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Thread: Traveling through campus

  1. #1
    Regular Member CRF250rider1000's Avatar
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    I AM a student at ODU. Please read the firearms policy for ODU and let me know what your interpretation is. I would just be carrying in my car going through campus on a public street. I don't think that would be considered campus correct? I'm not parking my car on campus either so I think that it would be ok for me to transport it on a public street as long as I don't go on campus. Campus is defined in the policy. Here is also a map.

    http://www.odu.edu/ao/facultyhandboo...e=ch06s18.html


    I live on the right end of the map.

    I realize that no one is a lawyer and advice will not be taken as such. This is all purely opinions so that I can get a better understanding of what I'm looking at here.

  2. #2
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    You don't seem to fit any of the categories they list. I'd say if you wanted to walk around your neighborhood there is nothing they could do about it.

    Remember, I am not an attorney, and I am not your attorney.

    stay safe.

    skidmark
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    CRF250rider1000 wrote:
    Please read the firearms policy for ODU and let me know what your interpretation is. I would just be carrying in my car going through campus on a public street. I don't think that would be considered campus correct? I'm not parking my car on campus either so I think that it would be ok for me to transport it on a public street as long as I don't go on campus. Campus is defined in the policy. Here is also a map.

    http://www.odu.edu/ao/facultyhandboo...e=ch06s18.html
    Well...

    Staying on the streets means you are on public property. ODU doesn't own the streets. I would think this also applies to the public access portions as well such as any sidewalks made for use along the streets.

    The ket wording that neuters their policy...

    'This policy regulates use of privately owned firearms, and prohibits firearms, related devices and weapons on campus to the extent permitted by law.'

    What does VA Code state with regards to ODU? Last I had read through there (not in the entirety mind you), nothing was mentioned about ODU. Does ODU receive public funding via the Commonwealth? If so, there are strings to it. Such as respecting the laws that bind the State.

    I've seen others state it's perfectly fine for ODU to restrict firearms for employees (teachers & staff) as well as students. I'd have to question that to some extent as if they are receiving money from John Q. Public via the Commonwealth, they are required to follow certain rules (like not infringing on one's rights).

    Now if ODU is a private college / university that does NOT accept any funds from the state, then you are up to their tender mercies.

    Likewise, if they have a special exemption written into law allowing them to regulate firearms so, then they can get away with it.

    Bear in mind, the above is my $0.02 and you'll want to talk with other legal beagles who have a LOT more experience in this than I do. My primary concern with ODU is what they can do to me as a citizen who is NOT an instructor, staff, or student of theirs (answer: not much).

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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    If you are a student then you are bound to the student policy agreement. If you are not, they may only restrict you, by "policy" from entering into any school-owned building.

    ODU is a "public" university in the same sense that Va Tech, UVA and Longwood are. They receive some state funding for curriculum, development and operations, AFAIK.

    Unlike, say, Ferrum, William & Mary or Virginia Wesleyan, which are private.

    I have done a substantial amount of engineering and surveying work on and around the ODU campus and I can say without any reservation that the streets and [most] thoroughfares are public in that they are owned and maintained by the City of Norfolk.

    I hope that helps. This will be a continuing curiosity for me as I am being considered for an adjunct position for the Spring 2010 semester.
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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Their "paragraph 5" is rather amusing. Although the policy says Paragraph 6 applies to "everyone", I suspect they really mean this one:

    When firearms are carried on campus as permitted by this policy, they shall be carried with the muzzle angled up or down so as to avoid pointing the firearm at oneself, or any other person. All firearms, including those permitted to be concealed, having a safety shall have the safety in the “on” position. All semi-automatic firearms shall be carried with an empty breech or firing chamber. All revolvers shall be carried with an empty chamber to the immediate left or right of the barrel, depending on whether the cylinder turns clockwise or counterclockwise, and the chamber under the hammer shall be empty as well, unless the revolver is hammerless. All shotguns and other firearms that break to be loaded shall be carried broken and unloaded.
    Wow.

    TFred


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    TFred wrote:
    Their "paragraph 5" is rather amusing. Although the policy says Paragraph 6 applies to "everyone", I suspect they really mean this one:

    When firearms are carried on campus as permitted by this policy, they shall be carried with the muzzle angled up or down so as to avoid pointing the firearm at oneself, or any other person. All firearms, including those permitted to be concealed, having a safety shall have the safety in the “on” position. All semi-automatic firearms shall be carried with an empty breech or firing chamber. All revolvers shall be carried with an empty chamber to the immediate left or right of the barrel, depending on whether the cylinder turns clockwise or counterclockwise, and the chamber under the hammer shall be empty as well, unless the revolver is hammerless. All shotguns and other firearms that break to be loaded shall be carried broken and unloaded.
    Wow.

    TFred
    I would love to see them enforce that one against me.

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Carry as you please on Norfolk Public Streets. You are worth it. The ODU area really is not safe after dark.

    You now have a dilemma for campus carry. Do it and you will be expelled. Don't do it and you may be a victims that cannot even fight back.

    Maybe what we need is an evening open carry stroll around the ODU campus on the public streets.

    Hand out pamphlets and tell students about the disservice that their wrongheaded policies create.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    When firearms are carried on campus as permitted by this policy, they shall be carried with the muzzle angled up or down so as to avoid pointing the firearm at oneself, or any other person. All firearms, including those permitted to be concealed, having a safety shall have the safety in the “on” position. All semi-automatic firearms shall be carried with an empty breech or firing chamber. All revolvers shall be carried with an empty chamber to the immediate left or right of the barrel, depending on whether the cylinder turns clockwise or counterclockwise, and the chamber under the hammer shall be empty as well, unless the revolver is hammerless. All shotguns and other firearms that break to be loaded shall be carried broken and unloaded.
    Ideological issues aside... This text just reveals plain ignorance. Unless you are carrying a very, very old gun, there is no safety issue with carrying a loaded chamber under the hammer in a modern revolver.

    TFred


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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    TFred wrote:
    When firearms are carried on campus as permitted by this policy, they shall be carried with the muzzle angled up or down so as to avoid pointing the firearm at oneself, or any other person. All firearms, including those permitted to be concealed, having a safety shall have the safety in the “on” position. All semi-automatic firearms shall be carried with an empty breech or firing chamber. All revolvers shall be carried with an empty chamber to the immediate left or right of the barrel, depending on whether the cylinder turns clockwise or counterclockwise, and the chamber under the hammer shall be empty as well, unless the revolver is hammerless. All shotguns and other firearms that break to be loaded shall be carried broken and unloaded.
    Ideological issues aside... This text just reveals plain ignorance. Unless you are carrying a very, very old gun, there is no safety issue with carrying a loaded chamber under the hammer in a modern revolver.

    TFred
    Agreed....and imagine them wanting you to carry with 2 less rounds!
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    nova wrote:
    TFred wrote:
    Their "paragraph 5" is rather amusing. Although the policy says Paragraph 6 applies to "everyone", I suspect they really mean this one:

    When firearms are carried on campus as permitted by this policy, they shall be carried with the muzzle angled up or down so as to avoid pointing the firearm at oneself, or any other person. All firearms, including those permitted to be concealed, having a safety shall have the safety in the “on” position. All semi-automatic firearms shall be carried with an empty breech or firing chamber. All revolvers shall be carried with an empty chamber to the immediate left or right of the barrel, depending on whether the cylinder turns clockwise or counterclockwise, and the chamber under the hammer shall be empty as well, unless the revolver is hammerless. All shotguns and other firearms that break to be loaded shall be carried broken and unloaded.
    Wow.

    TFred
    I would love to see them enforce that one against me.
    Nope - preemption prevails IMO.

    Locked & loaded - condition 1

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  11. #11
    Lone Star Veteran DrMark's Avatar
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    nova wrote:
    TFred wrote:
    Their "paragraph 5" is rather amusing. Although the policy says Paragraph 6 applies to "everyone", I suspect they really mean this one:

    When firearms are carried on campus as permitted by this policy, they shall be carried with the muzzle angled up or down so as to avoid pointing the firearm at oneself, or any other person. All firearms, including those permitted to be concealed, having a safety shall have the safety in the “on” position. All semi-automatic firearms shall be carried with an empty breech or firing chamber. All revolvers shall be carried with an empty chamber to the immediate left or right of the barrel, depending on whether the cylinder turns clockwise or counterclockwise, and the chamber under the hammer shall be empty as well, unless the revolver is hammerless. All shotguns and other firearms that break to be loaded shall be carried broken and unloaded.
    Wow.

    TFred
    I would love to see them enforce that one against me.
    "Excuse me Sir!! Which way does your cylinder rotate?!?"



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    Regular Member MSC 45ACP's Avatar
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    Whomever wrote that silly thing for ODU really has NO CLUE about the operation of modern semi-auto pistols and revolvers. Most semi-autos have firing pin blocks or some sort of safety that prevents the firing pin from striking a round's primer and revolvers have a similar system that prevents their firing pins from hitting a primer without a deliberate pull of the trigger.

    Simplyfugginamazin... Why can't they ever get someone knowledgeable to write these things???
    "If I know that I am headed for a fight, I want something larger with more power, preferably crew-served.
    However, like most of us, as I go through my daily life, I carry something a bit more compact, with a lot less power."
    (unknown 'gun~writer')

    Remington 1911 R1 (Back to Basics)
    SERPA retention or concealed...

    "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ~Thomas Jefferson
    (Borrowed from "The Perfect Day" by LTC Dave Grossman)

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    I wouldn't open carry. (You said you wanted opinions and that is mine.) You might be right, but if you're a student a year or two from graduating do you want to be a student 2 or 4 years from graduating because you had to fight to be reinstated after a "misunderstanding" as to what constitutes public vs university property and therefore where student policy can be enforced?

    I'd conceal and not talk about it much.

    Also, FYI to wylde, W&M is completely public like the others you listed.

  14. #14
    Regular Member CRF250rider1000's Avatar
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    SaltH2OHokie wrote:
    I wouldn't open carry. (You said you wanted opinions and that is mine.) You might be right, but if you're a student a year or two from graduating do you want to be a student 2 or 4 years from graduating because you had to fight to be reinstated after a "misunderstanding" as to what constitutes public vs university property and therefore where student policy can be enforced?

    I'd conceal and not talk about it much.

    Also, FYI to wylde, W&M is completely public like the others you listed.
    I can't conceal till November 5th + 45 or so days. I am very careful if I OC to not go very close to campus. I usually just go around.

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    DrMark wrote:
    nova wrote:
    TFred wrote:
    Their "paragraph 5" is rather amusing. Although the policy says Paragraph 6 applies to "everyone", I suspect they really mean this one:

    When firearms are carried on campus as permitted by this policy, they shall be carried with the muzzle angled up or down so as to avoid pointing the firearm at oneself, or any other person. All firearms, including those permitted to be concealed, having a safety shall have the safety in the “on” position. All semi-automatic firearms shall be carried with an empty breech or firing chamber. All revolvers shall be carried with an empty chamber to the immediate left or right of the barrel, depending on whether the cylinder turns clockwise or counterclockwise, and the chamber under the hammer shall be empty as well, unless the revolver is hammerless. All shotguns and other firearms that break to be loaded shall be carried broken and unloaded.
    Wow.

    TFred
    I would love to see them enforce that one against me.
    "Excuse me Sir!! Which way does your cylinder rotate?!?"

    "here let me show you" is the wrong answer I suppose :what:

  16. #16
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    You might like to see what was said in another similar thread:

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum54/31177.html
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

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    wylde007 wrote:
    Unlike, say, Ferrum, William & Mary or Virginia Wesleyan, which are private.
    William and Mary is Public.

    Ric

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    Ric in Richmond wrote:
    wylde007 wrote:
    Unlike, say, Ferrum, William & Mary or Virginia Wesleyan, which are private.
    William and Mary is Public.

    Ric
    Citation? I have a friend that goes there.
    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

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    AbNo wrote:
    Ric in Richmond wrote:
    wylde007 wrote:
    Unlike, say, Ferrum, William & Mary or Virginia Wesleyan, which are private.
    William and Mary is Public.

    Ric
    Citation? I have a friend that goes there.
    http://www.wm.edu/about/?svr=web

    We’re highly selective, but also public, offering a world-class education without the sticker shock.

  20. #20
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    Just in case it changes.
    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

  21. #21
    Regular Member Virginiaplanter's Avatar
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    Don't worry, their website can't change:

    § 23-40. Property transferred to College of William and Mary and owned by State.
    All the real estate and personal property relating to the College of William and Mary in Virginia, in Williamsburg, or relating to the Richard Bland College in Petersburg now existing and standing in the name of the corporate body designated "The Colleges of William and Mary" and all real estate and personal property standing in the name of or heretofore exclusively used by the Virginia Institute of Marine Science shall be transferred to and be known and taken as standing in the name, and to be under the control of the corporate body designated "The College of William and Mary in Virginia." Such real estate and personal property shall be the property of the Commonwealth.
    (Code 1919, § 936; 1960, c. 180; 1962, cc. 69, 610; 1976, c. 21; 1979, c. 294.)



    § 23-44. Rights, powers and duties of board in general.
    The board of visitors shall be vested with all the rights and powers conferred by the provisions of this chapter and by the ancient royal charter of the College of William and Mary in Virginia, insofar as the same are not inconsistent with the provisions of this chapter and the general laws of the Commonwealth.

    The board shall control and expend the funds of the colleges and any appropriation hereafter provided, and shall make all needful rules and regulations concerning the colleges, and generally direct the affairs of the colleges.
    (Code 1919, §§ 935, 936; 1938, p. 444; 1944, p. 402; 1945, p. 52; 1960, c. 180.)


  22. #22
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    AbNo wrote:
    Ric in Richmond wrote:
    wylde007 wrote:
    Unlike, say, Ferrum, William & Mary or Virginia Wesleyan, which are private.
    William and Mary is Public.

    Ric
    Citation? I have a friend that goes there.
    You know, I really don't mean to raz AbNo toooo much, but come on.... the verification of whether a major college is public or private doesn't exactly call for Woodward and Bernstein...

    Now I know, and very much appreciate that it is well accepted here that posters should be able to provide references for things they post. But when Google can give you an answer inside of 30 seconds, the fact that you have to ask for a cite doesn't really help your image, if you know what I mean...

    :P

    TFred

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    TFred wrote:
    But when Google can give you an answer inside of 30 seconds, the fact that you have to ask for a cite doesn't really help your image, if you know what I mean...

    :P

    TFred
    Citation? I have a friend that uses Google.



    In seriousness, though, I've seen WAM listed as public and private, with nothing to back up either one.

    I just wanted to lay it to rest.
    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

  24. #24
    Regular Member TexasNative's Avatar
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    Lay it to rest, then:

    The College became a state-supported school in 1906...
    And:

    1906, March 5

    By act of the General Assembly, all College property was transferred to the Commonwealth of Virginia. This transfer was sponsored by the College with a view toward increasing its resources. On March 8, the faculty accepted the provisions of the act, and on the following day it was approved by the Board of Visitors. A new board was appointed by the governor and 'vested with all rights and powers conferred by the provisions of this act and by the Ancient Royal Charter of the College.
    ~ Boyd

  25. #25
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    and finally, the College of William and Mary is an Agency of the Commonwealth of Virginia:

    http://leg1.state.va.us/000/reg/TOC08115.HTM

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