OC and School Rule

Yrdawg wrote:

Louisiana Carry wrote:

ejacobson325 wrote:

Louisiana Carry wrote:

Pretty serious.

IIRC, it is up to five years at hard labor for a violation.

I would imagine it is from the edge of the property.

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So basically, I cannot OC from or to my own home?

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Not if it involves stepping onto private property to go somewhere besides your vehicle.

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So I 'm guessin there has been clarification on going into a convenience store within the zone while CCW ??



I have been told by the CHL unit several years ago that thats not really private property ( convenience, grocery, gas station etc )and if its within the zone you cannot carry, only at a private residence



I know thats not remotely what the statue says....thats what the CHL unit said

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There may be case law to that effect, but I am not aware of it. However, a plain reading of the statute should work in favor of the accused. You and I know the hazards of listening to LEOs when it comes to speculation about legal interpretation. They may be able to give an informed opinion on what you will be arrested for, but only a judge/jury/appeals court can speak for what you will be convicted of. The law does not say residence, it says private property. I spoke to an appeals court judge about that kind of thing, and he said that his guiding principle is that doubt works in our favor.

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Louisiana Carry wrote:

Yrdawg wrote:

Louisiana Carry wrote:

ejacobson325 wrote:

Louisiana Carry wrote:

Pretty serious.

IIRC, it is up to five years at hard labor for a violation.

I would imagine it is from the edge of the property.

Click to expand...

So basically, I cannot OC from or to my own home?

Click to expand...

Not if it involves stepping onto private property to go somewhere besides your vehicle.

Click to expand...

So I 'm guessin there has been clarification on going into a convenience store within the zone while CCW ?? 

 

I have been told by the CHL unit several years ago that thats not really private property ( convenience, grocery, gas station etc ) and if its within the zone you cannot carry, only at a private residence

 

I know thats not remotely what the statue says....thats what the  CHL unit said

Click to expand...

There may be case law to that effect, but I am not aware of it.  However, a plain reading of the statute should work in favor of the accused.  You and I know the hazards of listening to LEOs when it comes to speculation about legal interpretation.   They may be able to give an informed opinion on what you will be arrested for, but only a judge/jury/appeals court can speak for what you will be convicted of.  The law does not say residence, it says private property.  I spoke to an appeals court judge about that kind of thing, and he said that his guiding principle is that doubt works in our favor.

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The law states: "(4)  The possession of a firearm occurring within one thousand feet of school property and entirely on private property, or entirely within a private residence..."

So the law does say "residence" but, it seems to me, it differentiates between private "property" and "residence".

A business, though having public access, is still considered private property by Louisiana law, correct?

If you went along with the claim that "private property" means only ones residence, does that mean strictly the structure of a house or does it also include the associated lot surrounding the structure? Otherwise, one could never carry from the car to the house legally.

And how would this apply to an apartment or condo? Your "residence" in such a place is only a small part of the "structure", so would you be in violation carrying from parking lot through the building?

 

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turbodog wrote:

Louisiana Carry wrote:

Yrdawg wrote:

Louisiana Carry wrote:

ejacobson325 wrote:

Louisiana Carry wrote:

Pretty serious.

IIRC, it is up to five years at hard labor for a violation.

I would imagine it is from the edge of the property.

Click to expand...

So basically, I cannot OC from or to my own home?

Click to expand...

Not if it involves stepping onto private property to go somewhere besides your vehicle.

Click to expand...

So I 'm guessin there has been clarification on going into a convenience store within the zone while CCW ??



I have been told by the CHL unit several years ago that thats not really private property ( convenience, grocery, gas station etc )and if its within the zone you cannot carry, only at a private residence



I know thats not remotely what the statue says....thats what the CHL unit said

Click to expand...

There may be case law to that effect, but I am not aware of it. However, a plain reading of the statute should work in favor of the accused. You and I know the hazards of listening to LEOs when it comes to speculation about legal interpretation. They may be able to give an informed opinion on what you will be arrested for, but only a judge/jury/appeals court can speak for what you will be convicted of. The law does not say residence, it says private property. I spoke to an appeals court judge about that kind of thing, and he said that his guiding principle is that doubt works in our favor.

Click to expand...

The law states: "(4) The possession of a firearm occurring within one thousand feet of school property and entirely on private property, or entirely within a private residence..."

So the law does say "residence" but, it seems to me, it differentiates between private "property" and "residence".

A business, though having public access, is still considered private property by Louisiana law, correct?

If you went along with the claim that "private property" means only ones residence, does that mean strictly the structure of a house or does it also include the associated lot surrounding the structure? Otherwise, one could never carry from the car to the house legally.

And how would this apply to an apartment or condo? Your "residence" in such a place is only a small part of the "structure", so would you be in violation carrying from parking lot through the building?

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You're right -- the officer was wrong. "Private property" means just that -- property that is privately-owned. The statute also excludes private residences, including private residences located on public property (i.e., in housing projects). There is no contrary definition in either the statute or the criminal code.

There's no ambiguity, either -- if "private property" meant the same as "private residence," or included all private residences, then there would be a redundancy in the statute. It runs completely contrary to statutory interpretation to assume suplus language.

BTW -- the legal rule your former appellate judge was talking about is called the "rule of lenity." Bascially, any ambiguity in a criminal statute is supposed to be construed in favor of the accused -- although you can find a lot of cases where this rule is pretty much ignored, or at least not strictly applied. Here, I see no argument that there's any ambiguity as an initial matter, so resort to the rule of lenity isn't even necessary.

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so basically even at 9:00pm when im walking with my wife and i pass a school i can go to jail. Because i do live near a school and i have been ocing at night for two weeksand passing the school. will i still get in trouble.

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tntorqu wrote:

so basically even at 9:00pm when im walking with my wife and i pass a school i can go to jail. Because i do live near a school and i have been ocing at night for two weeksand passing the school. will i still get in trouble.

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Section 922 of Title 18 of the U.S. Code: (1) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone. Exception: This does not include possession of a firearm on private property that is not part of school grounds or possession of a loaded firearm by an individual who is licensed to do so by the State. (i.e. a concealed carry, weapon, or firearm permit).Is Louisiana statute to a higher standard?

Yata hey

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Grapeshot wrote:

tntorqu wrote:

so basically even at 9:00pm when im walking with my wife and i pass a school i can go to jail. Because i do live near a school and i have been ocing at night for two weeksand passing the school. will i still get in trouble.

Click to expand...

Section 922 of Title 18 of the U.S. Code: (1) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone. Exception: This does not include possession of a firearm on private property that is not part of school grounds or possession of a loaded firearm by an individual who is licensed to do so by the State. (i.e. a concealed carry, weapon, or firearm permit).Is Louisiana statute to a higher standard?

Yata hey

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Yeah the state statute here is tougher. It makes NO exception for not knowing you are in a school zone and does NOT exempt permit holders from prosecution.

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RS 14:95.2 Carrying a firearm, or dangerous weapon, by a student or nonstudent on school property, at school-sponsored functions or firearm-free zone



[align=justify]C. The provisions of this Section shall not apply to:[/align]

[align=justify](4) The possession of a firearm occurring within one thousand feet of school property and entirely on private property, or entirely within a private residence, or in accordance with a concealed handgun permit issued pursuant to RS 40:1379.1.[/align]

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tntorqu wrote:

so basically even at 9:00pm when im walking with my wife and i pass a school i can go to jail. Because i do live near a school and i have been ocing at night for two weeksand passing the school. will i still get in trouble.

Click to expand...

Section 922 of Title 18 of the U.S. Code: (1) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone. Exception: This does not include possession of a firearm on private property that is not part of school grounds or possession of a loaded firearm by an individual who is licensed to do so by the State. (i.e. a concealed carry, weapon, or firearm permit).Is Louisiana statute to a higher standard?

Yata hey

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so a public street thats right next to a school is still private property?

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turbodog wrote:

Grapeshot wrote:

tntorqu wrote:

so basically even at 9:00pm when im walking with my wife and i pass a school i can go to jail. Because i do live near a school and i have been ocing at night for two weeksand passing the school. will i still get in trouble.

Click to expand...

Section 922 of Title 18 of the U.S. Code: (1) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone. Exception: This does not include possession of a firearm on private property that is not part of school grounds or possession of a loaded firearm by an individual who is licensed to do so by the State. (i.e. a concealed carry, weapon, or firearm permit).Is Louisiana statute to a higher standard?

Yata hey

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Yeah the state statute here is tougher. It makes NO exception for not knowing you are in a school zone and does NOT exempt permit holders from prosecution.

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Yes it does. I have a permit that allows me to carry in GFSZs in accordance with State and Federal law.

40:1379.3 permits do not qualify, 40:1379.1 permits do qualify.

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