If not, at least we were not wasting time and effort fighting the wrong enemy.
    • The idea of an inert gun is that we can use it as an anecdote. "We might as well have nothing because of the ridiculousness of the laws in California and the stereotype against lawful gun owners.
    There are more reasons, but I think these are some helpful points.

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    642

    Post imported post

    edit!
    When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty.

  7. #7
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    San Diego County, CA, California, USA
    Posts
    1,402

    Post imported post

    dirtykoala wrote:
    i thought carrying imitaion firearms was illegal?
    • 12550. As used in this article, the following definitions apply: (a) "BB device" is defined in subdivision (g) of Section 12001. (b) "Firearm" is defined in subdivision (b) of Section 12001. (c) "Imitation firearm" means any BB device, toy gun, replica of a firearm, or other device that is so substantially similar in coloration and overall appearance to an existing firearm as to lead a reasonable person to perceive that the device is a firearm.
    If blue and red guns are used (the same guns police use in training, and should recognize as non-imitations, but will lie about thinking they were real anyway), we may have a chance defending against malicious prosecution.

  8. #8
    Founder's Club Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Lamma Island, HK
    Posts
    964

    Post imported post

    N6ATF wrote:
    dirtykoala wrote:
    i thought carrying imitaion firearms was illegal?
    • 12550. As used in this article, the following definitions apply: (a) "BB device" is defined in subdivision (g) of Section 12001. (b) "Firearm" is defined in subdivision (b) of Section 12001. (c) "Imitation firearm" means any BB device, toy gun, replica of a firearm, or other device that is so substantially similar in coloration and overall appearance to an existing firearm as to lead a reasonable person to perceive that the device is a firearm.
    If blue and red guns are used (the same guns police use in training, and should recognize as non-imitations, but will lie about thinking they were real anyway), we may have a chance defending against malicious prosecution.
    I seriously doubt that any DA would try and charge the case, especially when we COULD have carried a real firearm.

  9. #9
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    San Diego County, CA, California, USA
    Posts
    1,402

    Post imported post

    Theseus wrote:
    N6ATF wrote:
    dirtykoala wrote:
    i thought carrying imitaion firearms was illegal?
    • 12550. As used in this article, the following definitions apply: (a) "BB device" is defined in subdivision (g) of Section 12001. (b) "Firearm" is defined in subdivision (b) of Section 12001. (c) "Imitation firearm" means any BB device, toy gun, replica of a firearm, or other device that is so substantially similar in coloration and overall appearance to an existing firearm as to lead a reasonable person to perceive that the device is a firearm.
    If blue and red guns are used (the same guns police use in training, and should recognize as non-imitations, but will lie about thinking they were real anyway), we may have a chance defending against malicious prosecution.
    I seriously doubt that any DA would try and charge the case, especially when we COULD have carried a real firearm.
    I swear I read on here about a case that was prosecuted admittedly for anti-activist reasons. I have little doubt a DA would not continue to violate the rights of law-abiding gun owners just because they left their guns at home that day. The tyrannical government has a counter-interest to allowing more people to exercise their RKBA, and that would necessarily include shutting down the 1st too.

  10. #10
    Regular Member coolusername2007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Temecula, California, USA
    Posts
    1,660

    Post imported post

    Theseus wrote:
    As I have mentioned elsewhere the idea of carrying inert training pistols in a holster is actually more helpful to our cause now.
    No way I wouldcarrya red or blue training pistol. Either UOC (which is neutered enough) or don't.I suppose you could make a point with an empty holster if you wanted to.
    "Why should judicial precedent bind the nation if the Constitution itself does not?" -- Mark Levin

  11. #11
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    San Diego County, CA, California, USA
    Posts
    1,402

    Post imported post

    coolusername2007 wrote:
    Theseus wrote:
    As I have mentioned elsewhere the idea of carrying inert training pistols in a holster is actually more helpful to our cause now.
    No way I wouldcarrya red or blue training pistol. Either UOC (which is neutered enough) or don't.I suppose you could make a point with an empty holster if you wanted to.
    What about paper-mache?

  12. #12
    Regular Member mjones's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    SoCal, , USA
    Posts
    979

    Post imported post

    N6ATF wrote:
    dirtykoala wrote:
    i thought carrying imitaion firearms was illegal?
    • 12550. As used in this article, the following definitions apply: (a) "BB device" is defined in subdivision (g) of Section 12001. (b) "Firearm" is defined in subdivision (b) of Section 12001. (c) "Imitation firearm" means any BB device, toy gun, replica of a firearm, or other device that is so substantially similar in coloration and overall appearance to an existing firearm as to lead a reasonable person to perceive that the device is a firearm.
    If blue and red guns are used (the same guns police use in training, and should recognize as non-imitations, but will lie about thinking they were real anyway), we may have a chance defending against malicious prosecution.

    12556. (a) No person may openly display or expose any imitation
    firearm, as defined in Section 12550, in a public place.
    (b) Violation of this section, except as provided in subdivision
    (c), is an infraction punishable by a fine of one hundred dollars
    ($100) for the first offense, and three hundred dollars ($300) for a
    second offense.
    (c) A third or subsequent violation of this section is punishable
    as a misdemeanor.
    (d) Subdivision (a) shall not apply to the following, when the
    imitation firearm is:
    ...
    (13) A device where the entire exterior surface of the device is
    white, bright red, bright orange, bright yellow, bright green, bright
    blue, bright pink, or bright purple, either singly or as the
    predominant color in combination with other colors in any pattern, or
    where the entire device is constructed of transparent or translucent
    materials which permits unmistakable observation of the device's
    complete contents. Merely having an orange tip as provided in federal
    law and regulations does not satisfy this requirement. The entire
    surface must be colored or transparent or translucent.



  13. #13
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    San Diego County, CA, California, USA
    Posts
    1,402

    Post imported post

    mjones wrote:
    N6ATF wrote:
    dirtykoala wrote:
    i thought carrying imitaion firearms was illegal?
    • 12550. As used in this article, the following definitions apply: (a) "BB device" is defined in subdivision (g) of Section 12001. (b) "Firearm" is defined in subdivision (b) of Section 12001. (c) "Imitation firearm" means any BB device, toy gun, replica of a firearm, or other device that is so substantially similar in coloration and overall appearance to an existing firearm as to lead a reasonable person to perceive that the device is a firearm.
    If blue and red guns are used (the same guns police use in training, and should recognize as non-imitations, but will lie about thinking they were real anyway), we may have a chance defending against malicious prosecution.
    12556. (a) No person may openly display or expose any imitation
    firearm, as defined in Section 12550, in a public place.
    (b) Violation of this section, except as provided in subdivision
    (c), is an infraction punishable by a fine of one hundred dollars
    ($100) for the first offense, and three hundred dollars ($300) for a
    second offense.
    (c) A third or subsequent violation of this section is punishable
    as a misdemeanor.
    (d) Subdivision (a) shall not apply to the following, when the
    imitation firearm is:
    ...
    (13) A device where the entire exterior surface of the device is
    white, bright red, bright orange, bright yellow, bright green, bright
    blue, bright pink, or bright purple, either singly or as the
    predominant color in combination with other colors in any pattern, or
    where the entire device is constructed of transparent or translucent
    materials which permits unmistakable observation of the device's
    complete contents. Merely having an orange tip as provided in federal
    law and regulations does not satisfy this requirement. The entire
    surface must be colored or transparent or translucent.

    Aha! Thanks.

  14. #14
    Regular Member coolusername2007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Temecula, California, USA
    Posts
    1,660

    Post imported post

    N6ATF wrote:
    coolusername2007 wrote:
    Theseus wrote:
    As I have mentioned elsewhere the idea of carrying inert training pistols in a holster is actually more helpful to our cause now.
    No way I wouldcarrya red or blue training pistol. Either UOC (which is neutered enough) or don't.I suppose you could make a point with an empty holster if you wanted to.
    What about paper-mache?
    LOL. Or origami pistols. LOL
    "Why should judicial precedent bind the nation if the Constitution itself does not?" -- Mark Levin

  15. #15
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Sons of Liberty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Riverside, California, USA
    Posts
    638

    Post imported post

    Welcome to the OC forum!

    My $0.02 on the training guns...not in favor of that. It diminishes the message and its impact. Plus you can't defend yourself with a training gun.
    Clinging to God & Guns: The Constitution Restoration Project

  16. #16
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    SAN DIEGO, ,
    Posts
    66

    Post imported post

    Carring a fake gun is ABSURD! I will carry me fire arm at all times within the law. I will stand up for what is right and what I believe. I will also continue to campaign for AB 357. But I will NOT be intimidated by our government to do what I know is legal. Anyone who thinks expressing you second amendment right within in the written law is a movement is wrong. It is your constitutional right! That is my humble yet firm opinion on fake guns!

  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Escondido, California, USA
    Posts
    1,140

    Post imported post

    There are more ways than one to skin a cat. We are just looking at different ways to skin the feline without causing more problems.

  18. #18
    Regular Member coolusername2007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Temecula, California, USA
    Posts
    1,660

    Post imported post

    I see the value in setting up education and PR events where nobody is UOC'ing.That's fine and could be a very useful tool for educating in "hot zones". But I see no value in playing with toys, I assure you we'll just be laughed at and I won't do it.
    "Why should judicial precedent bind the nation if the Constitution itself does not?" -- Mark Levin

  19. #19
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Escondido, California, USA
    Posts
    1,140

    Post imported post

    coolusername2007 wrote:
    I see the value in setting up education and PR events where nobody is UOC'ing.**That's fine and could be a very useful tool for educating in "hot zones".* But I see no value in playing with toys, I assure you we'll just be laughed at and I won't do it.
    You do realize rifles are 626.9 exempt, right?

  20. #20
    Regular Member coolusername2007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Temecula, California, USA
    Posts
    1,660

    Post imported post

    pullnshoot25 wrote:
    coolusername2007 wrote:
    I see the value in setting up education and PR events where nobody is UOC'ing.That's fine and could be a very useful tool for educating in "hot zones". But I see no value in playing with toys, I assure you we'll just be laughed at and I won't do it.
    You do realize rifles are 626.9 exempt, right?
    Yes I do. Good point, obviously I'm thinking handguns. I've got no problems setting up and attending UOC events where everyone is carrying rifles. Just not going to carry toy rifles either.
    "Why should judicial precedent bind the nation if the Constitution itself does not?" -- Mark Levin

  21. #21
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Lemon Grove, Ca.
    Posts
    137

    Post imported post

    pullnshoot25 wrote:
    There are more ways than one to skin a cat. We are just looking at different ways to skin the feline without causing more problems.
    Agreeded but it stilll defeats the purpose of OC to carry a fake firearm. We arm lawabiding firearm owners in the state of california and we are breaking no laws so we should not have to compromise for the law when the law does not compromise for us
    "Sooner or later we all must die. Warriors choose to do so on their feet, standing between their enemies and those they hold dear. With a weapon in their hands. Cowards choose to do so on their bellies. Unarmed."
    - Dave Gell (inspired by author David Weber)

    "The tragic history of civilian disarmament cries a warning against any systematic attempts to render innocent citizens ill-equipped to defend themselves from tyrant terrorists, despots or oppressive majorities,"
    - Daniel Schmutter

  22. #22
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Stanislaus County, California, USA
    Posts
    2,586

    Post imported post

    Chrisc411 wrote:
    ...it stilll defeats the purpose of OC to carry a fake firearm.
    Perhaps it defeats your purposes for OC. Try to realize we're a lot of different people with a lot of different motives and ideas.

    If creating awareness was my only goal, I think a training firearm would be a FAR better choice than a real firearm.
    Participant in the Free State Project - "Liberty in Our Lifetime" - www.freestateproject.org
    Supporter of the CalGuns Foundation - http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/
    Supporter of the Madison Society - www.madison-society.org


    Don't Tread On Me.

  23. #23
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Harrah, Oklahoma
    Posts
    769

    Post imported post

    coolusername2007 wrote:
    Theseus wrote:
    As I have mentioned elsewhere the idea of carrying inert training pistols in a holster is actually more helpful to our cause now.
    No way I wouldcarrya red or blue training pistol. Either UOC (which is neutered enough) or don't.I suppose you could make a point with an empty holster if you wanted to.
    I carried empty holsters to the Sheriffs debate in El Cajon. I got attention from other people there. As it turns out i didn't see a single LEO besides sheriff Gore. In which case i should have carried to defend myself. But I'm with you on the fake guns. IMO it makes a mockery of open carry. If i cant carry i wont go there.

    Michael
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...
    Stolen from ConditionThree because it can't be stressed enough.

  24. #24
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    San Diego County, CA, California, USA
    Posts
    1,402

    Post imported post

    chewy352 wrote:
    coolusername2007 wrote:
    Theseus wrote:
    As I have mentioned elsewhere the idea of carrying inert training pistols in a holster is actually more helpful to our cause now.
    No way I wouldcarrya red or blue training pistol. Either UOC (which is neutered enough) or don't.I suppose you could make a point with an empty holster if you wanted to.
    I carried empty holsters to the Sheriffs debate in El Cajon. I got attention from other people there. As it turns out i didn't see a single LEO besides sheriff Gore. In which case i should have carried to defend myself. But I'm with you on the fake guns. IMO it makes a mockery of open carry. If i cant carry i wont go there.

    Michael
    Gore has probably taken a page out of Hutchens' guidebook of sheriff vs law-abiding citizen spycraft... though since he actually was a fed for a while, he knew how to run a more discreet op.

  25. #25
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Escondido, California, USA
    Posts
    1,140

    Post imported post

    Chrisc411 wrote:
    pullnshoot25 wrote:
    There are more ways than one to skin a cat. We are just looking at different ways to skin the feline without causing more problems.
    Agreeded but it stilll defeats the purpose of OC to carry a fake firearm. We arm lawabiding firearm owners in the state of california and we are breaking no laws so we should not have to compromise for the law when the law does not compromise for us

    I don't remember saying anything about advocating the bearing of toy firearms. Like I said, there is more than one way to skin a cat.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •