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Thread: Can you open carry in TN w/o permit if handgun is unloaded and no ammo is within reach?

  1. #1
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    Just asking because I was trying to understand. I have a HCP from TN. Can I carry an unloadedhandgun on a public street w/o my permit? Can someone w/o a permit carry an unloaded handgun on a public street w/o a permit?




    TCA 39-17-1307. Unlawful carrying or possession of a weapon. —



    (a) (1) A person commits an offense who carries with the intent to go armed a firearm, a knife with a blade length exceeding four inches (4²), or a club.








    TCA 39-17-1308 Defenses to unlawful possesion or carrying of a weapon.-

    (a) It is a defense to the application of
    39-17-1307 if the possession or carrying was:


    (1) Of an unloaded rifle, shotgun or handgun not concealed on or about the person and the ammunition for the weapon was not in the immediate vicinity of the person or weapon;



    If I do carry and it is allowable under the TCA how doe sthat effect if at all any city ordinance?

    For example Brentwood;

    ARTICLE VII. OFFENSES AGAINST PUBLIC SAFETY*

    Sec. 42-161. Weapons and firearms generally.

    (a)It shall be unlawful for any person to carry in any manner whatever, with the intent to go armed, any razor, dirk knife, blackjack, brass knucks, pistol, revolver or any other dangerous weapon or instrument.


    Or Franklin;

    I couldn't find anything.

    Or Nashville;

    11.36.110 Carrying certain weapons prohibited--Exceptions.

    A.It is unlawful for any person within the urban services district, to carry, publicly or privately, any dirk, razor concealed about his person, sword cane, loaded cane, slung-shot or brass knucks, Spanish stiletto, belt or pocket pistol, revolver or any kind of pistol, except the army or navy pistol usually used in warfare, which shall be carried openly.

    B.It shall be the duty of every police officer who sees any person with or knows of any person carrying the weapons named in this section to immediately arrest every such person.

    But, their Charter only says concealed weapons...

    ARTICLE 2. POWERS

    Sec. 2.01. Specific powers.

    The metropolitan government of Nashville and Davidson County shall have power:

    10.To provide for the prevention and punishment of vice, obscenity, immorality, vagrancy, drunkenness, riots, disturbances, disorderly houses, bawdy houses, gambling and gambling houses, lewd exhibitions, disorderly conduct, the carrying of concealed weapons, and breaches of the peace.








  2. #2
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    Why would you want to open carry an empty gun?
    Quote Originally Posted by Open Carry.org Member View Post
    I really disgree with this one! That means that we can have any yahoo running around with a gun with out the proper training. This really scares the hell out of me. Just my two-cents!
    Quote Originally Posted by KansasMustang View Post
    Joe Schmedlap out there with a loaded weapon thinking he's going to deter crime and he's not even trained to fire his weapon safely just kinda makes my hair on the back of my neck stand up.

  3. #3
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    Yes, you could carry an unloaded weapon withouta permit.

    But a LEO could stop you to make sure it is unloaded.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

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    Since it is only a defense do you think you'd needto have ID?

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    Maybe what I do not understand is when municipal code is preempted by State law. For example, I know that TCA 39-17-1314(a) was rewritten, but I'm pretty sure it says that if a municipality had an ordinance prior to 1986 they can regulate transfer, ownership, transportation of firearms.

    I know the ordinance in Nashville is a lot older than 1986.

    I know that the Brentwood ordinance is from around 1978.

    So, does that mean no carrying even with a permit? Or, am I missing something?



    What really gets me is the Tennesse AG opinion 04-020, which states,





    But, then you have the Metro legal dept in their opinion 2009-03 on July 22, 2009 which states, "Based upon this exception to the State's preemption and the ordinance adopted in 1966, it is my opinion that the Metropolitan's Government's ordinance will still prohibit the carrying or discharge of a firearm of any descriptionin Metropolitan parks notwithstanding the State law. No new ordinance or resolution is necessary to prohibit guns in parks."



    Then you have Tennessee AG opinions 09-118 and 95-118 which say State Government may regulate. Still they don't explain the 1986 exemption...







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    I don't think you'd have to have ID. But that may cause a whole nother situation. Even though TN does not have any stop and identify law, I get the feeling LEOs don't like people not having ID.

    Yes any city ordinance in force prior to April 8, 1986 is not affected by 39-17-1314 (state preemption law) But I'm not familiar with the Nashville or Brentwood ordinances. Did they have a general prohibition against the carry of a firearm?
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

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    I edited some of the above posts with links and quotes for theBrentwood and Nashville ordinances.

    I also posted what I think are contradictary opinions form The TN AG (04-020)and Metro Legal (2009-03) regarding preemption.

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    catass wrote:
    Why would you want to open carry an empty gun?
    One reason a person may want to carry an unloaded weapon is that they cannot get a carry permit. Unlike Kentucky, inorder to carry a loaded handgun, you must have a permit, period. No one under 21 can get a permit in Tennessee.



    Also, just look at what is going on in California.

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    Well why not just get a blue gun and paint it black. I would be as useful as an empty pistol. Plus you would not need any permit for it.





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    WCrawford wrote:
    One reason a person may want to carry an unloaded weapon is that they cannot get a carry permit.
    A gun isn't a magical talisman that wards off evil. There are many other things that one can carry that would be a more useful self-defense tool than an empty gun. Knives and/or quality pepper spray come to mind.
    Quote Originally Posted by Open Carry.org Member View Post
    I really disgree with this one! That means that we can have any yahoo running around with a gun with out the proper training. This really scares the hell out of me. Just my two-cents!
    Quote Originally Posted by KansasMustang View Post
    Joe Schmedlap out there with a loaded weapon thinking he's going to deter crime and he's not even trained to fire his weapon safely just kinda makes my hair on the back of my neck stand up.

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    thnycav wrote:
    Well why not just get a blue gun and paint it black. I would be as useful as an empty pistol. Plus you would not need any permit for it.



    +1

    Another plus is you wouldn't have to worry about the bad guys hurting somebody else with it when they get done monkey stomping your ass after they call your bluff
    Quote Originally Posted by Open Carry.org Member View Post
    I really disgree with this one! That means that we can have any yahoo running around with a gun with out the proper training. This really scares the hell out of me. Just my two-cents!
    Quote Originally Posted by KansasMustang View Post
    Joe Schmedlap out there with a loaded weapon thinking he's going to deter crime and he's not even trained to fire his weapon safely just kinda makes my hair on the back of my neck stand up.

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    WCrawford wrote:
    catass wrote:
    Why would you want to open carry an empty gun?
    One reason a person may want to carry an unloaded weapon is that they cannot get a carry permit. Unlike Kentucky, inorder to carry a loaded handgun, you must have a permit, period. No one under 21 can get a permit in Tennessee.



    Also, just look at what is going on in California.
    California's "unloaded open carry" allows you to have loaded magazines with you, so long as they're not inserted in the gun.

    According the the TN law posted here, an unlicensed person can't legally OC if they have any access to ammo.

    California UOC is better than nothing, but Tennessee's sounds downright suicidal.



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    California's "unloaded open carry" allows you to have loaded magazines with you, so long as they're not inserted in the gun.

    According the the TN law posted here, an unlicensed person can't legally OC if they have any access to ammo.

    California UOC is better than nothing, but Tennessee's sounds downright suicidal.

    Right so why would you want to carry a unloaded weapon without access to ammo.

    Sounds like they need to get the law changed in TN.









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    catass wrote:
    WCrawford wrote:
    One reason a person may want to carry an unloaded weapon is that they cannot get a carry permit.
    A gun isn't a magical talisman that wards off evil. There are many other things that one can carry that would be a more useful self-defense tool than an empty gun. Knives and/or quality pepper spray come to mind.
    Never said it was. It was just asked why someone would want to carry an unloaded weapon. I provided some possible reasons.



    Would this be a good decision for me? No, but I'm not going to knock the person who does decide that this is good for them.



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    Name it Kommifornia Practice Carry

    Well I guess your only option is to "fool" the bad guys and stay within the law.
    Carry a 45 and loaded 40 cal mags. then only the cops will know you are
    unarmed.
    Better option is find under 21 girlfriend to carry the 40 cal, and 45 ammo.
    Just don't get caught holding hands I guess.

    Fortunately reaching 21 isn't to hard, and you can vote against the ones
    who disarm you till then.

    Just remember it is only a very attractive hammer that will get attention.
    It only takes one crooked cop that the judge believes to loose your rights forever,
    so you better research your locale and CYA big time.

    Only thing worse than being caught without a gun and needing it would be
    getting targeted for having a gun and needing ammo.


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    catass wrote:
    WCrawford wrote:
    One reason a person may want to carry an unloaded weapon is that they cannot get a carry permit.
    A gun isn't a magical talisman that wards off evil. There are many other things that one can carry that would be a more useful self-defense tool than an empty gun. Knives and/or quality pepper spray come to mind.
    You might want to carry a rock the size of a baseball. It will provide a much more lethal impact if you have to defend yourself at a distance of 25-75 feet and be much more accurate than throwing a firearm as long as you don't throw like a girl. Plus you can carry it concealed anywhere without breaking any laws.

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    Why dont you just get the permit ?

  18. #18
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    I have a permit.

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