Opencarry Larry
New member
imported post
So I decided to run off to Home Depot this afternoon for some errands but upon trying to re-enter my truck, I realized the key had broken off in the ignition, disabling me from entering my truck. Worse yet (or was it better?) I was wearing my service 9mm and a loaded magazine in the opposing pouch. Seeing this to be a fine time to exercise my 2nd Amendment rights, I realized that I was still in California and had to figure out all the necessary legal obstacles.I was (and currently still am) unclear with public transportation and taxi cab travel while carrying and I was in no mood to challenge the law (being sick for the last 3 days, I didn't really feel like a trip downtown if I accidentally overlooked some of their rules) so I used my GPS to check on school zones and discovered that I must walk another 2.2 miles out of the way in order to adhere to these guidelines.
I had just climbed to the top of a hill on my 6.25 mile walk home to retrieve my keys, breathless and nearly expired when a patrol car passed by. Seconds later another patrol car passed. I heard it slow down behind me and the sirens chirped as it came to a stop. I threw my arms out to the sides (not up, I'm not going to look even TALLER than I already am). "Keep your hands where I can see them!" was his stern order. I had half a mind to make a Napoleon Dynamite flying bird impersonation, but his lack of smile kept my heart beating at a worried tempo.
"Is there anything wrong officer?" I asked, smiling confidently and keeping my hands far away from my weapon. He then asked me if I always carry a gun, and I said with a nonchalant "No, but I've got a funny story." I continued, "My key busted off in my ignition, so rather than leaving my firearm in the truck, I opted to carry it, and since the lockbox weighs 11lbs, the only legal way to transport it was walking with it open for all to see."
"Is the gun loaded?" barked the concerned police officer. "Currently, no sir, it is not." "Alright, just sit tight until backup arrives" (he chatters something into the radio) "Do you have any warrants?" The officer asked as the second car rolled up. "No sir, I am not a prohibit person. It would be insanely stupid for me to be open carrying if I have any blemishes on my record." The officer nodded and smiled in agreeing.
Backup arrived; an officer with braces came up and asked me what I was doing. I said "Walking." He asked where, I replied with a general wave in the direction of the road. "That way." "And where are you coming from?" He asked, notepad out and jotting down everything I said (or didn't say) "Over there, my truck's key broke off in the ignition and I didn't want to leave my pistol. I'm sure you fellows understand."
Two other patrol cars arrived and I became I was out mobbed by a wall of badges, at least 5-6 officers were present. The original police asked if I was part of "...that open-carry dot org group..." to which Ireplied that I had no affiliation with any group. I am an American, and the Second Amendment guarantees my right to bear arms."
"Well sir, "said the original police. We are going to have to do a check to see if it is loaded. I can't recall the exact wording, but I answered "I will comply with all ORDERS" and then corrected their laymen's terms and said, "Oh, a 12031 check, sure, to be on my way." I turned around and placed my hands on my head so they could ATTEMPT at retrieving my weapon from its snug holster. "Have you done this before?" one officer asked. I said no, and had he? He answered no (with a laugh). They struggled with the holster and asked if it had any retention clips (I said no, but it's designed for no one but me to draw the gun out except for myself). They pulled my gun out, checked the magazine (empty) and chamber (also empty) and put it on the dash board of a patrol car and started asking questions into the radio.
The second he put it down onto the car I raised my voice "Is there a problem with my firearm, sir?" He said "No" andthat he was looking at buying a 9mm and was looking at the model number (I didn't want to tell him the serial number was on the BOTTOM, not where he claimed he was looking for model description) My 9mm is a Honda to his current Camaro, What the heck interest does he have he possibly have in an undeniably inferior firearm? The other officer seemed to be trying to cover for his buddy and said they were unsure if I could have an empty magazine in the gun, to which I said that it was not illegal. I asked if there was any law I was breaking because I really would like to be on my way. Officer BraceFace leaned over and whispered something in the other officer's ear and an interest in running the serial number were expressed, at which point I chirped up and said "Sir, I haven't broken any laws and there is no probable cause which suggests that I am, have been or am going to break the law. Under these guidelines, I don't believe you have probable cause. Remember sir, it MUST be reasonable, articulablesuspicion." After this, my gun became a hot potato that no one wanted to touch. They tried to give it back to me but being surrounded by police it was rather difficult to retrieve my weapon. As such, I lifted my hands and leaned my hip over for him to return my firearm but since this officer doubted his ability to insert the firearm (following his inability to effectively draw it) back into my holster, he assured me it was ok to put my hands on it and thus I put my gun back into the holster.
Immediately after I put my gun away, thebracesofficer asked "Do you mind if I ask for your ID?" (Ah, a tricky fellow, he knew that I had done no wrong and I should have been on my way)."Is there a law that forces me to relinquish my identification if I haven't committed a crime?" I challenged. "There is no law that forces you to relinquish your ID if you have not committed a crime."(He repeated with a partial sigh of impatience, hehe). He then asked again "So, do you mind if I ask for your ID?" "Sir, I do mind, as you just stated that I am not doing anything wrong, and it is my right to be right here right now and I have cooperated in all of the ways I feel are needed to carry out a 12031 check. Am I free to go?""Yes, you are, thank you for your compliance.""And thank you for your time; I'm glad it's been a learning experience for you. Good day"
I didn't remember to ask for THEIR ID, as it IS our right to be able to identify THEM. They are PUBLIC SERVANTS, serving US, the legal tax payers! Next time all, next time.
I know I did a few things wrong, but I was very impressed by their knowledge and that I very well could be recording their proceedings. I stood by most of my rights, with the exception of cooperating with their requests, but sometimes a little honey calms the bees down. I informed them of the law when they were hazy, and managed to leave without them cussing under their breath about "radical gun activist nuts". I smiled a lot, but most of them were not completely genuine, except when they showed hits of being human. Great experience, no regrets.
OK, some question/comments/concerns.
1) Where was this and which PD was involved? I don't know. Being sick fogged my head
2) Things that went wrong.
a) When the sirens chirp, don't throw your arms out. You aren't doing anything illegal and for all you know, they could be stopping a drug addict walking behind you. Until you are ORDERED to do so, don't raise/levitate your hands/arms. Doing so without provocation shows guilt and you have nothing to be guilty for.
b)Do not tell them where you came from, where you are going to or why you are there, even if it is a general direction. Just say "Somewhere", "Someplace", etc. Remember, they are there to try to arrest you.
c) Do not help them in any way with pulling your weapon.By me allowing them to struggle with it, it dashed their mighty image and showed they were human, just for a second.
d)Good job on denying ID and sticking your ground with the serial number thingy.
e) You need a voice recorder if you are going to carry. No exceptions!
So I decided to run off to Home Depot this afternoon for some errands but upon trying to re-enter my truck, I realized the key had broken off in the ignition, disabling me from entering my truck. Worse yet (or was it better?) I was wearing my service 9mm and a loaded magazine in the opposing pouch. Seeing this to be a fine time to exercise my 2nd Amendment rights, I realized that I was still in California and had to figure out all the necessary legal obstacles.I was (and currently still am) unclear with public transportation and taxi cab travel while carrying and I was in no mood to challenge the law (being sick for the last 3 days, I didn't really feel like a trip downtown if I accidentally overlooked some of their rules) so I used my GPS to check on school zones and discovered that I must walk another 2.2 miles out of the way in order to adhere to these guidelines.
I had just climbed to the top of a hill on my 6.25 mile walk home to retrieve my keys, breathless and nearly expired when a patrol car passed by. Seconds later another patrol car passed. I heard it slow down behind me and the sirens chirped as it came to a stop. I threw my arms out to the sides (not up, I'm not going to look even TALLER than I already am). "Keep your hands where I can see them!" was his stern order. I had half a mind to make a Napoleon Dynamite flying bird impersonation, but his lack of smile kept my heart beating at a worried tempo.
"Is there anything wrong officer?" I asked, smiling confidently and keeping my hands far away from my weapon. He then asked me if I always carry a gun, and I said with a nonchalant "No, but I've got a funny story." I continued, "My key busted off in my ignition, so rather than leaving my firearm in the truck, I opted to carry it, and since the lockbox weighs 11lbs, the only legal way to transport it was walking with it open for all to see."
"Is the gun loaded?" barked the concerned police officer. "Currently, no sir, it is not." "Alright, just sit tight until backup arrives" (he chatters something into the radio) "Do you have any warrants?" The officer asked as the second car rolled up. "No sir, I am not a prohibit person. It would be insanely stupid for me to be open carrying if I have any blemishes on my record." The officer nodded and smiled in agreeing.
Backup arrived; an officer with braces came up and asked me what I was doing. I said "Walking." He asked where, I replied with a general wave in the direction of the road. "That way." "And where are you coming from?" He asked, notepad out and jotting down everything I said (or didn't say) "Over there, my truck's key broke off in the ignition and I didn't want to leave my pistol. I'm sure you fellows understand."
Two other patrol cars arrived and I became I was out mobbed by a wall of badges, at least 5-6 officers were present. The original police asked if I was part of "...that open-carry dot org group..." to which Ireplied that I had no affiliation with any group. I am an American, and the Second Amendment guarantees my right to bear arms."
"Well sir, "said the original police. We are going to have to do a check to see if it is loaded. I can't recall the exact wording, but I answered "I will comply with all ORDERS" and then corrected their laymen's terms and said, "Oh, a 12031 check, sure, to be on my way." I turned around and placed my hands on my head so they could ATTEMPT at retrieving my weapon from its snug holster. "Have you done this before?" one officer asked. I said no, and had he? He answered no (with a laugh). They struggled with the holster and asked if it had any retention clips (I said no, but it's designed for no one but me to draw the gun out except for myself). They pulled my gun out, checked the magazine (empty) and chamber (also empty) and put it on the dash board of a patrol car and started asking questions into the radio.
The second he put it down onto the car I raised my voice "Is there a problem with my firearm, sir?" He said "No" andthat he was looking at buying a 9mm and was looking at the model number (I didn't want to tell him the serial number was on the BOTTOM, not where he claimed he was looking for model description) My 9mm is a Honda to his current Camaro, What the heck interest does he have he possibly have in an undeniably inferior firearm? The other officer seemed to be trying to cover for his buddy and said they were unsure if I could have an empty magazine in the gun, to which I said that it was not illegal. I asked if there was any law I was breaking because I really would like to be on my way. Officer BraceFace leaned over and whispered something in the other officer's ear and an interest in running the serial number were expressed, at which point I chirped up and said "Sir, I haven't broken any laws and there is no probable cause which suggests that I am, have been or am going to break the law. Under these guidelines, I don't believe you have probable cause. Remember sir, it MUST be reasonable, articulablesuspicion." After this, my gun became a hot potato that no one wanted to touch. They tried to give it back to me but being surrounded by police it was rather difficult to retrieve my weapon. As such, I lifted my hands and leaned my hip over for him to return my firearm but since this officer doubted his ability to insert the firearm (following his inability to effectively draw it) back into my holster, he assured me it was ok to put my hands on it and thus I put my gun back into the holster.
Immediately after I put my gun away, thebracesofficer asked "Do you mind if I ask for your ID?" (Ah, a tricky fellow, he knew that I had done no wrong and I should have been on my way)."Is there a law that forces me to relinquish my identification if I haven't committed a crime?" I challenged. "There is no law that forces you to relinquish your ID if you have not committed a crime."(He repeated with a partial sigh of impatience, hehe). He then asked again "So, do you mind if I ask for your ID?" "Sir, I do mind, as you just stated that I am not doing anything wrong, and it is my right to be right here right now and I have cooperated in all of the ways I feel are needed to carry out a 12031 check. Am I free to go?""Yes, you are, thank you for your compliance.""And thank you for your time; I'm glad it's been a learning experience for you. Good day"
I didn't remember to ask for THEIR ID, as it IS our right to be able to identify THEM. They are PUBLIC SERVANTS, serving US, the legal tax payers! Next time all, next time.
I know I did a few things wrong, but I was very impressed by their knowledge and that I very well could be recording their proceedings. I stood by most of my rights, with the exception of cooperating with their requests, but sometimes a little honey calms the bees down. I informed them of the law when they were hazy, and managed to leave without them cussing under their breath about "radical gun activist nuts". I smiled a lot, but most of them were not completely genuine, except when they showed hits of being human. Great experience, no regrets.
OK, some question/comments/concerns.
1) Where was this and which PD was involved? I don't know. Being sick fogged my head
2) Things that went wrong.
a) When the sirens chirp, don't throw your arms out. You aren't doing anything illegal and for all you know, they could be stopping a drug addict walking behind you. Until you are ORDERED to do so, don't raise/levitate your hands/arms. Doing so without provocation shows guilt and you have nothing to be guilty for.
b)Do not tell them where you came from, where you are going to or why you are there, even if it is a general direction. Just say "Somewhere", "Someplace", etc. Remember, they are there to try to arrest you.
c) Do not help them in any way with pulling your weapon.By me allowing them to struggle with it, it dashed their mighty image and showed they were human, just for a second.
d)Good job on denying ID and sticking your ground with the serial number thingy.
e) You need a voice recorder if you are going to carry. No exceptions!
