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Thread: Nevada...gold star state my ass

  1. #1
    Regular Member Prophet's Avatar
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    Long story short:

    I'm taking a walk down Silverado with my shirt off catching some rays. My 1911 on my hip. About an hour into my walk a LEO pulls up and asks if he can talk to me for a minute. Im like sure, nice day, im in no rush.

    He was like, got some calls, do you have a permit and registration card.

    I reply, no, im out of state and I dont need my pistol registered.

    On come the cuffs off go my pistol.

    6 cop cars end up showing up. They ask me for my name, i give it to them, i give them my DL too to prove im from out of state and as such don't need my pistol registered.

    First cop was like, its illegal to carry without a CCW (eventually he retracts that) then he says its illegal to fly with a pistol and it has to be shipped to an FFL dealer and then i can pick it up when it arrives (WTF?!?!) i convince him that thats absurd. Next he tells me that I had 24 hours from when I arrived to get it registered.

    I tell him about pre-emption and he says "I don't want to hear about pre-emption, the county can make stricter laws if it wants to". I'm like WHAT?!?!? To myself I'm thinking what the hell do you think pre-emption means?

    Anyways, he sticks by that, and his sgt who shows up backs him up on it. For about the hour that im there they keep asking for my SSN, i dont give it, who im staying with, i don't tell them. Then one officer says, hey we're trying to help but you're making it difficult. We can just assume your guilty and take you in if you dont want to help us.

    I didn't know we were back in Berlin circa 1938 where I had to show papers and was guilty until proven innocent.

    Eventually, they call the DA and he backs them up on the 24 hour period for registration, Pre-emption be damned, and write me a citation and confiscate my pistol.

    My court date is scheduled for Dec. 3rd but I leave Sept. 22nd. Suggestions?

  2. #2
    Regular Member Prophet's Avatar
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    oh yeah...not like the registration ordinance and 60 residency requirement is ON THEIR OWN WEBSITE...oh wait...it is:

    http://www.lvmpd.com/Permits/firearms_registration.html

    NRS 244.364 Limited authority to regulate firearms; restrictions concerning registration of certain firearms in county whose population is 400,000 or more.

    Except as otherwise provided by specific statute, the Legislature reserves for itself such rights and powers as are necessary to regulate the transfer, sale, purchase, possession, ownership, transportation, registration and licensing of firearms and ammunition in Nevada, and no county may infringe upon those rights and powers. As used in this subsection, "firearm" means any weapon from which a projectile is discharged by means of an explosive, spring, gas, air or other force.
    A board of county commissioners may proscribe by ordinance or regulation the unsafe discharge of firearms.
    If a board of county commissioners in a county whose population is 400,000 or more has required by ordinance or regulation adopted before June 13, 1989, the registration of a firearm capable of being concealed, the board of county commissioners shall amend such an ordinance or regulation to require:
    A period of at least 60 days of residency in the county before registration of such a firearm is required.
    A period of at least 72 hours for the registration of a pistol by a resident of the county upon transfer of title to the pistol to the resident by purchase, gift or any other transfer.

  3. #3
    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    Prophet wrote:
    ...Next he tells me that I had 24 hours from when I arrived to get it registered.

    I tell him about pre-emption and he says "I don't want to hear about pre-emption, the county can make stricter laws if it wants to". I'm like WHAT?!?!? To myself I'm thinking what the hell do you think pre-emption means?

    Anyways, he sticks by that, and his sgt who shows up backs him up on it. For about the hour that im there they keep asking for my SSN, i dont give it, who im staying with, i don't tell them. Then one officer says, hey we're trying to help but you're making it difficult. We can just assume your guilty and take you in if you dont want to help us.

    I didn't know we were back in Berlin circa 1938 where I had to show papers and was guilty until proven innocent.

    Eventually, they call the DA and he backs them up on the 24 hour period for registration, Pre-emption be damned, and write me a citation and confiscate my pistol.

    My court date is scheduled for Dec. 3rd but I leave Sept. 22nd. Suggestions?
    Man, what a bummer. Those guys seemed to want to hang something on you.

    How did they find out you had been in town more than 24 hours?


  4. #4
    Regular Member Prophet's Avatar
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    I told them. Now, i guess I should've kept my mouth shut but I thought knowing the law and being completely in the right would've shielded me from this bull. Whoops. I basically told them "I have 60 days of being a resident before I have to register my firearm and i've only been here since Tuesday".

    Hence, I told them I was here for more than a day. But I chalk that up to telling them something like I was wearing blue underwear and then they make up a ordinance violation to bust me with. That 24 hour thing is pure fiction and there is no way I could've forseen them pulling that on me. Misapplying ordinance violations, sure...making them up as they go? Wow.

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    I am so sorry to hear of your ordeal.

    But as you've stated, you broke no law. I'll speculate they will drop all charges.

    And I would hope you'll file "counter charges" against LVMPD. (Here is a case where we need a legal defense (and offense!) fund.

    Also see http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum36/31287.html



  6. #6
    Regular Member Prophet's Avatar
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    At this point if they are willing to give my gun back within a day or two i'll chalk it up to officer education. I just don't have the energy to keep coming back to Vegas to pursue this. But if they force me to fly back to fight this ticket then yeah, they'll pay me for my efforts, big time. But this isn't my state, hell, this isn't even my coast so i'm willing to let it slide this one time. Like Spider man says...everyone gets one. So long as this is resolved by wednesday with the return of my property and some form of an apology would be nice.

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    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    Prophet wrote:
    I told them. Now, i guess I should've kept my mouth shut but I thought knowing the law and being completely in the right would've shielded me from this bull. Whoops. I basically told them "I have 60 days of being a resident before I have to register my firearm and i've only been here since Tuesday".

    Hence, I told them I was here for more than a day. But I chalk that up to telling them something like I was wearing blue underwear and then they make up a ordinance violation to bust me with...

    No, it doesn't sound like the blue underwear example at all...

    It sounds to me like you're totally in the right. But the underwear thing comparison is a non-starter.




  8. #8
    Regular Member Prophet's Avatar
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    I was just using it as an analogy about how ridiculous it is to be doing something completely legal and being cited for it.

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    What did they write the ticket for? Got officer names and what station they are out of?

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    Wow! Sorry about the run in. Goes to show you should never talk to police, especially in these circumstances.

    I mean, what good could possibly come from it? Best case, you get to continue on your way. Worst case is the OP's story, or possibly even worse!

    Some of you aren't as stubborn as I am when it comes to talking to police, but there's a difference between a quick/friendly exchange while you and the cop are in line at a restaurant, and a cop on duty rolling up in his cruiser on you. I think you'd probably agree that when you are the subject of an investigation, remaining silent is the best course of action. The officer started off with "got some calls". Immediately zip the lips! How do you know those calls were about a man OC and not a man who just robbed a store?

    I would say the fact that the DA's office was called would excuse the officers on the final outcome of the stop, but not the other aspects of it. But what I find astonishing is that every officer on scene, the Sgt, and even the DA's office were completely unaware of the law and assuming themselves correct, falsely arrested a man and confiscated his property! More than 20 months have elapsed since Clark County updated it's code, and in that year and a half, none of these folks have learned this simple law?

    It begs the question as to how many other visitors have had their property confiscated and been charged under this code? The Clark County code, by the way, CC 12.04.110 or 12.04.200 are already up to date and preemption is irrelevant here! Was this the code under which you were cited?

    12.04.110 Registration of pistols within seventy-two hours.Any resident of the county receiving title to a pistol, whether by purchase, gift, or any other transfer, and whether from a dealer or from any other person, shall, within seventy-two hours of such receipt, personally appear at the county sheriff's office, together with the pistol, for the purpose of registering the same with the sheriff. It shall be the duty of the sheriff to register the pistol, and he may, and is hereby authorized to cooperate in any manner he sees fit with other law enforcement agencies, and with licensed dealers, relative to registration of pistols, so that efficient registration shall be secured at minimum cost and duplication.

    12.04.200 Registration of firearms capable of being concealed.It is unlawful for any person with at least sixty days of residency in the county to own or have in his possession, within the unincorporated area of Clark County, a pistol or other firearm capable of being concealed, unless the same has first been registered with the sheriff or with a police department of any of the incorporated cities of Clark County.
    Tim


  11. #11
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    Get a lawyer!!!

  12. #12
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    where in vegas was this?

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    Gordie wrote:
    Get a lawyer!!!
    +1000

    You are in the same position as the gentleman in New Mexico who is about to receive a substantial cash settlement or judgment for a similar violation of his rights.
    James M. "Jim" Mullins, Jr., Esq.
    Admitted to practice in West Virginia and Florida.

    Founder, Past President, Treasurer, and General Counsel, West Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc.
    Life Member, NRA

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    Take the printout of the relevant code down to the police dept. Demand politely to see the chief. Show him the relevant code, and politely and firmly demand the return of your weapon post haste.

    If your demands are not met, contact the local press and get them involved immediately.

    Contact the local District Attorney and threaten lawsuit. Show him/her the code!!!

    Then show them all the recent District Court Decision in New Mexico about this whole kind of thing.

    We'll enjoy reading tomorrow night about your victory in this crazy abuse of power case.



  15. #15
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    Prophet,

    Please check your private messages - and/or contact me ASAP.

    Larry/varminter22

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    Update?

    Was this resolved before you flew home?

  17. #17
    Regular Member Prophet's Avatar
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    Pretty much. I recieved a phone message from a Sgt. Richter of metro firearms division monday evening. My work kept me rather busy so I couldn't call until Wednesday morning. Sgt. Richter told me I could take my citation to the Southeast Area command so that they can strike it and then I go to the evidence locker and pick up my pistol. He was very pleasant on the phone and said if I had any problems to contact him.

    So the timeline of events is as follows:

    Sunday afternoon: Get hassled by 6 cops and have my firearm stolen by them.
    Sunday afternoon and then some: I contact the Sgt. present (ironically enough Sgt. Liberty) with factual data showing he was flat out wrong on the law and informing him that I would like my firearm returned immediately.
    Monday: Received an email from Sgt. Liberty telling me he forwarded the info I sent him to a Det. Orth in firearms, told him I could be in contact, and then told me I should call. I did, he wasnt in, i left a message.
    Monday Night: I recieve a phone message from Sgt. Richter asking me if i could call him back.
    Tuesday, 14 hour work day, no chance to call.
    Wednesday noonish: I call sgt. richter and have aforementioned conversation.
    Thursday? I plan on doing going to SE command, getting a copy of my citation, then picking up my firearm.

    I'll let you know if I have any problems. I could've picked it up two days ago if I had gotten back to Sgt. Richter earlier. With that said, there was a one day turnaround from conflict to resolution. All in all a bit faster than I expected but someone along the chain must of realized that someone done messed up royally.

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    Prophet wrote:
    Pretty much. I recieved a phone message from a Sgt. Richter of metro firearms division monday evening. My work kept me rather busy so I couldn't call until Wednesday morning. Sgt. Richter told me I could take my citation to the Southeast Area command so that they can strike it and then I go to the evidence locker and pick up my pistol. He was very pleasant on the phone and said if I had any problems to contact him.

    So the timeline of events is as follows:

    Sunday afternoon: Get hassled by 6 cops and have my firearm stolen by them.
    Sunday afternoon and then some: I contact the Sgt. present (ironically enough Sgt. Liberty) with factual data showing he was flat out wrong on the law and informing him that I would like my firearm returned immediately.
    Monday: Received an email from Sgt. Liberty telling me he forwarded the info I sent him to a Det. Orth in firearms, told him I could be in contact, and then told me I should call. I did, he wasnt in, i left a message.
    Monday Night: I recieve a phone message from Sgt. Richter asking me if i could call him back.
    Tuesday, 14 hour work day, no chance to call.
    Wednesday noonish: I call sgt. richter and have aforementioned conversation.
    Thursday? I plan on doing going to SE command, getting a copy of my citation, then picking up my firearm.

    I'll let you know if I have any problems. I could've picked it up two days ago if I had gotten back to Sgt. Richter earlier. With that said, there was a one day turnaround from conflict to resolution. All in all a bit faster than I expected but someone along the chain must of realized that someone done messed up royally.

    Very good! It would have been better overall if it had not have happened in the first place, but at least you are getting it stricken and firearm returned. Legally, NONE of it should have happened. Hopefully, Metro will "get it" soon.

    Hmm, also, contact the NV ACLU. They are 2nd Amendment friendly. :celebrate


    http://www.aclunv.org/aclu-nevada-su...ight-bear-arms
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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    Regular Member wewd's Avatar
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    You need to get a lawyer right now and sue these cops' balls off. Your rights have been violated under the color of law. You need a civil rights attorney who will file a 42 USC 1983 lawsuit against them. Go to the New Mexico board and read up on the Alamogordo case. The police will not stop doing this crap until they get sued.
    Do you want to enjoy liberty in your lifetime?

    Consider moving to New Hampshire as part of the Free State Project.

    "Live Free or Die"

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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    wewd wrote:
    You need to get a lawyer right now and sue these cops' balls off. Your rights have been violated under the color of law. You need a civil rights attorney who will file a 42 USC 1983 lawsuit against them....
    EVERYBODY says this, but I've yet to find a single circumstance where one has done this (with an attorney on contingency), exceptingthose instances with extenuating circumstances (e.g. - minority member involved, excess force used, excess detention time, etc.). So far, I have yet to see a case where a lone individual who has been stopped or arrested go forward to a 1983 case.

    Have I missed all of them?

    If would be *really nice* if we collectively could figure out how to do so, because there are a boatload of cases that could go forward.

  21. #21
    Regular Member wewd's Avatar
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    BB62 (were you on the Big J?), I just mentioned the case in New Mexico. It's a fantastic case and everyone who open carries should study it. Thread is here: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum39/31252.html
    Do you want to enjoy liberty in your lifetime?

    Consider moving to New Hampshire as part of the Free State Project.

    "Live Free or Die"

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    BB62 wrote:
    wewd wrote:
    You need to get a lawyer right now and sue these cops' balls off. Your rights have been violated under the color of law. You need a civil rights attorney who will file a 42 USC 1983 lawsuit against them....
    EVERYBODY says this, but I've yet to find a single circumstance where one has done this (with an attorney on contingency), exceptingthose instances with extenuating circumstances (e.g. - minority member involved, excess force used, excess detention time, etc.). So far, I have yet to see a case where a lone individual who has been stopped or arrested go forward to a 1983 case.

    Have I missed all of them?

    If would be *really nice* if we collectively could figure out how to do so, because there are a boatload of cases that could go forward.
    have you taken a look at this?

    http://www.nvd.uscourts.gov/Files/1983-instructions.pdf


    http://www.nvd.uscourts.gov/Files/42...0Complaint.pdf

  23. #23
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    suntzu wrote: Yea, I was just getting ready to reply to BB62 about contingency cases. It's hard to get attorneys to take these on contingency because the award is usually NOMINAL DAMAGES referenced in the instructions (page 7 - Part E #2) which is generally $1.00 for each violation.

    You can sue for mental distress, etc. but this can be a tricky one to prove in court. In the NM case, in addition to the 1983 action, the plaintiff also raised claims such as tortious battery. The judge deferred that to a jury to decide refusing to enter summary judgment.

    In Nevada, the tort limit is $75,000. A $25,000 contingency can be juicy enough for some hungry attorneys to take a look at it, but my experience has been that most of the GOOD civil rights attorneys won't look twice at such small damages, preferring only to litigate cases involving significant personal injury.

    But I'm still going to try. I have an attorney who's agreed to take the case, but we have to sort out just how much we can reasonably expect to win in court. If it winds up being minimal and he opts to remove himself, I'm still going to file pro-se and take my chances.

    Tim

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    You know why they want to dismiss the charges and give you back your gun, right?

    They just F@cked up big time and know that you can sue them!

    Visit http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.htm...367&page=1

    A federal judge just ruled that you can not be detained for OC.

    Time to stick it to them!

  25. #25
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    BB62 wrote:
    wewd wrote:
    You need to get a lawyer right now and sue these cops' balls off. Your rights have been violated under the color of law. You need a civil rights attorney who will file a 42 USC 1983 lawsuit against them....
    EVERYBODY says this, but I've yet to find a single circumstance where one has done this (with an attorney on contingency), exceptingthose instances with extenuating circumstances (e.g. - minority member involved, excess force used, excess detention time, etc.). So far, I have yet to see a case where a lone individual who has been stopped or arrested go forward to a 1983 case.

    Have I missed all of them?

    If would be *really nice* if we collectively could figure out how to do so, because there are a boatload of cases that could go forward.
    Prepaid legal services? Looks like it's $325 for the first year with 75 hours of legal services tossed in (prepaidlegal.com)

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