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    i will be visiting the victorville and palm dale area. i know i have to get some new mags or bring a smaller gun. what are the reg on hand guns in the vehicle, carry, andhotel? Any help will be appriciated.

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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter bigtoe416's Avatar
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    Unloaded (no rounds in chamber or in a magazine inserted into the firearm) open carry (gun in a belt holster) in vehicles or on your person is fine. Stay 1000' from any K-12 schools. Don't go into a government building (post office, library, city hall, police station, etc.). Keep your loaded magazines exposed. If you're bringing a revolver then you can keep moon clips and speed loaders in your pocket. Don't bring magazines which can hold over 10 rounds unless those magazines were in California when 1999 became 2000. Don't load your gun unless you're in unincorporated territory where it is legal to discharge a firearm.

    Your hotel is your domicile. Some hotels aren't gun friendly, most people don't mention that they're armed. You can carry loaded and concealed in your hotel room.

    If you're going to OC, it would be prudent to carry a audio recorder which is running at all times.

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    bigtoe416 wrote:
    Unloaded (no rounds in chamber or in a magazine inserted into the firearm) open carry (gun in a belt holster) in vehicles or on your person is fine. Stay 1000' from any K-12 schools. Don't go into a government building (post office, library, city hall, police station, etc.). Keep your loaded magazines exposed. If you're bringing a revolver then you can keep moon clips and speed loaders in your pocket. Don't bring magazines which can hold over 10 rounds unless those magazines were in California when 1999 became 2000. Don't load your gun unless you're in unincorporated territory where it is legal to discharge a firearm.

    Your hotel is your domicile. Some hotels aren't gun friendly, most people don't mention that they're armed. You can carry loaded and concealed in your hotel room.

    If you're going to OC, it would be prudent to carry a audio recorder which is running at all times.
    thanks for the info. i don't plan on OCing. my main concern was in the car.

    So i can have the gun in the car and a loaded magazine next to it, just not loaded in the gun correct?

    And when its in the car does it have to be exsposed or concealed?

    I have one of those metal gun case that have the cable. so my plan was to put my gun unloaded and two loaded mags in the case. for just in case moments.

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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter bigtoe416's Avatar
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    gtparlette wrote:
    So i can have the gun in the car and a loaded magazine next to it, just not loaded in the gun correct?

    And when its in the car does it have to be exsposed or concealed?

    I have one of those metal gun case that have the cable. so my plan was to put my gun unloaded and two loaded mags in the case. for just in case moments.
    An exposed (on the dashboard, on the passenger's seat), or openly holstered firearm can be unloaded with a loaded magazine right next to it.

    If you're going to conceal it, then it needs to be in a fully-enclosed locked container. Like a duffel bag with a lock so you can't unzip it would work. A metal gun case which is locked so you can't access the inside would work as well.

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    Just to be clear, CA Penal Code 626.9 prohibits possessing a handgun within 1,000 feet of any place accredited in teaching any grade K-12. However, this only applies if you know, or reasonably should know you are near a school. (Since you're visiting, it might be harder to convince the jury you should have known there was a school two blocks over.) Further, you can exempt yourself from 626.9 by securing your handgun within a fully-enclosed, locked container.

    My recommendation is that you keep the pistol in a belt holster while driving. If you have to stop for any reason or if you discover yourself entering a "gun free school zone", just lock it (and the ammo) in your gun case on the seat next to you. When you're back on the road, take it back out.

    I do NOT recommend dash-board or seat-top open carry, since a sudden turn or bump in the road could cause your handgun or mag to slide off and end up under the seat, leading to a violation of concealed carry laws. (Court precedent holds that a full mag being concealed can be a violation of CA PC 12025.)
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    CA_Libertarian wrote:
    Just to be clear, CA Penal Code 626.9 prohibits possessing a handgun within 1,000 feet of any place accredited in teaching any grade K-12. However, this only applies if you know, or reasonably should know you are near a school. (Since you're visiting, it might be harder to convince the jury you should have known there was a school two blocks over.) Further, you can exempt yourself from 626.9 by securing your handgun within a fully-enclosed, locked container.

    My recommendation is that you keep the pistol in a belt holster while driving. If you have to stop for any reason or if you discover yourself entering a "gun free school zone", just lock it (and the ammo) in your gun case on the seat next to you. When you're back on the road, take it back out.

    I do NOT recommend dash-board or seat-top open carry, since a sudden turn or bump in the road could cause your handgun or mag to slide off and end up under the seat, leading to a violation of concealed carry laws. (Court precedent holds that a full mag being concealed can be a violation of CA PC 12025.)
    thanks i appreciate your help. now i just got to get some new mags. Do you guys get harassed out there for open carry?

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    gtparlette wrote:
    thanks i appreciate your help. now i just got to get some new mags. Do you guys get harassed out there for open carry?
    It's getting better, but it varies wildly across the state. Some cities have trained their officers to be minimally invasive; others seem to show signs they are going to do everything they can to give us a bad day. The vast majority of localities have had no exposure to the concept of open carry, so it's hard to say how they'll react.
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    I am wondering what are the laws pertaining to long guns. I have an remington 870 and an AR 15.

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    Same deal.

    Californiaopencarry.org. Read up on it.

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    I'm moving back to CA soon (unfortunately, hopefully I'll be leaving in short order as well, but anyhow), and this thread caught my eye.

    In regards to vehicle carry, holstered and unloaded, with mags on the belt, is acceptable? Is there any case law to back that up? How solid is that, like would I still end up having tobail myself out pending a trial if I hada pistolon a 3 o'clock belt holster?

    Thanks in advance. It's going to be a rough transition from the wonderful environment of Idaho to the environment of CA. I'm really going to miss loaded OC and never having people so much as bat an eye at me 99.99% of the time.

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    gtparlette, regarding the AR, if it's listed in the CA ban by name then it is not legal to bring into CA. If it's not, you'll have to neuter it and leave all your mags over 10-rounds out of CA. Visit the CalGuns.net forums for all the info you need on this topic.

    gtparlette and NightOwl, regarding various OC questions. Start by reading the FAQ on californiaopencarry.org. Then read the flyer. Then if you still have questions, come back here and post. Your bigest problem here (asside from not loading) will be school zones.



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    bigtoe416 wrote:
    An exposed (on the dashboard, on the passenger's seat), or openly holstered firearm can be unloaded with a loaded magazine right next to it...
    I think I know what you meant, but just to clarify...

    Firearms are loaded or unloaded. Magazines are empty or not empty or full, etc.

    "Loaded" is used in the penal code with regard to the firearm, not the magazine. See 12031(g).
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    NightOwl wrote:
    In regards to vehicle carry, holstered and unloaded, with mags on the belt, is acceptable? Is there any case law to back that up? How solid is that, like would I still end up having tobail myself out pending a trial if I hada pistolon a 3 o'clock belt holster?
    No case law needed. That which is not prohibited is legal. There's no case law because there's no statute to charge somebody with.

    The main drawback to car carry is 626.9 (The "California Gun Free School Zone Act"). If you're driving in any populated area, you're likely to come within 1,000 feet of a school. All the cops/DA have to do is convince a jury that you "reasonably should have known" the school is there.

    For this reason, I strongly recommend carrying in a locked container to exempt yourself from 626.9 - unless you know the area very well and are confident there will be no school zones on your route. (And even then, keep the container handy in case you have to take a detour through unknown territory.)

    ETA: I've been stopped twice while carrying in my car.

    The first time was very early on in the OC movement here in CA, and the cops thought I was violating 12025 (carrying a concealed weapon); I was taken down at gun point, cuffed, and stuffed in a patrol car for about 45 minutes. In the end I was un-arrested, had my firearm returned, and sent on my merry way (after 15 minutes of scolding and lightly veiled threats to my physical and financial safety).

    The second time, the officer didn't even ask to check if my firearm was loaded.
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    MudCamper wrote:
    gtparlette, regarding the AR, if it's listed in the CA ban by name then it is not legal to bring into CA. If it's not, you'll have to neuter it and leave all your mags over 10-rounds out of CA. Visit the CalGuns.net forums for all the info you need on this topic.

    gtparlette and NightOwl, regarding various OC questions. Start by reading the FAQ on californiaopencarry.org. Then read the flyer. Then if you still have questions, come back here and post. Your bigest problem here (asside from not loading) will be school zones.


    Thanks for the info. It would be to much work to make it legal. I'll just have to stick with my pistols and shotgun.




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    gtparlette wrote:
    Thanks for the info. It would be to much work to make it legal. I'll just have to stick with my pistols and shotgun.


    Not really.

    Is that lower listed by name in the ban list? If so, just buy a new off list lower, slap a bullet button on it, and buy some 10 round magazines for it and you're set.

    If it isn't on the ban list, then just add the bullet button and swap out the mags and you're done.

    You can't bring your 30 round magazines into California, unless you had them in the state when the ban went into effect (Jan 1, 2000 I believe).

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    You can, however, break the mags down into components as "mag rebuild kits"

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    You can get an off list lower for $100 if your rifle's lower is banned by name. Slap in a bullet button, a 10 rounder, and you're good to go. Leave your old lower with someone out of state for safe keeping, and you can disassemble your 30 rounders or leave them.
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    CA_Libertarian wrote:
    No case law needed. That which is not prohibited is legal. There's no case law because there's no statute to charge somebody with.
    Thanks for the great reply (I cut it for brevity in response, not lack of appreciation of all of it). I did come across another possible issue for me moving back to the state. I have a 9mm, with typical 9mm capacity magazines (15 rounds). Do I need to throw those away and buyCA approved lower capacity magazines?

    "(5) A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds."

    That's what I came across that made me wonder. Am I misinterpreting that?*sigh* part of my liking of the9mm is the capacity of the magazine, Imight as well carry a heavier pistol, like a 45 or something, if I can't have a largercapacity magazine than 10 rounds.

    Any inputwould be greatly appreciated on this. Thanks in advance.


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    NightOwl wrote:
    Do I need to throw those away and buyCA approved lower capacity magazines?
    You do unless you had those magazines in the state of California when the ban went into effect. Lame huh? You can always leave them in Idaho, or apparently you can break them down into rebuild kits and bring them in, just don't assemble them.

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    I was hoping that "Magazines may be integral to the firearm (fixed) or removable (detachable)." meant that I had legal grounds for it to be larger capacity, since being a typical slide-in etc it would be considered detatchable. Fixed, to me, means like for a shotgun, where it's sort of internal and not-removable.

    Very disappointing. I like the 9mm for it's higher capacity, dammit. Thanks for the reply. *crossing my fingers hoping someone comes up to refute it though*

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    bigtoe416 wrote:
    NightOwl wrote:
    Do I need to throw those away and buyCA approved lower capacity magazines?
    You do unless you had those magazines in the state of California [at any time prior to] when the ban went into effect. Lame huh? You can always leave them in Idaho, or apparently you can break them down into rebuild kits and bring them in, just don't assemble them.
    I made a small edit to NightOwl's response.

    Statutorily the exemption is, "The importation of a large-capacity magazine by a person who lawfully possessed the large-capacity magazine in the state prior to January 1, 2000, lawfully took it out of the state, and is returning to the state with the large-capacity magazine previously lawfully possessed in the state."



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    Perhaps someone could clarify the difference between a fixed magazine and a detachable magazine, so far as the law sees it, for me? I'm not understanding how that applies to the usual magazine, which seems pretty detachable to me. Fixed seems more like a shotgun.

    What am I not getting about this?

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    fixed magazines are where you need the use of a tool to remove it (like a bullet button)

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    Thank you, Sionadi.

    Now I'm more confused than ever. If the law is that weapons with a fixed magazine cannot hold more than 10 rounds, what/where is the law that states that a magazine (like in my 9mm) cannot have more than 10? As far as I'm seeing it, my stock size magazine is perfectly legal.

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    NightOwl wrote:
    I was hoping that "Magazines may be integral to the firearm (fixed) or removable (detachable)." meant that I had legal grounds for it to be larger capacity, since being a typical slide-in etc it would be considered detatchable. Fixed, to me, means like for a shotgun, where it's sort of internal and not-removable.

    Very disappointing. I like the 9mm for it's higher capacity, dammit. Thanks for the reply. *crossing my fingers hoping someone comes up to refute it though*
    You're correct about fixed vs. detachable. The statute your seem to be referring to is a prohibition on "assault weapons" - a term covering a broad range of specific models, and then lots of feature-combinations (e.g. semi-auto pistol with forward grip, rifle with flash supressor, etc, etc, etc. (see CA AW ID Flowchart at CalGuns.net

    However, there is yet another statute that prohibits the manufacturing, importation, selling, or lending of any "large-capacity magazines" (any mag - detachable or fixed - over 10 rounds).

    I suggest simply disassebling your mags into "rebuild kits", which basically means you're importing parts, not mags. Reassembling these parts into magazines within the state's borders would be considered "manufacturing", so don't do that. Just buy the CA-legal mags, and hope the NRA, CalGuns Foundation, or Madison Society get litigation moving to remove this ridiculous prohibition on NORMAL-capacity magazines.

    (Note that the statute does not prohibit buying or posessing high-cap mags, so if one were to be found in possession, it would be up to the DA to prove they were imported, manufactured, sold, or lent illegally.)

    (See CA PC 12020 for citation, exemptions.)
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