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Thread: Open Carried a rifle at GMU

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    2009-011124 / Suspicious Event. Officers dispatched to the report of a person carrying a rifle into a dormitory. Investigation revealed the student was carrying a pellet rifle into his room in violation of University Policy. No crime was committed, and the weapon was secured by police. (22/Barton)
    oops.

    Glad it wasn't me! :P

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    That kid is Wouldn't want to be him:shock: WAIT!?!?!?!?!?!? No crime was committed??? Doesn't that mean that.....that....we can actually carry at GMU legally??

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    CRF250rider1000 wrote:
    That kid is Wouldn't want to be him:shock: WAIT!?!?!?!?!?!? No crime was committed??? Doesn't that mean that.....that....we can actually carry at GMU legally??
    Well the lawyer that represented GMU in the lawsuit did in fact state that the VAC regulation does not prohibit anyone from open carrying a handgun on the campus, only in buildings and at sporting/educational public events could they prohibit carrying.

    Since ocing on foot requires no ID to be presented to an officer I've considered doing it myself (and grabbing a pic at the mason statue) but I really don't think I'll do it, maybe I will in two years.

    I don't know if GMU's student/staff/faculty reg is the same as the code or if they're separate, but then again I can't see how the university can infringe upon one right (2nd amendment) yet go as far as providing private prayer areas for people to excercise their other rights (1st amendment).

    I've been tossing around the idea of writting a kind-worded letter to the GMU police chief and asking him if their officers are educated on open carry and what action they'd take if they saw someone OCing on campus (but not violating VAC regulations).

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    Alex and I can come OC at Mason, and then you two can come OC at JMU.

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    Well at least it seems that GMU police understand that VAC /= criminal code.

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    nova wrote:
    CRF250rider1000 wrote:
    That kid is Wouldn't want to be him:shock: WAIT!?!?!?!?!?!? No crime was committed??? Doesn't that mean that.....that....we can actually carry at GMU legally??
    Well the lawyer that represented GMU in the lawsuit did in fact state that the VAC regulation does not prohibit anyone from open carrying a handgun on the campus, only in buildings and at sporting/educational public events could they prohibit carrying.

    Since ocing on foot requires no ID to be presented to an officer I've considered doing it myself (and grabbing a pic at the mason statue) but I really don't think I'll do it, maybe I will in two years.

    I don't know if GMU's student/staff/faculty reg is the same as the code or if they're separate, but then again I can't see how the university can infringe upon one right (2nd amendment) yet go as far as providing private prayer areas for people to excercise their other rights (1st amendment).

    I've been tossing around the idea of writting a kind-worded letter to the GMU police chief and asking him if their officers are educated on open carry and what action they'd take if they saw someone OCing on campus (but not violating VAC regulations).
    I would be very interested as well in knowing if we could open carry. This is my second year at GMU but halfway through my senior year undergrad. I would love to set up a booth in the Johnson Center discussing open/concealed carry and educating people on gun laws of Virginia. I think it would be much easier if we had a legit chapter for SCCC, but at the point, Ive read in other threads where SCCC has been a little hard on OC'ers. Get in touch with me if you follow through on this, because I think its time Mason stops stepping all over the 2A on public property...
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    NightmareSHANIQUA wrote:
    nova wrote:
    CRF250rider1000 wrote:
    That kid is Wouldn't want to be him:shock: WAIT!?!?!?!?!?!? No crime was committed??? Doesn't that mean that.....that....we can actually carry at GMU legally??
    Well the lawyer that represented GMU in the lawsuit did in fact state that the VAC regulation does not prohibit anyone from open carrying a handgun on the campus, only in buildings and at sporting/educational public events could they prohibit carrying.

    Since ocing on foot requires no ID to be presented to an officer I've considered doing it myself (and grabbing a pic at the mason statue) but I really don't think I'll do it, maybe I will in two years.

    I don't know if GMU's student/staff/faculty reg is the same as the code or if they're separate, but then again I can't see how the university can infringe upon one right (2nd amendment) yet go as far as providing private prayer areas for people to excercise their other rights (1st amendment).

    I've been tossing around the idea of writting a kind-worded letter to the GMU police chief and asking him if their officers are educated on open carry and what action they'd take if they saw someone OCing on campus (but not violating VAC regulations).
    I would be very interested as well in knowing if we could open carry. This is my second year at GMU but halfway through my senior year undergrad. I would love to set up a booth in the Johnson Center discussing open/concealed carry and educating people on gun laws of Virginia. I think it would be much easier if we had a legit chapter for SCCC, but at the point, Ive read in other threads where SCCC has been a little hard on OC'ers. Get in touch with me if you follow through on this, because I think its time Mason stops stepping all over the 2A on public property...
    Hi there.

    GMUSCCC was going pretty good two years ago but kinda fell to pieces as the leading members graduated. A few were/are members here on OCDO but you're correct in that the national SCCC group did throw OC under the bus in Texas because they wanted their campus carry bill passed (which it didn't).

    Two years ago there was a "gun rights week" sponsered by the College Republicans which included a few lectures by Larry Pratt of GOA, John Lott (author) and Philip Van Cleave of the VCDL. Perhaps we would be interested in another gathering this year? I know last year there was the event at JMU which was similar and had good turnout.

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    nova wrote:
    the national SCCC group did throw OC under the bus in Texas because they wanted their campus carry bill passed (which it didn't).
    And this iswas strategic mistake - most states allow open carry at age 18, and concealed carry requires 21 - hence most college students are not affected by concealed carry rights expansion - why not get them involved in the open carry movement as freshmen?College students could at least organize to open carry off campus, hold events, go to the range, and get familiar with gun rights issues, etc.

    Would be fun, educational, and lead to bigger things down the road.

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    Mike wrote:
    nova wrote:
    the national SCCC group did throw OC under the bus in Texas because they wanted their campus carry bill passed (which it didn't).
    And this iswas strategic mistake - most states allow open carry at age 18, and concealed carry requires 21 - hence most college students are not affected by concealed carry rights expansion - why not get them involved in the open carry movement as freshmen?College students could at least organize to open carry off campus, hold events, go to the range, and get familiar with gun rights issues, etc.

    Would be fun, educational, and lead to bigger things down the road.
    I agree 100%. And that's one of the real laughable things when people argue against concealed carry on campus...they make it seem like everybody in the classroom is going to be packing, when only a fraction of the student body is 21+, and only a fraction of that subgroup would choose to carry. Being 20 I'm a huge supporter of OC for obvious reasons but at the same time I'll defend CC just the same because next year I'll get my CHP and want freedom of choice in the mode I carry.

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    "No crime was committed, and the weapon was secured by police."

    That right there just rubs me the wrong way. I assume, though, that it was 'stored' by the police.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

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    nova wrote:
    NightmareSHANIQUA wrote:
    nova wrote:
    CRF250rider1000 wrote:
    That kid is Wouldn't want to be him:shock: WAIT!?!?!?!?!?!? No crime was committed??? Doesn't that mean that.....that....we can actually carry at GMU legally??
    Well the lawyer that represented GMU in the lawsuit did in fact state that the VAC regulation does not prohibit anyone from open carrying a handgun on the campus, only in buildings and at sporting/educational public events could they prohibit carrying.

    Since ocing on foot requires no ID to be presented to an officer I've considered doing it myself (and grabbing a pic at the mason statue) but I really don't think I'll do it, maybe I will in two years.

    I don't know if GMU's student/staff/faculty reg is the same as the code or if they're separate, but then again I can't see how the university can infringe upon one right (2nd amendment) yet go as far as providing private prayer areas for people to excercise their other rights (1st amendment).

    I've been tossing around the idea of writting a kind-worded letter to the GMU police chief and asking him if their officers are educated on open carry and what action they'd take if they saw someone OCing on campus (but not violating VAC regulations).
    I would be very interested as well in knowing if we could open carry. This is my second year at GMU but halfway through my senior year undergrad. I would love to set up a booth in the Johnson Center discussing open/concealed carry and educating people on gun laws of Virginia. I think it would be much easier if we had a legit chapter for SCCC, but at the point, Ive read in other threads where SCCC has been a little hard on OC'ers. Get in touch with me if you follow through on this, because I think its time Mason stops stepping all over the 2A on public property...
    Hi there.

    GMUSCCC was going pretty good two years ago but kinda fell to pieces as the leading members graduated. A few were/are members here on OCDO but you're correct in that the national SCCC group did throw OC under the bus in Texas because they wanted their campus carry bill passed (which it didn't).

    Two years ago there was a "gun rights week" sponsered by the College Republicans which included a few lectures by Larry Pratt of GOA, John Lott (author) and Philip Van Cleave of the VCDL. Perhaps we would be interested in another gathering this year? I know last year there was the event at JMU which was similar and had good turnout.
    I remember reading over the weekend long event at JMU spring 2009 semester. It sounded like it was immensely educational and obviously made the Washington Post with a positive note.

    I think Mason needs to see something about the 2A again. Too many people I think kinda shrink back into their shells when you mention carrying, even OC over the weekend around town. And then some respond really well. I really considered trying to get the SCCC chapter started at Mason over the summer, but I ran out of time with summer classes and insane work.

    Let me know if you wanna get together sometime. Im on campus Mon-Thurs usually till about 5 or so. I can swing by on a Friday if thats the only time we can meet.
    OC - Kimber Custom II - trijicon night sights, beveled mag well, and Wilson combat mags
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    NightmareSHANIQUA wrote:
    snip.....
    I think Mason needs to see something about the 2A again. Too many people I think kinda shrink back into their shells when you mention carrying, even OC over the weekend around town. And then some respond really well. I really considered trying to get the SCCC chapter started at Mason over the summer, but I ran out of time with summer classes and insane work.

    Let me know if you wanna get together sometime. Im on campus Mon-Thurs usually till about 5 or so. I can swing by on a Friday if thats the only time we can meet.
    Do it even if you start small. Meet for lunch or even over a cup of coffee.

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    NightmareSHANIQUA wrote:
    nova wrote:
    NightmareSHANIQUA wrote:
    nova wrote:
    CRF250rider1000 wrote:
    That kid is Wouldn't want to be him:shock: WAIT!?!?!?!?!?!? No crime was committed??? Doesn't that mean that.....that....we can actually carry at GMU legally??
    Well the lawyer that represented GMU in the lawsuit did in fact state that the VAC regulation does not prohibit anyone from open carrying a handgun on the campus, only in buildings and at sporting/educational public events could they prohibit carrying.

    Since ocing on foot requires no ID to be presented to an officer I've considered doing it myself (and grabbing a pic at the mason statue) but I really don't think I'll do it, maybe I will in two years.

    I don't know if GMU's student/staff/faculty reg is the same as the code or if they're separate, but then again I can't see how the university can infringe upon one right (2nd amendment) yet go as far as providing private prayer areas for people to excercise their other rights (1st amendment).

    I've been tossing around the idea of writting a kind-worded letter to the GMU police chief and asking him if their officers are educated on open carry and what action they'd take if they saw someone OCing on campus (but not violating VAC regulations).
    I would be very interested as well in knowing if we could open carry. This is my second year at GMU but halfway through my senior year undergrad. I would love to set up a booth in the Johnson Center discussing open/concealed carry and educating people on gun laws of Virginia. I think it would be much easier if we had a legit chapter for SCCC, but at the point, Ive read in other threads where SCCC has been a little hard on OC'ers. Get in touch with me if you follow through on this, because I think its time Mason stops stepping all over the 2A on public property...
    Hi there.

    GMUSCCC was going pretty good two years ago but kinda fell to pieces as the leading members graduated. A few were/are members here on OCDO but you're correct in that the national SCCC group did throw OC under the bus in Texas because they wanted their campus carry bill passed (which it didn't).

    Two years ago there was a "gun rights week" sponsered by the College Republicans which included a few lectures by Larry Pratt of GOA, John Lott (author) and Philip Van Cleave of the VCDL. Perhaps we would be interested in another gathering this year? I know last year there was the event at JMU which was similar and had good turnout.
    I remember reading over the weekend long event at JMU spring 2009 semester. It sounded like it was immensely educational and obviously made the Washington Post with a positive note.

    I think Mason needs to see something about the 2A again. Too many people I think kinda shrink back into their shells when you mention carrying, even OC over the weekend around town. And then some respond really well. I really considered trying to get the SCCC chapter started at Mason over the summer, but I ran out of time with summer classes and insane work.

    Let me know if you wanna get together sometime. Im on campus Mon-Thurs usually till about 5 or so. I can swing by on a Friday if thats the only time we can meet.
    I have a whacky schedule but am only busy tues/thurs until 4:15 (on break from 1:15-3:00), mon/wed from 4:30-7:10. Fridays are open.

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    I have a whacky schedule but am only busy tues/thurs until 4:15 (on break from 1:15-3:00), mon/wed from 4:30-7:10. Fridays are open.
    Youve gotta be kidding me? I have tues thurs class from 12-1:15 in RobA... Ill be in the JC tomorrow same time you have break. Shoot me an email or PM and we can get this set up





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    pm sent

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    Just thinking about the GMU VAC thing again, I found something interesting.

    Looking back at my original post, the quoted piece from the GMU crime log...it says no crimes were committed. Yet, a pellet gun fits the definition of a weapon for this particular administrative code:

    "Weapon" means any pistol, revolver, or other weapon designed or intended to propel a missile of any kind, or any dirk, bowie knife, switchblade knife, ballistic knife, razor slingshot, spring stick, metal knucks, blackjack, or any flailing instrument consisting of two or more rigid parts connected in such manner as to allow them to swing freely, which may be known as nun chahka, nun chuck, nunchaku, shuriken, or fighting chain, or any disc, of whatever configuration, having at least two points or pointed blades that is designed to be thrown or propelled and that may be known as throwing star or oriental dart.

    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...g+8VAC35-60-10

    The definition used for this VAC differs from State Law in that the law defining firearms in the Commonwealth says "propel a missile of any kind by means of explosion" so pellet guns are not considered firearms by state law.


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    Are you sure that the "rapid expansion of gasses" would not be an "explosion?" hmm.....

    Directly from Webster's

    " a large-scale, rapid, or spectacular expansion or bursting out or forth"

    hmm.....

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    CRF250rider1000 wrote:
    Are you sure that the "rapid expansion of gasses" would not be an "explosion?" hmm.....
    Pneumatic weapons (pellet gun, taers, Etc.) do NOT ue expanding gas. They releae gas that is stored under pressure.

    The General Asembly exempted "Pneumatic" weapons, several years ago, then they broadened the exemption further by changing Pneumatic, to the current definition.


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    peter nap wrote:
    CRF250rider1000 wrote:
    Are you sure that the "rapid expansion of gasses" would not be an "explosion?" hmm.....
    Pneumatic weapons (pellet gun, taers, Etc.) do NOT ue expanding gas. They releae gas that is stored under pressure.

    The General Asembly exempted "Pneumatic" weapons, several years ago, then they broadened the exemption further by changing Pneumatic, to the current definition.
    Thanks!

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    Mike wrote:
    nova wrote:
    the national SCCC group did throw OC under the bus in Texas because they wanted their campus carry bill passed (which it didn't).
    And this is*was strategic mistake - most states allow open carry at age 18, and concealed carry requires 21 - hence most college students are not affected by concealed carry rights expansion - why not get them involved in the open carry movement as freshmen?**College students could at least organize to open carry off campus, hold events, go to the range, and get familiar with gun rights issues, etc.*

    Would be fun, educational, and lead to bigger things down the road.
    Kind of stupid that they are not allowed to carry, but if they join the military we will issue them a firearm which they can open carry overseas and they get to go fight to defend the right of all us old fogies to OC HERE.

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    nova wrote:
    2009-011124 / Suspicious Event. Officers dispatched to the report of a person carrying a rifle into a dormitory. Investigation revealed the student was carrying a pellet rifle into his room in violation of University Policy. No crime was committed, and the weapon was secured by police. (22/Barton)
    oops.

    Glad it wasn't me! :P
    WTF! If no crime was committed WHY WAS THE WEAPON SECURED BY POLICE?!?!
    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
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    simmonsjoe wrote:
    nova wrote:
    2009-011124 / Suspicious Event. Officers dispatched to the report of a person carrying a rifle into a dormitory. Investigation revealed the student was carrying a pellet rifle into his room in violation of University Policy. No crime was committed, and the weapon was secured by police. (22/Barton)
    oops.

    Glad it wasn't me! :P
    WTF! If no crime was committed WHY WAS THE WEAPON SECURED BY POLICE?!?!
    A pellet gun isn't a "WEAPON" either!
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    simmonsjoe wrote:
    nova wrote:
    2009-011124 / Suspicious Event. Officers dispatched to the report of a person carrying a rifle into a dormitory. Investigation revealed the student was carrying a pellet rifle into his room in violation of University Policy. No crime was committed, and the weapon was secured by police. (22/Barton)
    oops.

    Glad it wasn't me! :P
    WTF! If no crime was committed WHY WAS THE WEAPON SECURED BY POLICE?!?!
    student was carrying a pellet rifle into his room in violation of University Policy.

    Note it did not say that the student objected either.

    Yata hey

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    The student probably surrendered the pellet gun in hopes of not facing disciplinary action. I haven't heard anything about this so maybe they never bothered to follow through with it. If he/she was expelled for bringing a pellet gun in their dorm it probably would have made the news, at least a short blurb.

    At least GMU PD knows the law well enough to not making anything of it. As I've said previously I've OC'd around GMU and passed numerous officers and they don't even look twice. They regularly patrol the surrounding roads and shopping centers around mason including the City of Fairfax just north of campus.

    Does anyone know if university police are empowered to enforce university policy that is not law nor in the administrative code?

  25. #25
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    nova wrote:
    The student probably surrendered the pellet gun in hopes of not facing disciplinary action. I haven't heard anything about this so maybe they never bothered to follow through with it. If he/she was expelled for bringing a pellet gun in their dorm it probably would have made the news, at least a short blurb.

    At least GMU PD knows the law well enough to not making anything of it. As I've said previously I've OC'd around GMU and passed numerous officers and they don't even look twice. They regularly patrol the surrounding roads and shopping centers around mason including the City of Fairfax just north of campus.

    Does anyone know if university police are empowered to enforce university policy that is not law nor in the administrative code?
    It is in the administrative code of most universities.
    illegal ≠ immoral legal ≠ moral
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