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NEW POSTER

SDPISTOLGRIP

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2009
Messages
66
Location
SAN DIEGO, ,
imported post

Hello all. I am new to the forum and thought I would say hello. I am very interested in oc. I would like to meet more people in the San Diego area that are active in OC. I would also like to try and put together a monthly get together as well. Please feel free to contact me or leave me any feedback. Thank you, and of course Carry On!
 

SDPISTOLGRIP

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2009
Messages
66
Location
SAN DIEGO, ,
imported post

why is that? We all need to stand together to open support, not stand down! I am willing to help, and campaign as much as possible. I am also on a campaign quest with the new AB 357 petition.
 

Theseus

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2008
Messages
964
Location
Lamma Island, HK
imported post

coolusername2007 wrote:
Welcome! Some of the key SD OC'ers have stood down for now.
Standing down is somewhat a misnomer. They are not stopping the forwarding of the open carry cause, they are just trying to find smarter ways of doing it without causing the negatives that come along with actually having a firearm.

As I have mentioned elsewhere the idea of carrying inert training pistols in a holster is actually more helpful to our cause now. Here is why:

  • Not having an actual firearm means we can now go places and not run afoul of the law accidentally or inadvertently.
  • While using the training pistols and handing out literature we are doing so in a less confrontational way. - The goal is more important than the means I believe. Using training pistols is a softer first step in changing the opinion.
  • By helping a group like Calguns and compromising a little on what we do we can garner support from the other groups as "team players". This perception might make it easier to get them to support our cause as time and circumstances allow. If not, at least we were not wasting time and effort fighting the wrong enemy.
  • The idea of an inert gun is that we can use it as an anecdote. "We might as well have nothing because of the ridiculousness of the laws in California and the stereotype against lawful gun owners.
There are more reasons, but I think these are some helpful points.
 

N6ATF

Banned
Joined
Jul 22, 2009
Messages
1,401
Location
San Diego County, CA, California, USA
imported post

dirtykoala wrote:
i thought carrying imitaion firearms was illegal?
  • 12550. As used in this article, the following definitions apply: (a) "BB device" is defined in subdivision (g) of Section 12001. (b) "Firearm" is defined in subdivision (b) of Section 12001. (c) "Imitation firearm" means any BB device, toy gun, replica of a firearm, or other device that is so substantially similar in coloration and overall appearance to an existing firearm as to lead a reasonable person to perceive that the device is a firearm.
If blue and red guns are used (the same guns police use in training, and should recognize as non-imitations, but will lie about thinking they were real anyway), we may have a chance defending against malicious prosecution.
 

Theseus

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2008
Messages
964
Location
Lamma Island, HK
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N6ATF wrote:
dirtykoala wrote:
i thought carrying imitaion firearms was illegal?
  • 12550. As used in this article, the following definitions apply: (a) "BB device" is defined in subdivision (g) of Section 12001. (b) "Firearm" is defined in subdivision (b) of Section 12001. (c) "Imitation firearm" means any BB device, toy gun, replica of a firearm, or other device that is so substantially similar in coloration and overall appearance to an existing firearm as to lead a reasonable person to perceive that the device is a firearm.
If blue and red guns are used (the same guns police use in training, and should recognize as non-imitations, but will lie about thinking they were real anyway), we may have a chance defending against malicious prosecution.
I seriously doubt that any DA would try and charge the case, especially when we COULD have carried a real firearm.
 

N6ATF

Banned
Joined
Jul 22, 2009
Messages
1,401
Location
San Diego County, CA, California, USA
imported post

Theseus wrote:
N6ATF wrote:
dirtykoala wrote:
i thought carrying imitaion firearms was illegal?
  • 12550. As used in this article, the following definitions apply: (a) "BB device" is defined in subdivision (g) of Section 12001. (b) "Firearm" is defined in subdivision (b) of Section 12001. (c) "Imitation firearm" means any BB device, toy gun, replica of a firearm, or other device that is so substantially similar in coloration and overall appearance to an existing firearm as to lead a reasonable person to perceive that the device is a firearm.
If blue and red guns are used (the same guns police use in training, and should recognize as non-imitations, but will lie about thinking they were real anyway), we may have a chance defending against malicious prosecution.
I seriously doubt that any DA would try and charge the case, especially when we COULD have carried a real firearm.
I swear I read on here about a case that was prosecuted admittedly for anti-activist reasons. I have little doubt a DA would not continue to violate the rights of law-abiding gun owners just because they left their guns at home that day. The tyrannical government has a counter-interest to allowing more people to exercise their RKBA, and that would necessarily include shutting down the 1st too.
 

coolusername2007

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2009
Messages
1,659
Location
Temecula, California, USA
imported post

Theseus wrote:
As I have mentioned elsewhere the idea of carrying inert training pistols in a holster is actually more helpful to our cause now.
No way I wouldcarrya red or blue training pistol. Either UOC (which is neutered enough) or don't.I suppose you could make a point with an empty holster if you wanted to.
 

N6ATF

Banned
Joined
Jul 22, 2009
Messages
1,401
Location
San Diego County, CA, California, USA
imported post

coolusername2007 wrote:
Theseus wrote:
As I have mentioned elsewhere the idea of carrying inert training pistols in a holster is actually more helpful to our cause now.
No way I wouldcarrya red or blue training pistol. Either UOC (which is neutered enough) or don't.I suppose you could make a point with an empty holster if you wanted to.
What about paper-mache?
 

mjones

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2008
Messages
976
Location
Prescott, AZ
imported post

N6ATF wrote:
dirtykoala wrote:
i thought carrying imitaion firearms was illegal?
  • 12550. As used in this article, the following definitions apply: (a) "BB device" is defined in subdivision (g) of Section 12001. (b) "Firearm" is defined in subdivision (b) of Section 12001. (c) "Imitation firearm" means any BB device, toy gun, replica of a firearm, or other device that is so substantially similar in coloration and overall appearance to an existing firearm as to lead a reasonable person to perceive that the device is a firearm.
If blue and red guns are used (the same guns police use in training, and should recognize as non-imitations, but will lie about thinking they were real anyway), we may have a chance defending against malicious prosecution.


12556. (a) No person may openly display or expose any imitation
firearm, as defined in Section 12550, in a public place.
(b) Violation of this section, except as provided in subdivision
(c), is an infraction punishable by a fine of one hundred dollars
($100) for the first offense, and three hundred dollars ($300) for a
second offense.
(c) A third or subsequent violation of this section is punishable
as a misdemeanor.
(d) Subdivision (a) shall not apply to the following, when the
imitation firearm is:
...
(13) A device where the entire exterior surface of the device is
white, bright red, bright orange, bright yellow, bright green, bright
blue, bright pink, or bright purple, either singly or as the
predominant color in combination with other colors in any pattern, or
where the entire device is constructed of transparent or translucent
materials which permits unmistakable observation of the device's
complete contents. Merely having an orange tip as provided in federal
law and regulations does not satisfy this requirement. The entire
surface must be colored or transparent or translucent.
 

N6ATF

Banned
Joined
Jul 22, 2009
Messages
1,401
Location
San Diego County, CA, California, USA
imported post

mjones wrote:
N6ATF wrote:
dirtykoala wrote:
i thought carrying imitaion firearms was illegal?
  • 12550. As used in this article, the following definitions apply: (a) "BB device" is defined in subdivision (g) of Section 12001. (b) "Firearm" is defined in subdivision (b) of Section 12001. (c) "Imitation firearm" means any BB device, toy gun, replica of a firearm, or other device that is so substantially similar in coloration and overall appearance to an existing firearm as to lead a reasonable person to perceive that the device is a firearm.
If blue and red guns are used (the same guns police use in training, and should recognize as non-imitations, but will lie about thinking they were real anyway), we may have a chance defending against malicious prosecution.

12556. (a) No person may openly display or expose any imitation
firearm, as defined in Section 12550, in a public place.
(b) Violation of this section, except as provided in subdivision
(c), is an infraction punishable by a fine of one hundred dollars
($100) for the first offense, and three hundred dollars ($300) for a
second offense.
(c) A third or subsequent violation of this section is punishable
as a misdemeanor.
(d) Subdivision (a) shall not apply to the following, when the
imitation firearm is:
...
(13) A device where the entire exterior surface of the device is
white, bright red, bright orange, bright yellow, bright green, bright
blue, bright pink, or bright purple, either singly or as the
predominant color in combination with other colors in any pattern, or
where the entire device is constructed of transparent or translucent
materials which permits unmistakable observation of the device's
complete contents. Merely having an orange tip as provided in federal
law and regulations does not satisfy this requirement. The entire
surface must be colored or transparent or translucent.
Aha! Thanks.
 

coolusername2007

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2009
Messages
1,659
Location
Temecula, California, USA
imported post

N6ATF wrote:
coolusername2007 wrote:
Theseus wrote:
As I have mentioned elsewhere the idea of carrying inert training pistols in a holster is actually more helpful to our cause now.
No way I wouldcarrya red or blue training pistol. Either UOC (which is neutered enough) or don't.I suppose you could make a point with an empty holster if you wanted to.
What about paper-mache?
LOL. Or origami pistols. LOL
 

Sons of Liberty

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Mar 7, 2009
Messages
638
Location
Riverside, California, USA
imported post

Welcome to the OC forum!

My $0.02 on the training guns...not in favor of that. It diminishes the message and its impact. Plus you can't defend yourself with a training gun.
 

SDPISTOLGRIP

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2009
Messages
66
Location
SAN DIEGO, ,
imported post

Carring a fake gun is ABSURD! I will carry me fire arm at all times within the law. I will stand up for what is right and what I believe. I will also continue to campaign for AB 357. But I will NOT be intimidated by our government to do what I know is legal. Anyone who thinks expressing you second amendment right within in the written law is a movement is wrong. It is your constitutional right! That is my humble yet firm opinion on fake guns!
 

coolusername2007

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2009
Messages
1,659
Location
Temecula, California, USA
imported post

I see the value in setting up education and PR events where nobody is UOC'ing.That's fine and could be a very useful tool for educating in "hot zones". But I see no value in playing with toys, I assure you we'll just be laughed at and I won't do it.
 

pullnshoot25

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2008
Messages
1,139
Location
Escondido, California, USA
imported post

coolusername2007 wrote:
I see the value in setting up education and PR events where nobody is UOC'ing.  That's fine and could be a very useful tool for educating in "hot zones".  But I see no value in playing with toys, I assure you we'll just be laughed at and I won't do it.

You do realize rifles are 626.9 exempt, right?
 

coolusername2007

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2009
Messages
1,659
Location
Temecula, California, USA
imported post

pullnshoot25 wrote:
coolusername2007 wrote:
I see the value in setting up education and PR events where nobody is UOC'ing.That's fine and could be a very useful tool for educating in "hot zones". But I see no value in playing with toys, I assure you we'll just be laughed at and I won't do it.

You do realize rifles are 626.9 exempt, right?
Yes I do. Good point, obviously I'm thinking handguns. I've got no problems setting up and attending UOC events where everyone is carrying rifles. Just not going to carry toy rifles either.
 
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