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Thread: Greenfield Gun Laws

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    Greenfield to consider gun citations
    By Tom Kertscher of the Journal Sentinel
    Sept. 11, 2009 4:06 p.m. | Greenfield — The Common Council on Tuesday will consider an ordinance that would allow police to write tickets to people who violate state gun laws.

    Citations could be issued for, among other things, possession of firearms in public buildings, carrying a handgun where alcoholic beverages may be consumed and possession of a gun near schools.

    The council's Legislative Committee voted, 2-1, last month to recommend adopting the ordinance. Ald. Tom Pietrowski voted no.

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    Regular Member AaronS's Avatar
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    I knew Tom was on our side.

    Sounds like I have to take a trip back to Greenfield, again. Maybe this time a person who lives in the place will show up. Last time none from Greenfield even came. It was up to us "outsiders" to do all the talking...

    Do we have a date for this meeting yet?

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    Ok, is the police department running the greenfield city council or what??? good grief.

    Everything they are listing as a proposed ordinance is already illegal and can already be ticketed.

    Some power-grabber in Greenfield is just incensed with the notion that people have a constitutional right to bear arms and they just want to pass SOMETHING.

    Reminds me of the little pee wee in school that stands behind the big bully, repeats everything he says.

    STATE LAW: "can't possess in a public building"

    Greenfield "yeah... can't possess in a public building we write you a ticket"

    unreal.... When is the next election? throw the police department puppets out.

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    Regular Member AaronS's Avatar
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    Okay, so I am going back to Greenfield, I beg any or all of you to come and help put Greenfields gun worrys to rest once and for all. I can say that it will not be as good a time as a cook out, but I think it is much more important. I am a very poor public speaker. Please come help me out!

    As some of you might know, this is the second time that Greenfield has proposed a bill that is in direct violation of Statute 66.0409. We have to stop them, or this stuff will move to your back door a lot faster then you might think.

    This time (unless anyone can think why not) I would like to hand out this web site. If the board saw what we are about, I am thinking the fight might just die out... Fear of vote loss? Am I way off on this?

    Again, the last big meeting, the City of Greenfield had no pro 2A people in the room that were from Greenfield. Take a day off work if need be, this could be bad for us all. Find me a good burger place that does not serve beer, and I might stay a bit after for food.

    Well, Tuesday September 15 at 7:00PM.

    [size=5300 West Layton Avenue][/size][/b][size=][/size][/b]

    [size=Greenfield][/size][/b][size=, WI 53220][/size][/b]

    The place to be at 7 pm Tuesday the 15th!!!



    Why do we never find out about this stuff untill the last few days.

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    Founder's Club Member bnhcomputing's Avatar
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    AaronS wrote:
    Why do we never find out about this stuff untill the last few days.
    I've heard it referred to as the MUSHROOM AFFECT/EFFECT. The idea is tofeed the public sh%&t and keep us in the dark for as long as possible. Our electedofficials at all levels town, village, city, county, state, etc. get training (indoctrination) on how to control the public.

    The MUSHROOM AFFECT / EFFECT

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    Regular Member AaronS's Avatar
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    I just got this letter, and on a weekend. Sounds good. I guess Linda is on board.



    Good Morning Aaron,

    I have an email in to our Police dept as I have the same questions, we have a state laws with regards to the area's they are discussing. I did not place this on the agenda our Director of parks and rec did and our city atty.

    I removed my item after my last mtg when I was better informed by your group.

    I will keep you posted when I can figure this one out for myself! As I'm puzzled!

    Thanks,

    Alderwoman Linda J. Lubotsky
    City of Greenfield
    7325 W. Forest Home Ave.
    Greenfield, WI 53220
    Office: (414) 329-5201
    Home : (414) 282-5367
    Fax : (414) 543-6158


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    Campaign Veteran Flipper's Avatar
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    The more this kind of junkgets written in at the local level, the more pre-emption battles will have to take place in the future when state firearm laws are revised toremove or relax some of the current prohibitions.
    When in danger you can dial 911 and hope for the police to arrive a few minutes later armed with guns.
    Why do police carry guns?

    The Joyce Foundation funded firearm control empire:
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...lFundingR1.png

    "Everything that we see is a shadow cast by that which we do not see." - Martin Luther King Jr.

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    I'm not from greenfield, but will try to make it to the meeting. I have a battle to fight in Saukville (they ban posession of an assembled firearm) in the near future and would like to see how these meetings go.

    Geoff

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    Regular Member AaronS's Avatar
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    Geoff wrote:
    I'm not from greenfield, but will try to make it to the meeting. I have a battle to fight in Saukville (they ban posession of an assembled firearm) in the near future and would like to see how these meetings go.

    Geoff

    For the most part, it takes you an hour to drive, and you sit for an hour, and if the board lets us, we will each talk for about 5 min. The Greenfield board should let us all talk, they did the last time this came up. All 7 of us talked,nonefrom Greenfield.

    The problem I am seeing now is that the lawyer for the city, is a bum, and needs replacement ASAP. He will not take the time to learn any State laws, but he has made the gun issue come up three times now. I am thinking his best friend in the world, is a Greenfield cop, and not any Greenfield people. If he goes unchecked, he will cost the people of Greenfield a lot of needed money, again...

    So now we have Geoff, and he is also from out of town (as am I). Will any people from Greenfield not stand up and take control of your city? Do we "outsiders" have to do every thing for you? Do you people not want any rights? Do the members from Milwaukee not understand that what Greenfield does will come to our cityreal fast? Hey, public building sounds a lot like public street, maybe we should ban that, after all no people care...

    I see a lot of our forum members like to talk a lot about the needed changes in our laws, but I do not think most of us will even try to make any change, if it meant that you would have to get off your a$$ and make a stand. A lot of you have gone to gun "party's", but will any of you EARN the right you think should be yours? If you live far, I can understand, but we have members from this city, and none were at the last meeting! NONE!!!

    Now, Geoff has also brought up an impending new "must go to" meeting in Saukville. He will need our help again. Is this also to far for us to drive? Ya, I will be at that one too, but that is only two people so far (just like Greenfield I guess). Geoff and I will not be able to protect the rights of the full state of Wisconsin, with out YOU. We need YOUR help!!! We do not even have to pay any lawyer, just come and give your feelings on this issue. Does this not matter enough to be late with dinner for a night or two? Will this very real issue not get you all to start going to your local Government meetings? I have no job,very little cash, a wife that is starting to think I am nuts, and I was an a$$ hair away from going to Green Bay to help out with the (now dead) park ban law (150 miles for me). What was your reason for not supporting this? Hey Doug, did you go? I was told for a long time, that knowlage was power, but now I am older. I understand now, that knowlage only speeds up change, it is action thatbrings the change about in the first place. One, without the other, brings about nothing.


    Please remember people, this is YOUR boat, and there is a hole in the bottom of it. If you want to see that the hole is fixed, you will have to fix the hole! Talk on the Internet, will not plug any hole. If this is all you have to offer (cheap talk on a web site), then your boat will be at the bottom of the lake in no time.

    This is the kind of stuff that made America in the first place, I can only pray to God that we have not lost this idea... We the people, is you the people. The direction all this takes is your choice. You make this call...






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    +100

    I said the same thing in another thread.

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum57/30662.html

    And it is more than just about candidates.

    When I first joined this forum I was under the impression that if the members attended one of these city council meetings, that it would be in force.

    I pictured a strong organized group who's state researchers would show up and cite the laws that protect our rights.

    It is as though everyone is waiting for only certain individuals to take the lead.
    Unless certain individuals take the lead on something then no one wants to participate.

    Talk talk talk, there is a Hot wind Blowing through this forum. And that is all.

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    Regular Member AaronS's Avatar
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    Just got a mail from the City Mayor.



    "Aaron,

    We are not enacting "new" gun laws. We are creating an Ordinance to enforce the existing State Law. If the DA does not charge, we would be able to issue a municipal citation. You may or may not know that the Milwaukee County DA's Office often focuses on large crimes while letting the small ones fall by the wayside.

    I am not in favor of creating any local rule or law that expands any existing State law regarding gun control or regulation--and never have been."...


    Yea, sure Mr. Mayor.

    Greenfield just wants the cash from the finefor a crime that never was? I think I get it. City permission for armed robbery...

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    AaronS wrote:
    Just got a mail from the City Mayor.



    "Aaron,

    We are not enacting "new" gun laws. We are creating an Ordinance to enforce the existing State Law. If the DA does not charge, we would be able to issue a municipal citation. You may or may not know that the Milwaukee County DA's Office often focuses on large crimes while letting the small ones fall by the wayside.

    I am not in favor of creating any local rule or law that expands any existing State law regarding gun control or regulation--and never have been."...


    Yea, sure Mr. Mayor.

    Greenfield just wants the cash from the finefor a crime that never was? I think I get it. City permission for armed robbery...
    Aaron,
    Maybe you should inform them of what happened down in Jericho, Arkansas when the police were handing out citations hand over fist........The Fire chief was shot in the back by one of their very own officers, in the court room no less!

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090903/..._shot_in_court

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    As far as I know, I'm the only member here from Greenfield, and I'm at college 3 states away for the majority of the year. I sure hope you aren't talking about me when you mention people who throw parties but don't contribute to the effort of actually trying to change laws. If you are talking about me, I suggest you check out my youtube videos to see what I'm up to here in ND, as I surely walk just as much as I talk.

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    AaronS wrote:
    Yea, sure Mr. Mayor.

    Greenfield just wants the cash from the finefor a crime that never was? I think I get it. City permission for armed robbery...
    Did I miss something here?

    They are just copying the existing state laws on the municiple level to get the procedes. Nearly every municipality does this, with almost any state law they can.

    I don't see anything wierd here. They're not trying to pass anything more stringent right? I think I'd focus my energy elsewhere if what I think is the case.
    R[ƎVO˩]UTION

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    Regular Member AaronS's Avatar
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    Brass Magnet wrote:
    AaronS wrote:
    Yea, sure Mr. Mayor.

    Greenfield just wants the cash from the finefor a crime that never was? I think I get it. City permission for armed robbery...
    Did I miss something here?

    They are just copying the existing state laws on the municiple level to get the procedes. Nearly every municipality does this, with almost any state law they can.

    I don't see anything wierd here. They're not trying to pass anything more stringent right? I think I'd focus my energy elsewhere if what I think is the case.
    If you were to walk into a school zone with a sidearm, you would have both a state fine to pay, as well as a local fine? Two fines for the price of one? With out any doubt in my mind, this is not just a money thing. It is just a start of laws to come. This is the senond time Greenfield has wanted a new gun law. I bet it is not the last.

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    AaronS wrote:
    Brass Magnet wrote:
    AaronS wrote:
    Yea, sure Mr. Mayor.

    Greenfield just wants the cash from the finefor a crime that never was? I think I get it. City permission for armed robbery...
    Did I miss something here?

    They are just copying the existing state laws on the municiple level to get the procedes. Nearly every municipality does this, with almost any state law they can.

    I don't see anything wierd here. They're not trying to pass anything more stringent right? I think I'd focus my energy elsewhere if what I think is the case.
    If you were to walk into a school zone with a sidearm, you would have both a state fine to pay, as well as a local fine? Two fines for the price of one? With out any doubt in my mind, this is not just a money thing. It is just a start of laws to come. This is the senond time Greenfield has wanted a new gun law. I bet it is not the last.
    Double Jeopardy, They will surely make you pay the local fine.

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    Regular Member AaronS's Avatar
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    J.Gleason wrote:
    AaronS wrote:
    Brass Magnet wrote:
    AaronS wrote:
    Yea, sure Mr. Mayor.

    Greenfield just wants the cash from the finefor a crime that never was? I think I get it. City permission for armed robbery...
    Did I miss something here?

    They are just copying the existing state laws on the municiple level to get the procedes. Nearly every municipality does this, with almost any state law they can.

    I don't see anything wierd here. They're not trying to pass anything more stringent right? I think I'd focus my energy elsewhere if what I think is the case.
    If you were to walk into a school zone with a sidearm, you would have both a state fine to pay, as well as a local fine? Two fines for the price of one? With out any doubt in my mind, this is not just a money thing. It is just a start of laws to come. This is the senond time Greenfield has wanted a new gun law. I bet it is not the last.
    Double Jeopardy, They will surely make you pay the local fine.
    So under this, you are thinking that the State fines would not be requested form us? At this time, I guess this is my question. I just don't see the State not wanting the fine moneys. Will the two of them have to fight to see who gets to keep my cash? I don't understand this at all...

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    What I am saying is that if a City Police Officer issues you a Municipal citation and you pay the citation fine, then the state can not come along and give you a state fine for the same offense. That would be Double Jeopardy.

    Now if the Officer did not cite you but referred you to the DA for Charges, then the state could request a fine at the state level. Of course you could always possibly argue that in court down to a municipal level fine.

    Feel free to correct me if I am wrong on this.

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    Regular Member AaronS's Avatar
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    J.Gleason wrote:
    What I am saying is that if a City Police Officer issues you a Municipal citation and you pay the citation fine, then the state can not come along and give you a state fine for the same offense. That would be Double Jeopardy.

    Now if the Officer did not cite you but referred you to the DA for Charges, then the state could request a fine at the state level. Of course you could always possibly argue that in court down to a municipal level fine.

    Feel free to correct me if I am wrong on this.
    I guess I should find out Tuesday night. I'll let you know what I find out.

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    Regular Member AaronS's Avatar
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    Brass Magnet wrote:
    Did I miss something here?

    They are just copying the existing state laws on the municiple level to get the procedes. Nearly every municipality does this, with almost any state law they can.

    I don't see anything wierd here. They're not trying to pass anything more stringent right? I think I'd focus my energy elsewhere if what I think is the case.
    See I guess I just do not understand the idea on this. Would this take away the State law when in Greenfield? Why would city want to have a copy of what is on the books? What would the Greenfield version do that the State version does not? I guess IANAL, and I just have a hard time understanding the want or need to copy a law. You could be correct, and I might just not "get it", I don't know...

    Hey Doug, you got a grasp of this? Can ya put it into words I might understand please? Just talk real slow for me...

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    Town cop is probably not commissioned to enforce state law. - from Kalispell, MT

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    Regular Member ROOK_WI's Avatar
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    Meeting time is 7:00pm Tuesday the 15th.




    Tues., Sept. 15





    7:00 PM





    Common Council


    From attached PDF (bolded by me):

    9. Citizen Commentary




    27. City Attorney’s Report:




    a. Ordinance amending Section 3.12(11) of the Municipal Code relating to Police Department fees




    (Legislative 8/17/09)




    b. Ordinance amending Chapter 10 of the Municipal Code relating to offenses against State laws subject to forfeiture with regard to firearms (Legislative 8/17/09)




    ************************************************




    I will be there. I do not believe they have thought this through, and would like to politely discuss with them the error of their ways.





  23. #23
    Regular Member AaronS's Avatar
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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    Town cop is probably not commissioned to enforce state law. - from Kalispell, MT
    I wouldthink that all local cops would be able to do that, but I guess...

    If I get a better understanding of this all, I will try to ask them about that.

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    So, why then does each political subdivision have a law enforcement agency if the junior-est and the senior-est can each enforce the other's law?

    "We're from the World Police, ma'am, here to cite you for smoking in bed."

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    Folks - my bet is that this is about revenue & publicity - if the local police cite on a local ordinance they can keep the fine money in many or most states.

    Here is my suggestion - let's take this opportunity to explain our agenda to pair back the 1,000 ft. school zone gun ban and introducing the constitutional concept of "lawful purpose" into statutory law.

    So this idea would be to have the following position: That we do not oppose the cty effort to localize the enforcement of state criminal law, we believe the 1,000 ft.school zone to be constitutionally overbroad regulation as evidenced by multiple DA's recently refusing to charge folks with violating the zone.

    To conform the local school gun ban enforcement effort to what the constitutonal requires, we recommend that the Council re-structure the school zone gun ban to only make it unlawful to open carry a handgun within the 1,000 ft. zone around the school if carried for an "unlawful purpose." The ban at the school itself would continue as per state law with the state law exceptions intact.

    Make sense? We could get great publicity on this issue and gain signatures on the petition as well.

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