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Thread: Discrimination

  1. #1
    Regular Member Springfield Smitty's Avatar
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    This has been bugging me for long enough and I wanna get if off my chest.

    Would a business get away with prohibiting whites, blacks, hispanics, women, men,sodomites, muslims, jews, christians, etc. from their busines?

    I'm sure in today's world they would be facing one heck of a lawsuit and some very bad PR if they did so.

    Our rights are actually protected under the Constitution of the United States, unlike those of the sodomites. Why do we as firearms owners allow them to get away with treating us like second class citizens?
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    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    I guess you could call the ACLU and see if they are willing to take up the fight.

    P.S. I agree with you for what it's worth.

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    Regular Member Springfield Smitty's Avatar
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    LOL. I would not call the ACLU for assistance in any matter. I dispise the organization for their assistance of homosexuals.This is in no way a right granted by our Constitution and the courts need to leave it alone. Anyway, that is another topic all together.

    I am in no way trying to be rude to you for your suggestion though. Someone may decide to do that, although I think they (the ACLU) would be more inclined to try and ban firearm ownership because it "offends" some people.
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    I also agree with you. All the people that say we cant come into the Store/Home with our tools are profileling,And it is a bunch of crap. I also think that people that say we cant be there have little to no common sence at all,A Law abidding citizen will walk out with out a problem,A Badguy will walk and and shoot everyone that guess wha DON`T HAVE A GUN,Most people with guns aren`t bad. But they have there head so far are there cracks they don`t have enough strength to pull them back out. STOP GETTING YOUR PANTIES IN A BUNCH,AND QUIT PROFILEING AGAINGST US WE ARE EXERCISING OUR RIGHTS

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    Gun owner/carrier is not a protected class of citizen under Federal law (Race, color, religion, sex, sexual preference - those are protected.).

    I understand what you're saying - but you'll have to remember - the Constitution/Bill of Rights don't grant anything, they just recognize pre-existing rights of particular importance.

    And by the way - I personally support an individual's right to be homosexual. It in NO fashion affects my quality of life.

    Regulating what kind of sexual preference is legal/illegal is another of those "crimes against humanity" BS that should NEVER be touched by the Government. Joe and Bob getting married doesn't prevent my right to marry my woman of choice.

    This is just like the war on drugs - Were they legal all along we'd have never had the cartels that exist today, and we'd have stoners in basements just like we do today. If my neighbor wants to get high and watch trippy movies on TV, that doesn't affect my quality of life.

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    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    The protected class' of citizen under Federal law are race, color, religion, sex, sexual preference and they all got that way with the help of the ACLU.

    Which is why I posted that but yeah.... I know they suck as far as guns go.

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    zigziggityzoo wrote:
    This is just like the war on drugs - Were they legal all along we'd have never had the cartels that exist today, and we'd have stoners in basements just like we do today. If my neighbor wants to get high and watch trippy movies on TV, that doesn't affect my quality of life.
    During the prohibition of alcohol during the 1920's, there were more underground bar's (speakeasy's) in the US than there are legal bars right now without prohibition.

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    Regular Member Springfield Smitty's Avatar
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    I was not aware thatsodomites wereactually protected under federal law. I know there were some attempts and lawsuits, but was not aware that they succeeded.

    In my opinion, all law must / should be based on the Constitution. If this was / isthe standard, then sodomy should be ignored as far as the law is concerned.
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    So what if carrying a gun is part of, or is your religion are you protected then. It sounds kind of silly but why not everything else has a religion.

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    Reverend Cabman...get a religion started that requires followers to carry! Then I might love thy god...

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    I understand what you mean. I feel like I'm being treated unfairly because of my choice to defend myself, family, friends and/or state when I go to places that disallow firearms.


    @T Vance, Not all religions revolve around worshipping a god.

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    ethernetweb wrote:
    @T Vance, Not all religions revolve around worshipping a god.
    I know. I had to take a class on Religion a few years ago at college. I was making a joke. Plus cabman's gonna start a religion where you worship the "gun"...right Cabman?

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    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Generally, "discrimination" refers to treatment taken toward or against a person of a certain group that is taken in consideration based on class or category, and "Illegal" or "Unethical" concerns treatment based upon a categorization which a person can't change. For example, can I ethically prohibit people who drive Toyotas from shopping in my store? Yes, because they could choose to drive something else. Is it illegal or unethical discrimination to prohibit a Native American from shopping in my store? Yes, because they can't change the fact that they are Native American. Now, I know that the religion to which one chooses to adhere is "changeable", but legislators have typically found it intrinsically detestable to ask one to change their core religious beliefs to suit a shopkeeper.

    The question is often asked if homosexuals can be ethically/legally discriminated against. Ethically, I guess it depends on how one views the practice: if it's something one chooses, then yes, it would appear that ethically one could discriminate against the practice. However, society's views are changing and as more people consider homosexuality as something one is born to practice, I think you will see a bigger push to include homosexuals in the list of legally protected classes.

    As long as one can choose to carry a firearm (or not), I think gun owners will continue to be legally and ethically discriminated against (not my choice, but not unethical either). However, if we can normalize the carrying of firearms, I think people will increasingly consider that gun owners are law abiding citizens and the issue will become very minor.
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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    On the subject of "sodomites" (homosexuals and what not), I'm of the opinion that they ARE Constitutionally protected. All men, afterall, are created equal. Women too, of course.

    Put simply, as long as someone's lifestyle does not endanger the life, liberty, or pursuit of happiness off anyone else; then the Constitution protects their liberties. Being homosexual is not cause to deny them freedoms and liberties. They have the same rights as the rest of us.

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    Regular Member Springfield Smitty's Avatar
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    I respectfully disagree. According to my Bible, they were not created that way. They made a conscious decision to be that way.Now, I know thisbecomes a religious debate when it comes to that, but one cannot say for certainthat they are created that way either.
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    Springfield Smitty wrote:
    I respectfully disagree. According to my Bible, they were not created that way. They made a conscious decision to be that way.Now, I know thisbecomes a religious debate when it comes to that, but one cannot say for certainthat they are created that way either.
    The problem is this: Your Bible does not dictate the laws of man. It dictates your religion, sure... but our Constitution, in America, overrules any Bible.

    Understanding that our nation was built upon traditional Catholic/Christian principles, our Forefathers were also very careful not to impose said principles on those who choose not to adopt the religion itself.

    Show me where the Constitution says that homosexuals are less deserving of rights than anyone else, and I'll concede my argument. I'd even settle for a reference, in the Constitution, to a particular Biblical passage that supports the notion. In the absence of either reference, then it stands that the Constitution protects ALL people, regardless of race, nationality, RELIGION, sex, sexual orientation, etc, etc. We are all endowed with the same rights and no religion can take that away from anyone.

    Please don't confuse personal beliefs with Constitutional principles. They are often very different. Personally, I don't agree with many things some American's do.. but I support their right to do it as long as they are not endangering the lives, liberties, or pursuit of happiness of others. Personally, I don't have an issue with the gay or lesbian community... it's not a lifestyle choice that I, particularly, would adopt... but I more than welcome their choice to do so. I'm also of the school of thought that they don't CHOOSE to be homosexual, but that they are born to be that way. I can't fathom why someone would choose to pursue a lifestyle that, for many years (and in many cases, still occurs in America) is very hostile to their being. I don't believe anyone wakes up one day and says, "Gee, I think I'll be gay today." I think it's something their born with. I see no problem with it either way. People are people... nobody is less human simply because they don't conform to traditional social norms.

    And on the subject of traditional social norms, homosexuality is nothing new. Many cultures have engaged in it for many years. There's actually some controversy over whether or not some of our Forefathers may have been homosexual. Former President Lincoln, in fact, is widely believed to have been "in the closet". Some cultures embrace it, others merely tolerate it, while still others are extremely hostile towards it. In every continent on the globe, and through ever era in history, homosexuality exists. It even exists in nature. Do you aim to tell me that animals that mate for purposes OTHER than pleasure CHOOSE to be gay? Or is it more likely that some of them are just wired to be that way? My money is on the latter.

    Opinions are like buttholes... we all have them. But I beseech you to be wary of the fact that anything you say here can, and will, be used against the rest of us. Many folks already peg 2A activists as "rednecks", extreme right-wingers, and intolerant bigots. Please don't allow that stereotype to proliferate.

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    Michigan Moderator DrTodd's Avatar
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    Although I always like a good debate... remember this is an OC forum and I think it would be better served to discuss this elsewhere...

    My .02...
    Giving up our liberties for safety is the one sure way to let the violent among us win.

    "Though defensive violence will always be a 'sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." -Saint Augustine

    Disclaimer I am not a lawyer! Please do not consider anything you read from me to be legal advice.

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    Regular Member Springfield Smitty's Avatar
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    I agree that this conversation should be had elsewhere. PM sent to Veritas.
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    I am not an attorney. None of my statements should be accepted, nor are they intended to be offered, as legal advice or fact of law.

  19. #19
    Regular Member Springfield Smitty's Avatar
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    Veritas wrote:
    Opinions are like buttholes... we all have them. But I beseech you to be wary of the fact that anything you say here can, and will, be used against the rest of us. Many folks already peg 2A activists as "rednecks", extreme right-wingers, and intolerant bigots. Please don't allow that stereotype to proliferate.
    I absolutely agree and hope others will heed this advice.
    -U.S. Army Veteran (2002-2005) 11BVB4 (Infantry, Airborne, Ranger, some other stuff) SGT (E-5)
    -Public Service Professional - I've done it all: LEO, FF, and EMT
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    I am not an attorney. None of my statements should be accepted, nor are they intended to be offered, as legal advice or fact of law.

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    Springfield Smitty wrote:
    I respectfully disagree. According to my Bible, they were not created that way. They made a conscious decision to be that way.Now, I know thisbecomes a religious debate when it comes to that, but one cannot say for certainthat they are created that way either.
    I wouldn't know because I am not a homosexual, but from the people I have known throughout my life that are gay, they did not CHOOSE to be that way. They simply felt an attraction forpeople of thesame sex.

    In no way does it interfere with my life, and I wouldn't want ANYONE telling me who I should have to marry, so I think that homosexuals should be able to marry whom ever they want. JMO...

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    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    Springfield Smitty wrote:
    Veritas wrote:
    Opinions are like buttholes... we all have them. But I beseech you to be wary of the fact that anything you say here can, and will, be used against the rest of us. Many folks already peg 2A activists as "rednecks", extreme right-wingers, and intolerant bigots. Please don't allow that stereotype to proliferate.
    I absolutely agree and hope others will heed this advice.
    Yes, please. Let's keep the bible(s)out of the forum, will ya guys? After all,OCDO is a respectable place.



    OK, OK...the Shooter's Bible is OK....

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    Agreed. Moving on. :-)

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    Just a sec, I'm not ready to move on yet. Hank T, just why do you think mentioning the Bible isn't a respectable thing to do on OCDO? I find that something that makes me go...hmmmm.

    Exodus 22:2 If a thief be found breaking up, and be smitten that he die, there shall no blood be shed for him.
    Castle doctrine.

    St.Luke 22:36 Then he said onto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his script: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
    Self defense.

    If this offends anyone, you don't have to read it.springerdave.

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    I'm not religious, pe se... but I do believe that many Holy Books teach many of the same principles. And at the end of the day, I can't say that I disagree with most of them. However, I view Holy Books as a sort of "philosophical law"... the social guidelines that we all, for the most part, should live by. I believe many of the stories are simply personifications of this ideology. Story telling is the easiest manner in which to instil morals in people. While I believe in many of the principles (not all), I don't necessarily believe in many of the stories.

    It's my humble opinion that organized religion has become too political... to the point that the fundemental messages are often lost and take a backseat to other interests.

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