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  1. #1
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    Greetings,

    Some of you over on CG may recognize my screen name. Just decided to make an account here and read up on the gatherings in the SF Bay Area and associated goings-on.

    I'm not an OC'er at this time, though I probably will attend some events in the not-too-distant future. I want to see firsthand how the police handle themselves among different groups and get a feel for the OC movement on an interpersonal level.

    My feelings on OC are that in the short term, it's probably going to cause more problems than it solves. But, as with any civil or political right, the free and good faith exercise thereof almost always causes more problems in the short term before long term gain is realized. With that, I believe the long term gains will come, and that makes the short term hassles well worth the risks. Typical cost-benefit analysis, I suppose, and the benefits win out.

    -Ed

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    The more we open carry, the less people will think guns cause murders.

    Same for arabs walking around in turbans. After 9/11, most people saw a guy with a turban and freaked out, now its perfectly normal and we accept the ignorance we once all posessed on arabs wearing turbans, you know why? Because arabs continued to walk around in their turbans, and guess what, bombs werent going off!! If they decided to not wear them, then the American public would believe what they see in terrorist movies.

    Same goes for guns, the more we show to the American public.. "look, hey, I have a gun on my hip.. see? no one is dieing, little children arent running around crying, wild west shoot outs arent taking place, school shootouts arent taking place because of me... in fact, if some murderer walked up to us right now, we would all be safer because of this defensive tool on my hip"



    Case and point.




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    edit!
    When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty.

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    Don't mistake what I'm saying as an admonition to not OC or not exercise your rights. It is not that at all. That I don't currently OC is a personal choice (based on a number of factors - all non-political).

    Well I guess I should qualify the "I don't OC" statement, too. In California, I don't OC. When I cross the border into Nevada, I do LOC. And not just in the sticks - I mean in downtown Reno. The Safeway on McCarran is a common stop for me and I've never seen an eyebrow raised at 2am or 2pm. Obviously NV is still a very different place than California.

    I think you are right about the creation of certain social expectations. Fifty years ago it would raise eyebrows and great alarm to see a black person at a 'white' lunch counter. Today people of all races and backgrounds intermingle without a second thought, for the most part. I want to see sidearms on hips become the same way - not a second thought needed or given to why it is there, whether a 'crime' is in progress or if a 3rd party should be concerned enough to call 911. It should be just as usual to see an armed citizen out in public as it should be to see guns at a gun range.


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    Thanks, dirtykoala. Actually, I'm not going to be in town this weekend. Trying to get in as much fishing up in the mountains before the season closes and I'm relegated to tailwaters and flatlands (plus before deer season and upland game take over my free time!). However, I'll be on the lookout for future local events to attend.

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    edwardm wrote:
    Don't mistake what I'm saying as an admonition to not OC or not exercise your rights. It is not that at all. That I don't currently OC is a personal choice (based on a number of factors - all non-political).

    Well I guess I should qualify the "I don't OC" statement, too. In California, I don't OC. When I cross the border into Nevada, I do LOC. And not just in the sticks - I mean in downtown Reno. The Safeway on McCarran is a common stop for me and I've never seen an eyebrow raised at 2am or 2pm. Obviously NV is still a very different place than California.

    I think you are right about the creation of certain social expectations. Fifty years ago it would raise eyebrows and great alarm to see a black person at a 'white' lunch counter. Today people of all races and backgrounds intermingle without a second thought, for the most part. I want to see sidearms on hips become the same way - not a second thought needed or given to why it is there, whether a 'crime' is in progress or if a 3rd party should be concerned enough to call 911. It should be just as usual to see an armed citizen out in public as it should be to see guns at a gun range.
    I agree to an extent, to where if there was ever an incident with an open carry person where he went off on some rampage, it could seriously hurt gun movements everywhere. Though I doubt this would happen.

    It has been a few weeks since the black man carried at the Obama event. People here rejoiced over that, for if it were a white man we could have gotten some bad publicity, though it was a law abiding black man, obviously not racially motivated. Sure it scared some, but nothing happened. Just one step closer to people becoming comfortable or used to the sight of firearms, whether they like it or not.

    I may not like seeing a guy wearing a turban, but I can tell you now, I don't cringe like I used to in some wake of irrational fear that they could be carrying a bomb. I'm used to it. It's his right as an American, I may think its unstylish and ugly, but hey its his religion and I'm ok with that and I now know most people that follow the islamic faith here in America are not here to create a offensive jihad against another. They want peace, just as us open carry advocates are no matter what the movies may make our 2 groups look like.

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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter bigtoe416's Avatar
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    Just to set the record straight on turbans, most wearers of turbans are not Arabic.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbans

    Most are Sikhs, which is a religion mainly practiced in India and Pakistan.

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    When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty.

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    tebigtoe416 wrote:
    Just to set the record straight on turbans, most wearers of turbans are not Arabic.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbans

    Most are Sikhs, which is a religion mainly practiced in India and Pakistan.
    I dated the hottest sikh ever for about 2 months, it also happened to be at the same time I did a report on arabs in America for my college class -race and ethnicity in america. So yes you are correct but many arabs also wear turbans and thats how I was trying to get my point accross. If I said 'indians' some people here may of been like 'wtf is he talking about'. So yes back on topic and to my point please. More open carry= more awareness and comfort with the sight of guns.

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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Sons of Liberty's Avatar
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    Welcome, Ed, to the OC board!
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    Streetbikerr6 wrote:
    tebigtoe416 wrote:
    Just to set the record straight on turbans, most wearers of turbans are not Arabic.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbans

    Most are Sikhs, which is a religion mainly practiced in India and Pakistan.
    I dated the hottest sikh ever for about 2 months
    Worthless without pics. :quirky

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    I have never seen an Arab wearing a turban in this country, and I live in an area with quite a few Muslims. I have seen plenty of Muslims wearing a taqiyah (the boxy-looking skull cap) but never a turban. Not even a keffiyeh, which is the checkered scarf that Palestinians wear.

    All of the turbans I have seen were worn by Sikhs (called a dastar in their religion) who are neither Muslim nor Arab and would be quite offended at being called either. But a lot of Sikhs did face violence and hatred after 9/11 because of ignorance. One bearded, turbaned Sikh man was shot to death in front of the gas station he owned in Arizona because some dude thought he was an Arab Muslim. Another Sikh man was beaten nearly to death in his motel in Seattle.

    Next time you see a Sikh, fold your hands together and greet him with "Sat sri akal", the traditional Sikh greeting which is a shortened form of a phrase that means "He/She be blessed who says truth is God". They worship the same Creator that you do, and they are good people.
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    Lol people get over it! My friends dad wore a turban before he died, they were arab. You people are like trolls, this thread could have been about abortion and how its like hurting an innocent little roseand you people would have instantly started talking about how daisys are prettier than roses and cheaper too and blah blah blah lol. Damn stop the sidetrack trollness.

    Now if you would like to speak about how OC does or does not spread a sense of ease of the sight of guns in society, please go on ahead.

  14. #14
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    I really should ask my brother-in-law about this. He's a CSU Sacramento PD officer, but relatively new (I think he's going on his 2nd year on the force now). I should make a bet with the wife -- $10 says he won't know beans about UOC/12031 vs 12025 vs 12027 vs 12026 et al. But I'd be curious to know his opinion anyway. My other LEO friends categorically have no issue with UOC (or permitted LCC for that matter), but tend to agree that it makes you a target of the bad guy. I personally can't follow that leap in logic, as I'm figuring most BG's are going to see a sidearm and give grave second thought to their intentions, assuming they're not strung out, high and incapable of critical thought (which is always possible.)

    At least I'm heading to Nevada for a few days in early October where this is all a non-issue. Attach holster, insert magazine, insert firearm, proceed. Wish it was that simple in CA.

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    Well I can imagine if you were in a gang neighborhood, a white boy like me walking around strapped might cause a stir, but hey it's my right and my risk. Although the court could argue I was going down their looking for trouble because when I went to Folsom Prison as part of my probation, I met a man who was charged with murder because he went to the ghetto with a gun, and when he shot someone in self defense the court ruled he was going to a dangerous part of town at night for no other reason then to start trouble. Crazy world! Yes i love Nevada, gun loaded on my dash driving by people, no worries in the world

  16. #16
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    Probation required a visit to Folsom (old or new)? Sounds like something a juvenile court judge would do.

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    Streetbikerr6 wrote:
    Yes i love Nevada, gun loaded on my dash driving by people, no worries in the world
    Check the NV forum; I'm pretty sure you can conceal in your car, just not on your person. My last trip to NV, as soon as I crossed the state line I put one in the pipe, inserted a full mag, then put it in my center console.

    (My apologies; I'm too lazy to go back and find the citation for NV law.)
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    edwardm wrote:
    At least I'm heading to Nevada for a few days in early October where this is all a non-issue. Attach holster, insert magazine, insert firearm, proceed. Wish it was that simple in CA.
    Don't forget to load the magazine if you're used to carrying an empty one to fill the magwell.



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    CA_Libertarian wrote:
    Streetbikerr6 wrote:
    Yes i love Nevada, gun loaded on my dash driving by people, no worries in the world
    Check the NV forum; I'm pretty sure you can conceal in your car, just not on your person. My last trip to NV, as soon as I crossed the state line I put one in the pipe, inserted a full mag, then put it in my center console.

    (My apologies; I'm too lazy to go back and find the citation for NV law.)

    Only place I saw it was in the NV AG's opinion letter, not in the NRS. The distinction is "on the person". In your glovebox/center console it's not "on the person."

  20. #20
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    CA_Libertarian wrote:
    Streetbikerr6 wrote:
    Yes i love Nevada, gun loaded on my dash driving by people, no worries in the world
    Check the NV forum; I'm pretty sure you can conceal in your car, just not on your person. My last trip to NV, as soon as I crossed the state line I put one in the pipe, inserted a full mag, then put it in my center console.

    (My apologies; I'm too lazy to go back and find the citation for NV law.)
    Oh I know, but I'd much rather exercise my right to have it loaded in plain view *not on my person*

  21. #21
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    Streetbikerr6 wrote:
    Oh I know, but I'd much rather exercise my right to have it loaded in plain view *not on my person*
    There's that too. My last trip to Reno, the only time the gun was concealed was while in the car... and mostly just because I could.
    :celebrate

    I was only there for about 24 hours, and probably spent 10 hours of that time open carrying in about 7 different casinos. (I opted not to take to the club that night; figured on having a few drinks with the boys.)

    It's a great experience going to places like NV and AZ where open carry is so much more accepted. (Though in Reno there's so many CA tourists you still get looks, and AZ some of the 'snow birds' get uppity at the natives packin' heat.)

    ...Methinks it's high time for a road trip... Maybe a visit to my home town of Apache Junction, AZ via Reno, NV.
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