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Thread: Kicked Out of Ron's Guns in East Lyme, CT

  1. #1
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    Today I did a short circuit of gun stores while OCing.

    First I went to Hoffman's, very crowded...looked around for 25 mins or so. I briefly spoke to the owner and replenished our CCDL business cards there. Despite the large crowd, no comments about my OCing.

    Then I went to the Newington Gun Exchange....again shopped for approx. twenty minutes. Shortly after I arrived, one of the guys working there turned to another, gestured towards me and asked if "that" was legal. The other sales guy told him it was depending on the town. A bit later the first guy asked me for details, and we politely conversed about legal OCfor awhile.

    Then I drove to Ron's Guns in East Lyme. I looked around for about two minutes before an older gentleman came up to me and asked if I needed any help. He then quickly asked me if my securely holstered gun was loaded. "ahh, it sure is!" I responded with a smile. He then told me I had to take it outside or leave.... no loaded guns allowed in the store. Surprised, I apologized for not knowing about this rule and I asked him if that was posted anywhere. He said it was posted "somewhere". As I walked out the door I turned and asked him if that rule applied to people who carry concealed. He kinda cringed, hesitated, then restated that loaded guns were not allowed in the store. "Justput it in the car and come'on back in." I smiled and left. Thanks, but no thanks!

    Twenty minutes later I was at the Outpost in Montville. They got a chuckle from my incident at Ron's.I replenished their CCDL cards and bought a holster. Good folks at the Outpost. The experience at Hoffman's and the Exchange was good too. 3 outta 4 CT shops todayain't sooo bad.... oh well for Ron's. A customer lost for them.

    Another report for the CT-OC journal.

    Open Carry On!!



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    My two cents:

    I'd like to believe that you or anyonecould walk into 100% of the firearms establishments in Connecticut carrying openly or concealed while in possession of a valid permit to do so.

    Beforewe write off Ron's Guns in East Lyme or it's owner or employee, it might be helpful to go back without your weapon and have a conversation explaining the issues and laws. I find it hard to believe that the owner of a gun store would knowingly and intentionally prohibit loaded open or concealed carry.

    On the other hand, he probably took the same instruction as most, and may be under the incorrect impression that concealed carry is mandatory in Ct.

    I'msure that everyfirearms establishment has seenan increase in sales lately.

    There are countless individuals in Connecticut who have lost the knowledge and history of our laws and rights. I for one have found individuals to be very understanding when not pressured by the moment.

    What we don't want in Connecticut, (as individuals who chose to open carry), is a reputation of being confrontational and disrespecting the rights of people who have a misunderstanding of the law or different beliefs and opinions.

    Ron's Guns in East Lyme is not the only place in Connecticut where this is going to happen, and I believe that we will eventually find support or a lack of criticism if we handle these situations in a manner that demonstrates or knowledge of the law, beliefs in the rights of othersand understanding of opposing views.


    Many of my most vocal critics have become my mosttrusted friends and supporters.

    To my suprise,many of those that do not like me or what I do, (and there are many), still respect me and have been kind enough to tell me so.









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    I would like to start by saying hello to everyone, and being my first post I am writing this with respect to the people that contribute to this website.I am not flaming or attacking anyone.

    When I read stories of open carry in a Ct business and thefirearm owner is asked to cover up and thefirearm owner "Educates" the store personal on gun laws I cringe and yell at my computer screen.

    CGS..Sec 29-28 (e) The issuance of any permit to carry a pistol or revolver does not thereby authorize the possession or carrying of a pistol or revolver in any premises where the possession or carrying of a pistol or revolver is otherwise prohibited by lawor is prohibited by the person who owns or exercises control over such premises. http://www.cga.ct.gov/2005/pub/Chap529.htm

    As a business owner I can assure you, we are not required to post a sign stating if you can OC/CC. I am also a gun owner and I know the confusion of Ct gun laws, and what this website and CCDL are trying to accomplish. The last thing CCDL or any organization wants is business owners complaining to the legislative body or the Ct Business Assoc. how their employees are being "Educated", on gun laws.

    To all OC'ers I respect what you are doing and commend you on you bravery, but please, when/if you are approached by store personal, be courteous, wise, and respectful.

    Thank you for you time, and again I write this with respect to all OC'ers.




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    Bizowner,


    I agree 100% with the information you have posted and take no offense.

    Your position as a business owner is exactly what I was trying to advocate and convey.

    Business owners, their agents or employees, have the absolute right to give notice though signage or verbally to anyone, that firearms are prohibited on or in their premises.

    Your posted comments go directly to the problems faced by individuals who carry firearms with a valid permit to do so.

    What the statute does, is provide individuals with valid permits to carry, the permission to carry their weapon anywhere it is NOT prohibited by law or somehow conved to the public by the person who owns or exercises control over such premise.

    It could be assumed by any individual carrying a firearm while in possession of a valid permit that permission to enter armed is permissible up until the time that they read or pass a sign or receive verbal notice otherwise from the owner or person in control over the premise.

    In this case, the single individual who posted to this message board has now been properly informed a given notice that “loaded” firearms are not permitted in the gun store named in the post. The problem is the other 150,000 or so holders of permits to carry that have yet to be informed of the gun shops policy.

    I have been asked by one business in Connecticut to not carry my weapon into the location, and chose to acknowledge the policy and leave the store rather than store my weapon in my unattended vehicle. After all, it's a permit to carry, not a permit to leave behind in a vehilce.

    As consumers, our decisions not to carry may not have any impact on a grocery chain, but could in fact hurt a business that specializes in the sale of firearms, ammunition,related equipment and supplies.

    I will not argue or demand a change in policy from any business owner who prohibits firearms, and will exercise my right to make my purchases elsewhere where I do not have to leave my weapoon unattended.

    I just thought it was unfair to publicize the incident without affording the business an opportunity to understand the issues involved.


    But then again,"GOOD PUBLICITY, BAD PUBLICITY IT STILL PUBLICITY" I'm sure there are many residents in Connecticut that will be more than happy to patronize businesses with a no weapon policy.

    When I go to a mall, airport etc., I use the men's room when needed, but only know which restroom to enter or stay out of by the signage whichis posted or the lack of urinals if I'm in the wrong one.

    Again, I respect your opinion and beliefs.




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    State Researcher lockman's Avatar
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    As long as the "policy" is enforced equally. Do you allow discrimination against customers based on their occupation?

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    BizOwner wrote:
    I would like to start by saying hello to everyone, and being my first post I am writing this with respect to the people that contribute to this website.I am not flaming or attacking anyone.

    When I read stories of open carry in a Ct business and thefirearm owner is asked to cover up and thefirearm owner "Educates" the store personal on gun laws I cringe and yell at my computer screen.

    CGS..Sec 29-28 (e) The issuance of any permit to carry a pistol or revolver does not thereby authorize the possession or carrying of a pistol or revolver in any premises where the possession or carrying of a pistol or revolver is otherwise prohibited by lawor is prohibited by the person who owns or exercises control over such premises. http://www.cga.ct.gov/2005/pub/Chap529.htm

    As a business owner I can assure you, we are not required to post a sign stating if you can OC/CC. I am also a gun owner and I know the confusion of Ct gun laws, and what this website and CCDL are trying to accomplish. The last thing CCDL or any organization wants is business owners complaining to the legislative body or the Ct Business Assoc. how their employees are being "Educated", on gun laws.

    To all OC'ers I respect what you are doing and commend you on you bravery, but please, when/if you are approached by store personal, be courteous, wise, and respectful.

    Thank you for you time, and again I write this with respect to all OC'ers.
    Thanks for taking the time to provide your input, BizOwner.

    I can see how it would cause you to "cringe" when OC proponents start to "educate" you.

    It can seem to be, and sometimes is in actuality, condescending.

    Most people here at OCDO, the large majority, respect business property rights. We know it is your shop and your rules (within legal parameters, of course).

    Maybe, over time, you and other fine business owners will take a more accomodating stance on OC. We hope so.

    We really would do well at OCDO, to foster the input from business owners we interact with, such as BizOwner.

    All too often we just slag a business owner for doing something we don't like and just fabricate any manner of chastisements about him, neglecting to get his side of the story...





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    A Friend of mine told me that there is a sign on or near the door that states "no loaded guns" in the store.

    I did not see it. I briefly looked for one when I was leaving butthere were many other signs up in that area.

    I would havecontacted Ron's guns for clarification (to confirm their policy, not to educate them on the law)....because it was not Ron himself who confronted me. But after I learned that there is an official sign posted, I will not bother.

    I politely respected their wishes,but as one who regularly carries open or concealed, I will not return toshop there.




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    BizOwner wrote:
    I would like to start by saying hello to everyone, and being my first post I am writing this with respect to the people that contribute to this website.I am not flaming or attacking anyone.

    When I read stories of open carry in a Ct business and thefirearm owner is asked to cover up and thefirearm owner "Educates" the store personal on gun laws I cringe and yell at my computer screen.

    CGS..Sec 29-28 (e) The issuance of any permit to carry a pistol or revolver does not thereby authorize the possession or carrying of a pistol or revolver in any premises where the possession or carrying of a pistol or revolver is otherwise prohibited by lawor is prohibited by the person who owns or exercises control over such premises. http://www.cga.ct.gov/2005/pub/Chap529.htm

    As a business owner I can assure you, we are not required to post a sign stating if you can OC/CC. I am also a gun owner and I know the confusion of Ct gun laws, and what this website and CCDL are trying to accomplish. The last thing CCDL or any organization wants is business owners complaining to the legislative body or the Ct Business Assoc. how their employees are being "Educated", on gun laws.

    To all OC'ers I respect what you are doing and commend you on you bravery, but please, when/if you are approached by store personal, be courteous, wise, and respectful.

    Thank you for you time, and again I write this with respect to all OC'ers.


    We will respect your right to control your premises, and if you don't want our guns in there, that's fine. We'll inform you of the law so you don't operate under false presumptions, but we will leave.

    And then we'll take our wallets elsewhere.

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    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    'Spangenbergs' in Tombstone Arizona (of all places) requires guns be unloaded prior to entering. Spangenburgs has been around about as long as Tombstone itself. Most of the gun stores I frequent don't have that policy 'cept for long guns and the sidearm must remain holstered. At any rate... it's private property. You can either abide by that... or go someplace else.

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    uskrusader wrote:
    A Friend of mine told me that there is a sign on or near the door that states "no loaded guns" in the store.

    I did not see it. I briefly looked for one when I was leaving
    butthere were many other signs up in that area.

    I would havecontacted Ron's guns for clarification (to confirm their policy, not to educate them on the law)....because it was not Ron himself who confronted me. But after I learned that there is an official sign posted, I will not bother.

    I politely respected their wishes,but as one who regularly carries open or concealed, I will not return toshop there.
    Well, if there really isa sign there, you had two opportunities to observe it. Going in and going out. Seems like you failed to be observant enough to spot it. So, your missing it had something to do with the extent of your "surprise" at the policyand dissatisfaction with the gun shop.

    Ya know, this case reminds me of something I've noticed in some other OC situations: that OCing has a deficiency (compared to CC) in situations like this.

    Say a place is posted "No Guns".... Well, if you don't notice the sign or willfully ignore it and you're CCing.....then, probably no one will notice and you will complete your transaction or visit. But if you are OCing in this same situation, there is a very high probability that someone will notice you and then the situation will have to be resolved in some manner, usually, but not always by a polite exchange of policyinformation and dissatisfaction.



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    HankT wrote:
    Well, if there really isa sign there, you had two opportunities to observe it. Going in and going out. Seems like you failed to be observant enough to spot it. So, your missing it had something to do with the extent of your "surprise" at the policyand dissatisfaction with the gun shop.
    Well, I'll admit that on the way in I did not search all the fine print on the front of the store....there were many advertisements, notes, etc.

    I asked (politely, of course), and the employeed said it was posted "somewhere". I looked on the way out and still didn't see it. Again, I admit that I didn't look long because I didn't feel like being there anymore.

    All the other gun stores I visited support the legal carry of firearms. I'm not deeply offended by their rules or their reaction....I just think its kinda dumb for a store whose business is providingthe toolsfor carry....to actually deny the right to carry in their store.

    I'm willing to bet that many people CC there without knowing their rules. I've been there many times CCing and also never noticed or heard of such a rule.

    I'm kinda happy that at least open carry was not challenged at the store....only that the revolver was loaded caused their concern. Silly, Ithink, thatthey'd be ok with me OCing an unloaded revolver.

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    Good job Jay. I will not step foot in Ron's for other reasons. However his customers are fellow gun owners so in that respect there is a need to have someone try to get through to him...

    I was already at the Outpost last Wed and if they needed cards again, that is a good thing. Was the Placards up on the wall at all of these places?

    And did you send Lenny an email so he could coordinate records with who is going where and when?

    Lenny did not mention your encounter and this is the first I am hearing about it...

    Carry On Jay!

    Oh, what did you buy?? :-)





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    romma wrote:
    Was the Placards up on the wall at all of these places?

    And did you send Lenny an email so he could coordinate records with who is going where and when?

    Lenny did not mention your encounter and this is the first I am hearing about it...

    Carry On Jay!

    Oh, what did you buy?? :-)
    Placards are up at Hoffmans and Outpost.

    Business cards up at Hoffmans, Newington Gun X, and Outpost.

    Coordination? I just went shopping and happened to have some extra cards for replenishing their stocks....didn't plan it. Haven't talked to Lenny.

    Bought a iTAC retention holster for G19....I didn't really need it as I have plenty of other OC options now....but wanted to support the outpost. Plus the Outpost has a 5% discount for folks in uniform. I like supporting them.

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    Yes, I always buy at least a box of ammo when Igo to the Outpost. They have the new Sig 238s in there as well..

    The reason I asked about coordination was so that we can be effective in our approachto everything from developingrelationships with shop owners, to making sure we are not overlooking stores we could miss.

    I mentioned it at the last meeting and yelled out Lennys email addressso that people could coordinate with him. He was kind enough to volunteer to keep tabs for accurate records..

    Would you please kick him a courtesy email when you get a chance??

    Great job just getting there, and thanks for letting me know about the placards on the walls... That is huge!

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    I handled the sig238....I want it!

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    Me too Jay, but they had the Notron sights which are expensive. You can get that gun for a lot cheaper without them... I handled it too and it felt great.

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    Mouse-gunners-R-Us

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    Not sure if you are interested but some frequently shopped gun stores in Northern CT are Riverview Sales (East Windsor)and Cabelas (East Hartford)..not sure if you would put CCDL cards there..not sure Cabela's policy on stuff like that either...but Riverview Sales would def do it..

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    BizOwner wrote:
    As a business owner I can assure you, we are not required to post a sign stating if you can OC/CC.
    I know this is the case, but if you do not post, how is someone supposed to KNOW that you don't want anyone carrying in your establishment?

    It seems to me that not prominently posting, and then challenging someone who is carrying is disingenuous, at least, if not downright cowardly. If you don't want us in the store, then have the cajones (and the courtesy) to post.

    This is the way I feel about Brass Mill Mall. Their signage is in less than half-inch letters buried about three fourths down a list of prohibitions - and is only posted at the main Mall entrances. It is not posted at the entrances from the anchor stores. If they are serious, they should post a large sign on every entrance door and every entrance from the anchor stores.

    I do not spend money at any store inside the mall.

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    I've noticed a sign at Chris's Indoor Range in Guilford that said something like it is a fine or prison time to bring a loaded gun into the store and range. However, I have brought one in CC as carrying it in and out that way. I think if you are basically safe, that is what matters to them. It seems to me they put rules up because of problem cases, but if you don't cause a problem, they look the other way.

    Anyway, I recently thought of one way to get around having a LOADED gun in the store. If you can, take the clip out when it is in the holster. I don't think that should be too hard nor a problem. That should take care of the problem for Ron's Guns in East Lyme. Everyone should be happy.

    I suppose it gets a little harder if you are in the habit of keeping one in the chamber too. But, maybe you can adjust that in the car before you go into the store.

    Looking for discrete clever ways to accommodate all.

    [LOVER, sometimes it does pay to pay especial attention to grammar in sentences.] ;-)

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    mark edward marchiafava wrote:
    Just a reminder: an employee is not on the same legal footing as an owner or agent and cannot speak on behalf of the owner.
    But they very well may be "in possession or control of the premises" so that their word rules.

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    uskrusader wrote:
    Well, I'll admit that on the way in I did not search all the fine print on the front of the store....there were many advertisements, notes, etc.

    I asked (politely, of course), and the employeed said it was posted "somewhere". I looked on the way out and still didn't see it. Again, I admit that I didn't look long because I didn't feel like being there anymore.

    All the other gun stores I visited support the legal carry of firearms. I'm not deeply offended by their rules or their reaction....I just think its kinda dumb for a store whose business is providingthe toolsfor carry....to actually deny the right to carry in their store.

    I'm willing to bet that many people CC there without knowing their rules. I've been there many times CCing and also never noticed or heard of such a rule.

    I'm kinda happy that at least open carry was not challenged at the store....only that the revolver was loaded caused their concern. Silly, Ithink, thatthey'd be ok with me OCing an unloaded revolver.


    atrule wrote:
    I've noticed a sign at Chris's Indoor Range in Guilford that said something like it is a fine or prison time to bring a loaded gun into the store and range. However, I have brought one in CC as carrying it in and out that way. I think if you are basically safe, that is what matters to them. It seems to me they put rules up because of problem cases, but if you don't cause a problem, they look the other way.

    Anyway, I recently thought of one way to get around having a LOADED gun in the store. If you can, take the clip out when it is in the holster. I don't think that should be too hard nor a problem. That should take care of the problem for Ron's Guns in East Lyme. Everyone should be happy.

    I suppose it gets a little harder if you are in the habit of keeping one in the chamber too. But, maybe you can adjust that in the car before you go into the store.

    Looking for discrete clever ways to accommodate all.

    [LOVER, sometimes it does pay to pay especial attention to grammar in sentences.] ;-)
    Seems like CC has an advantage over OC in these kinds of situations....

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    Seems like CC has an advantage over OC in these kinds of situations....
    I don't see why we're debating CC vs OC on OCDO... :?

    Anyway, I recently thought of one way to get around having a LOADED gun in the store. If you can, take the clip out when it is in the holster. I don't think that should be too hard nor a problem. That should take care of the problem for Ron's Guns in East Lyme. Everyone should be happy. I suppose it gets a little harder if you are in the habit of keeping one in the chamber too. But, maybe you can adjust that in the car before you go into the store.
    I don't like having to disarm. The more times I have to handle my firearm, the more likely it is that a negligent discharge will happen. We would all be safer if the guns remained holstered from the time we strapped them on until the time we put them in the safe.

    I don't carry a gun for decorative purposes. It should function whenever I might need it.

  25. #25
    Regular Member romma's Avatar
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    Code:
    I don't see why we're debating CC vs OC on OCDO...


    Why not look at pro's vs con's in a forum like this? To me, this seems like the best place to break down logical viewpoints.. I would advocate for the samedebate on ConcealedCarry.ORG if there was onew, and I posted there.

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