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Thread: Florida needs your help

  1. #1
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    Hi folks. I have come across an issue that requires immediate redress here in the State of Florida. In talking to some folks in the Florida section we are going to organize an OC weekend of camping and fishing. In Florida, we are allowed to legally OC for those activities.
    "790.25 Lawful ownership, possession, and use of firearms and other weapons.--
    3)LAWFUL USES.--The provisions of ss. 790.053(this is the section of Florida law prohibiting the open carry of firearms and weapons) and 790.06 do not apply in the following instances, and, despite such sections, it is lawful for the following persons to own, possess, and lawfully use firearms and other weapons, ammunition, and supplies for lawful purposes:
    (h)A person engaged in fishing, camping, or lawful hunting or going to or returning from a fishing, camping, or lawful hunting expedition;"

    In 2006, the Florida Legislature passed HR1029c which went into law on October 1, 2006.
    "SUMMARY ANALYSIS
    Section 790.11, F.S., currently prohibits persons from carrying any gun or firearm of any description within the limits of a national forest area (except during hunting season), without first obtaining a permit. Section 790.12,
    F.S. provides that the board of county commissioners of the county where such national forest area is located may grant a special permit for the carrying of firearms. Any person who violates any of the above provisions commits a second degree misdemeanor. In regards to state parks, Department of Environmental Protection Rule 62D-2.014(10), F.A.C., currently prohibits persons from using, carrying, or possessing firearms of any type in any state park unless used for authorized resource management. This bill repeals the statutes prohibiting persons from carrying firearms in national forests, authorizing special permits for the carrying of firearms in national forests, and providing penalties for violations. The bill also directs DEP to amend rule 62D-2.014(10) F.A.C., relating to the prohibition of possessing a firearm in state parks, to allow for the possession of weapons in compliance with all applicable Florida Statutes. The rule shall be amended to indicate that such weapons shall be at all times in the possession of a responsible party or properly secured within or to a vehicle or temporary housing, which includes motor homes, travel trailers,
    recreational vehicles, campers, tents, or other enclosed structures, while in state parks.
    This bill takes effect October 1, 2006."

    So now I go to the applicable DEP rule dated 6/2/2009.
    "(10) Hunting and Firearms. Hunting, trapping or the pursuit of wildlife is prohibited on all state park property, except in Reserves, as authorized by the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission. Weapons shall at all times be in possession of a responsible party or properly secured within or to a vehicle or temporary housing, which shall include motor homes, travel trailers, recreational vehicles, campers, tents, or other enclosed structures, while in state parks. Properly secured means the weapon shall be locked away and not accessible to minors, and if in a tent means the weapon shall be secured in a locked container. No person shall use or openly display in any state park weapons such as firearms of any type, air rifles, spring guns, cross bows, bows and arrows, gigs (except in areas where gigs may be legally used for saltwater fishing), sling shots, electronic weapons, devices which fire a dart or projectile, or any other forms of weapons or trapping devices potentially dangerous to wildlife or human safety except when such weapons or traps are used for resource management purposes as authorized in this subsection. Shooting weapons into park areas from beyond park boundaries is prohibited. The Division may authorize the control of nuisance animals and may remove all nuisance or exotic animals from parks by trapping and other necessary means for park resource management purposes. Such authorization shall be in the form of a letter of authorization, license, permit, or contract negotiated by the parties or made pursuant to an advertised bid by the Division. Authorization may be obtained in the same manner as stated in 62D-2.013(7), F.A.C., herein."

    So.. my argument is that the state DEP is not in compliance with all Florida statutes in regards to the possession of firearms and other weapns and asking for the immediate redress of DEP 62D-2.014(10).

    I need some help from hopefully an attorney in getting the legalese language correct in my letter. Can ANYONE help here?

    Reb
    American by birth, Southern by choice.

    Edit - added to beginning section explaining 790.053

  2. #2
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    The AG is relatively pro RKABA, i might go so far as to briefly mention what we are trying to do with the OC movement in Fl, it might just push this contradiction in our favor.
    If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  3. #3
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    I don't think it has to be too formal either. A department's "policy" is in violation of state law, so the restriction on OC seems to not have a leg to stand on.
    If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  4. #4
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    Reb,

    I'll cross post this to Florida Concealed Carry to an ongoing carry in parks thread. Here is a link:

    http://floridaconcealedcarry.com/For...ed=1#post68930

  5. #5
    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    Florida's main problem is that it has too many failed New York lawyers who brought 'New York' with 'em.

  6. #6
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Not so. The new yorkers and new jerseyites are all very old. They go to their retirement communities and lobby for socialist medicine.

    One problem is apathy. Massive numbers of neocons who love the government as long as it's a republican raping them. OC was also outlawed long ago because of racism. After the civil war, whites didn't want the African Americanes armed. That set the precedent, now we're all under this tyranny.
    If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  7. #7
    Regular Member rodbender's Avatar
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    77zach wrote:
    Not so. The new yorkers and new jerseyites are all very old. They go to their retirement communities and lobby for socialist medicine.

    One problem is apathy. Massive numbers of neocons who love the government as long as it's a republican raping them. OC was also outlawed long ago because of racism. After the civil war, whites didn't want the African Americanes armed. That set the precedent, now we're all under this tyranny.
    Yeah, Texas did the same thing.
    The thing about common sense is....it ain't too common.
    Will Rogers

  8. #8
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    aargh.* for some reason my lengthy post didnt post....

    Rebel,
    I completely agree with your argument.* I had a similar issue with my city of residence.* In 1971, the City of Sarasota banned the concealed carry of all weapons (though left open carry alone).* In 1987, the State of Florida preemted virtually all firearms regulations via the Joe Carlucci Uniform Firearms Act.* The city either unwillingly or unknowingly did not adapt their regulation to reflect the change.*

    About 4 weeks ago, I wrote the City of Sarasota Commission informing them of this issue and today I was provided a copy of the proposed ordinance to completely repeal the city ordinance.* In about 3 weeks it will be voted on.* I am unaware of any opposition from the commissioners.

    The DEP issue is rather similar.* As its regulations are not written by the State Legislature, but (I do believe) rather a committee, writing a letter/email or making phone calls may get the discrepancy you spoke of resolved in a relatively short time.
    *

    Section 790.33 as quoted below provides preemtion of firearms regulations to the state legislature, with an exception:

    (1)**PREEMPTION.--Except as expressly provided by general law, the Legislature hereby declares that it is occupying the whole field of regulation of firearms and ammunition...

    Section 790.25(3) provides the hunting/fishing/camping exception and section 790.25(4) provides supercedence over any conflict in regulations.

    So, assuming the DEP is contacted regarding the issue of "openly displaying" a firearm, they may retort with the DEP's F.A.C. 62D-2.015(10),* which cites that their rulemaking authority lies within chapter 258.007 and 258.008.* this is true, but doesnt (shouldn't) supercede section 790.25(3) and 790.25(4). They also may retort with the quote from 790.33, but that is superceded by 790.25(3)

    So, with 790.25 and HB 1029c, there seems to be a rather airtight arguement to have the DEP change their policy.* Rebel, PM me so we can get something drafted



    whew... all of this convoluted Floridian legislation is making my head hurt.* good night

    Edited for clarity

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