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Thread: Examiner.com: Madison police dispatcher misled 911 caller on open carry

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    http://www.examiner.com/x-2782-DC-Gu...-on-open-carry (with audio file recording of actual 911 call that got travis Yates detained and ticketed)

    SNIP

    It may take a while, and a few lawsuits, but eventually, Madison Police dispatchers will respond like their counterparts now do in other states and dryly reply to 911 callers reporting sighting of an open carrier something like: "Sir, it's not illegal to carry a gun in Wisconsin. Is the individual doing anything that is suspicious?"

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Hey is that a new picture of OC Lori? Where is that in Oleg's albums?

    TFred


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    Mike wrote:
    Please help raise awarness of this news column by clicking on theDIGG and/or REDDIT account links and promoting the column!

    Also, sign up for instant notification of future DC Gun Rights Examiner columns via email using the "subscribe" button in the column orvia the Twitter link at the bottom of the column if you have or get a Twitter account.

    http://www.examiner.com/x-2782-DC-Gu...-on-open-carry (with audio file recording of actual 911 call that got travis Yates detained and ticketed)

    SNIP

    It may take a while, and a few lawsuits, but eventually, Madison Police dispatchers will respond like their counterparts now do in other states and dryly reply to 911 callers reporting sighting of an open carrier something like: "Sir, it's not illegal to carry a gun in Wisconsin. Is the individual doing anything that is suspicious?"
    Ryan asked the operator if there was a concealed carry law in Wisconsin and the operator correctly stated that there was not. Yes, she should have stated that OC WAS legal, but again there is no law that says it is.

    While I agree a lot of problems can be addressed at the 911 juncturethe answer to Ryan's question was correct.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Venator wrote:
    Ryan asked the operator if there was a concealed carry law in Wisconsin and the operator correctly stated that there was not. Yes, she should have stated that OC WAS legal, but again there is no law that says it is.

    While I agree a lot of problems can be addressed at the 911 juncturethe answer to Ryan's question was correct.
    You are losing the big picture of what transpired - many people use the term "concealed carry" to mean the carry of any concealable weapon - as Ryan did here, re a large gun attached to a hip.

    I know what you mean re "Yes, she should have stated that OC WAS legal, but again there is no law that says it is," but I could nitpick this too as incorrect - "the law" is not necessarily a positive statute - sources of law include many things, including common law, constitutonal provisions, case law, regulations, legal treatises, andopinions of the attorney general, etc.

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    Regular Member Interceptor_Knight's Avatar
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    Venator wrote:
    Yes, she should have stated that OC WAS legal, but again there is no law that says it is.
    We lack a lawwhich says it is legal to wear a purple shirt on Tuesdays also. It is the lack of a law explicitly prohibiting Open Carry which makes Open Carry legal in WI..... Even a lowly 911 operator should be aware of this obvious fact......

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    The Supreme law of the state, The State Constitution, clearly states:

    Right to keep and bear arms. SECTION 25. [As created
    Nov. 1998] The people have the right to keep and bear arms for
    security, defense, hunting, recreation or any other lawful purpose.
    [1995 J.R. 27, 1997 J.R. 21, vote November 1998]

    According to the online dictionary (http://dictionary.reference.com)

    Security:

    1. freedom from danger, risk, etc.; safety. 2. freedom from care, anxiety, or doubt; well-founded confidence. 3. something that secures or makes safe; protection; defense. 4. freedom from financial cares or from want: The insurance policy gave the family security. 5. precautions taken to guard against crime, attack, sabotage, espionage, etc.: The senator claimed security was lax and potential enemies know our plans.
    Defense:

    1. resistance against attack; protection: Two more regiments are needed for the defense of the city.

    Recreation:

    1. refreshment by means of some pastime, agreeable exercise, or the like. 2. a pastime, diversion, exercise, or other resource affording relaxation and enjoyment.
    So, the law clearly states we have the right to bear arms.

    However, there is also written law that states it is illegal to carry a concealed fire arm.

    There is no written law that states it is illegal to open carry a fire arm other than, in a school zone, a business with a Class B liquor license, inside a government owned/leased building, and inside your motor vehicle.

    IMHO, this case falls in the same context as the St. John case which was decided on 09/09/09.

    The officer also knew the law or should have known the law that he was enforcing.
    In actuality, there is no law, so there was nothing for the officer to enforce.

    The 911 Operator is not a sworn law enforcement officer and therefore may not know the law, yet still has caused the individual to be subjected to deprivation of rights.

    Sounds like both the 911 operator and the officer will be writing the biggest checks of their lives real soon.

    By the way, what happened to the woman who supposedly was visiting from Washington State. Wasn't she one of the people who called 911 on this individual?

  7. #7
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    Those of us who live in the Madison area know well that the Dane County 911 Center has gotten a lot of harsh criticism over the past year or so-- apparently much of it has been deserved. A brief summary can be found here:

    http://www.nbc15.com/home/headlines/58657522.html

    The Travis Yates tape clearly shows that additional training is required of the dispatchers in order to assure the safety and rights of those who choose to OC.

    I will be sending correspondence to the head of the 911 Center to explain the issues and concerns.
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    According to Mike's story, Ryan did not call 911:

    But there is more to the story - Ryan's report to the police was made via the non-emergency line in the form of an inquiry - not a report of any disturbance or crisis.

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    Venator wrote:

    Ryan asked the operator if there was a concealed carry law in Wisconsin and the operator correctly stated that there was not. Yes, she should have stated that OC WAS legal, but again there is no law that says it is.
    A review of the Tenth Amendment might be in order...

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    Mike wrote:
    Venator wrote:
    Ryan asked the operator if there was a concealed carry law in Wisconsin and the operator correctly stated that there was not. Yes, she should have stated that OC WAS legal, but again there is no law that says it is.

    While I agree a lot of problems can be addressed at the 911 juncturethe answer to Ryan's question was correct.
    You are losing the big picture of what transpired - many people use the term "concealed carry" to mean the carry of any concealable weapon - as Ryan did here, re a large gun attached to a hip.

    I know what you mean re "Yes, she should have stated that OC WAS legal, but again there is no law that says it is," but I could nitpick this too as incorrect - "the law" is not necessarily a positive statute - sources of law include many things, including common law, constitutonal provisions, case law, regulations, legal treatises, andopinions of the attorney general, etc.
    Words mean things. Regardless of what the caller meant (And I don't know how you can make that assumption) he said concealed carry.

    I'm not losing the big picture. I think you know me well enough that I agree that the primary place to educate is at the 911 leg of a call. But after hearing the 911 call, she did answer all his questions correctly.

    911 operators don't know the laws, it's not part of the job requirement. they are trained in how to respond, etc... It's up to the 911 supervisors and the department as a whole to train their operators in regards to 911 calls about OC.

    In Michigan that is always stressed in any letters MOC, Inc.sends to a LE agency, in fact we even give an example of a call.

    Getting back to the recording again I say she answered the question correctly.


    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Venator wrote:
    Getting back to the recording again I say she answered the question correctly.
    it depends what you mean by "correctly," but even granting that the answer was 'correct," it was still "misleading."

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