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Thread: Firestone OC meetup - Sep 27

  1. #1
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    Hey all,

    I'm working on another OC Dinner in Firestone. September 27, earlyish evening/lateish afternoon. The place I'm looking at has a "Kids eat free" night then.


    Teddy B, Carguy, Dynamite Rabbit, I'm pointedly looking your direction.

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    We're in!

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    I'm in and will try to gather a few more

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    Ok, let me know how many so I can make sure we have enough space. I'm going on a scouting visit this w/e.

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    Four here -- two adults, two kids. Thanks for setting this up!

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    I recently moved to BlackHawk from Texas anyway Id like to attend for sure =]

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    Sure,I'm all forpeople coming into town to support local business. That goes for you Lovelanders, too. Once Trigger Time opens at 119&I-25 some of these OC-friendly places will be useful info.



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    I will be there.

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    Ok, let's say 5:00, this Sundayat Parrot's Sports Grille in the King Soopers shopping center at 119 and CR 13. That's basically next door to where we did it last time.

    Carguy, how many are you bringing?

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    See y'all then!

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    Well it appears a few folk are still a little nervous about drawing attention to themselves. So it will be just two of us. See you at five.

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    I had similar conversations with several neighbours I invited. Though one said "I'm glad to see the revolution starting!" Also, had to point out SB2099 fears as a hoax.

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    mahkagarithanks for initiating a great evening. Great to meet all, hope to do this again soon

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    carguy wrote:
    mahkagarithanks for initiating a great evening. Great to meet all, hope to do this again soon
    DITTO !!!:celebrate:celebrate

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    Thanks to all who came! I'm worn out from smiling! So glad the staff was happy to have our business and feed us well. Definitely support these guys because they support us!

    FYI, here are links to the municipal code. I don't see any reference to requirementto conceal.This is the town's site:

    http://www.ci.firestone.co.us/

    The municipal code from that page goes to:

    http://www.colocode.com/firestone.html

    The relevant section is at:

    http://www.colocode.com/firestone/firestone_09.pdf

    Got a great picture of everyone having a good time, but this computer won't upload to the site. I'll need to load from a different one.

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    Awesome time! Nice to meet friends, old and new, and one in blue.

    Thanks for the legwork, mahkagari. Much appreciated.

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    Meeting for dinner with you good folks was a joy. Later, I got to thinking:

    The visit by the police officer was more serious a thing than it may have seemed at the time. Encarta Dictionary’s definition of “Infringe” is: “encroach on somebody’s rights. . . especially in a minor or gradual way.” By approaching us, the officer did infringe our RKBA and, at the same time, she did infringe the right of The People guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution and she “called into question [our] right. . .” guaranteed by the Constitution of The State of Colorado. This encroachment might have been seen as necessary or legitimate if the officer had a reasonable articulable suspicion that a crime had been committed, was being committed, or was about to be committed (RAS), but, in this instance, as far as I know, she had none.

    Now, if this seems like just a technical thing or nitpicking or the ranting of a fanatic, let us think about the effect that the actions of the Loveland officers against me on October 7, 2008 had on my former barber. Having heard about that incident, he banned my OCing into his shop because, in his words, “I don’t want some cop coming in here throwing a hissy.”

    In last night’s incident, what effect might the officer’s appearance to check us out[/i] have had on the other customers present, the staff, and/or the management of the restaurant or on the management’s thinking about not wanting trouble with the cops, or the possibility of losing customers for fear that some customers may get nervous about the presence of cops? Might we soon see a “No Guns Allowed” sign on the front door?

    Also, had it not been for the quick and clear thinking of Mahkagari and Carguy, and the calm eloquence with which they addressed the officer, her encroachment would, no doubt, have been worse.

    We still have much work to do, OCers.

    I hope to see many of you at the Apple Event in Loveland on Wed., October 7. This old fanatic needs your support.



    Thanks,

    Bill

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    Nitpicking, yes, but not quite a rant. And there are lots of fanatics in here. :PThis is a rant:

    IMO, the LEO was doing her job. There were some parts of it she didn't do particularly well, but she's doing the job that I as a tax payer in Firestone pay her to do. We can wax philospohically and technically on the finer points of whether an officiant of the government "oppressed" us, but the fact of the matter is the government doesn't do anything the populace doesn't allow them to, if only by inaction.

    The only reason the LEO was there was because a sheeple made the call. I'm not going to blame the LEO for trying to do her job. I'll blame her for the ways she could have done it better, but the large part of the blame rests on the person who made the call because a table full of families, half of which were kids, half of the rest being mothers, one of whom was breastfeedingwas so intimidating because of a few holstered firearms that they had to run out of the restaurant and call the police.

    In the case of your barber, I'm not going to blame the "copwho would throw a hissy". I'm going to blame your barber for, for lack of a better word, punking out and not defending the rights of his customers. I have the same fight with myself. When I hear myself saying "I just don't want to deal with 'constant vigilance' today" I retort to myself "Then you're rolling over and letting the other side, whoever they may be, creep that much closer".

    I'd like to know what the call and dispatch was like. Can someone tell me how to do that? I missed the sheeplewho made the call whileminding my kids and having a good time with everyone. I am curious if he stayed and ate first before making the call and leaving.

    "In last night’s incident, what effect might the officer’s appearance to check us out have had on the other customers present, the staff, and/or the management of the restaurant or on the management’s thinking about not wanting trouble with the cops, or the possibility of losing customers for fear that some customers may get nervous about the presence of cops? Might we soon see a “No Guns Allowed” sign on the front door?"

    I don't care. I refuse to give law enforcement or the government that power. I refuse to contribute to the energy of fear of a government even the slightest bit by entertaining the notion that they CAN. Again, the government only has as much power as we allow them. Kvetching aboutthe minutest things the government might have on us is largely ******* into the wind when compared against having the support of the people.

    If the restaurant management is going to ban guns because a cop showed upor the threat oflosing customers due to uneasiness, then they would have done itfrom OCing making people nervous at all. I do not choose to spend my time worrying about what impression the LEOgave. That kind of sheeple mentality doesn't need LEO presence to be herded into giving up rights. They're on the verge of doing so and asneeze will be push them over the edge.I'd wager if it weren't for your unfortunate encounter, your barber would have only needed a couple of other customers to say they were nervous to ask you notto OC.

    Instead, IMO, what happened last nightis almost precisely how it should happen. The establishment was happy to have us as people and customers. They recognized us as just another big table on a Sunday night that they needed to take care of to retain customers in a tough economy. A sheeple got nervous and decided it wasn't the place for him. Good for him. We didn't want him around anyway and the world's big enough for all kinds. A LEO responded to the call and checked in with the staff. (Unfortunately not very thoroughly.) She contacted us to make sure there wasn't anything that she oughtn't overlook. (Unfortunatley she got a bit overzealous.) When it was clear that management had no problem with us on their private propery and that we weren't breaking any laws, she went on her way.

    It's also worth noting that itappeared the woman I'd cleared our gathering with was a bit annoyed that the LEO had harrassed some of her customers. She came over personally to say she had no problem with us after the LEO contact. I didn't notice more than 1 or 2 people even notice us during the encounter, but admittedly I wasn't being my most observant.

    So, what effect might the LEO's presence have had? The people got to see a sheeple leave their environment, the restaurant supported good paying customers responsibly exercising their rights, a LEO came and gave us a minimal amount of grief, and then was sent on her way. Hell, I'm not sure anyone even noticed the LEO what with the game going on! Anyone wondering whether OC is legal and practical (such asmy neighbour who attended) had pretty much any question answered.The LEO will have some re-education and hell, being a small town may even be a patron of the restaurant and we all get along better. That is what SHOULD happen! I'm calling that a victory!

    Thank you for your compliment on "calm eloquence". However, as this being one of my first encounters like this I think my heart was going toburst throughmy ears and I believe I was gripping my chair and the table to keep my hands from shaking. I'm giving huge thanks to Carguy for his experienced support.I alsogive major thanks to the establishment. Without their clear support of us being there, thingscould have been much more cagey.

    I do want tobring upone topic, that being the response to the "what group are you with" question. IMO, I don't need to be affiliated with a"group" toenjoy my rights. Half the people therelast nightaren't onOCDO.Several of us do hang out hereon this great social networking site. As I said to the LEO, we were a bunch of friends and neigbors out having dinner. (I think I said that. )Y'all are a great group of people, but if someone asks me for my credential tocarry, I don't pull out any OCDO membership card.


  19. #19
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    Encarta Dictionary’s definition of “Infringe” is: “encroach on somebody’s rights. . . especially in a minor or gradual way.” (Emphesis mine)
    Dispatcher or officer: "And, what are the armed people doing with their guns?"

    This is important. We must not accept the infringing of our RKBA.

    I do respect your opinions about the sheeple and the responsibility that all must take. But, we must see as a threat to our American ideals suchpolicies and procedures that call our public servants to infringe our rights. If a little bit had been acceptable to the Founders, I don't think they would have used "infringed."

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    I agree, but again since the establisment supported us, we didn't get bullied about forking over IDs, there was no cadre of backup storming the place,I'm calling it a victory over any attempted encroachment or enfringment.The next MWAG this LEO gets or possibly the full of the local PD, will have some hue of "Dispatch better not be wasting my time with this one again."

  21. #21
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    I think we see eye-to-eye. It may be that we have been, to some extent, "talking past each other" as they used to say.

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    My wife taught me to say "talking past eachother" to keep discussions on track. Apparently they still say it in South Africa.

    It was an interesting coincidence that two people associated with the group last night had their opinions on gunseffected by growing up in countries of "guerilla warfare, hijacking, and bombs".

  23. #23
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    "talking past eachother" to keep discussions on track
    Hmmm. Interesting. I think there is a little different meaning in the two usages. As I learned it it meant that two people, although they agreed, were talking about two different aspects of the topic being discussed so that they did not realize that they agreed. (Or something like that) Does that make sense? :?

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    I guess I felt relieved that we weren't asked to leave or asked to take our guns outside. I understand, Bill, where you're coming from, though. I do think it was probably educational for the caller, and possibly others watching.

    I noticed quite a few stares from the crowd when we were sitting down and for a few minutes thereafter. One guy sitting behind Bill kept looking our way -- I think he was watching the TV behind us, but he definitely saw the guns on his side of the table. It'd be very interesting to know who called. I didn't really see anyone watching when she was standing there talking to you guys -- thought that might be a clue.

    Glad the gal in blue talked to you and carguy, mahkagari. And I'm especially glad you'd made prior arrangements (and that the gal you talked to was there)!

    I searched the city code, and there's clearly nothing about open carry. Amazing what LEOs come up with, isn't it?

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    opencarrybilly wrote:
    "talking past eachother" to keep discussions on track
    As I learned it it meant that two people, although they agreed, were talking about two different aspects of the topic being discussed so that they did not realize that they agreed.
    Yeah, same usage. If a discussion starts to be too much about trying to convince the other of something you don't disagree on.

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