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Thread: NY Trooper who fatally shot driver acted in self-defense

  1. #1
    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    It certainly is clear thatthis fellow Barraco was a bad guy intent on getting away from a cop at any cost--even if he had to assault the cop.

    But what catches my interest is that a couple of brave citizens took it upon themselves to chase and tackle the fleeing felon.

    No guns were required by the citizens to help end the threat. Good for them!





    Cops: Trooper who fatally shot driver acted in self-defense

    September 14, 2009 By PATRICK WHITTLE

    The state trooper who shot and killed a driver on the Robert MosesCauseway Sunday acted in self-defense after the man took the trooper's police baton and used it to hit the trooper several times in the face and head, state police said in a statement Monday.

    Police identified the driver as Steven Barraco, 42, of Deer Park, and the trooper as a five-year member of the State Police.

    The altercation between Barraco and the trooper, 29, began after the trooper observed Barraco making an illegal u-turn over a median on the causeway, Maj. Walter Heesch said in a statement.

    Barraco then drove through a stop sign and accelerated to more than 100 mph as the trooper began pursuit, Heesch said.

    The trooper chased Barraco for about 3.25 miles before Barraco ditched his vehicle on a traffic median and attempted to flee on foot, Heesch said. A "violent struggle," in which Barraco was able to get control of the trooper's police baton, ensued after the trooper pursued Barraco on foot, Heesch said.

    "Barraco got on top of the Trooper and continued to strike the Trooper on the head with the baton," Heesch's statement said. "The Trooper is able to draw his Glock .45 caliber handgun and fired one round which struck Barraco in his upper body."

    The trooper, who was later treated and released from a hospital, lost consciousness as the wounded Barraco attempted to flee on foot, Heesch said. Two motorists tackled and subdued Barraco not far from the scene until more police and emergency service workers could arrive, Heesch said.

    Barraco was pronounced dead at the scene, Heesch said. Barraco, whose license was suspended at the time, had a small amount of marijuana in his car, he said.

    The case remains under investigation, Heesch's statement read.

    http://www.newsday.com/long-island/s...ense-1.1446437

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    Campaign Veteran ak56's Avatar
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    HankT wrote:
    No guns were required by the citizens to help end the threat. Good for them!



    ... "The Trooper is able to draw his Glock .45 caliber handgun and fired one round which struck Barraco in his upper body."

    ...Barraco was pronounced dead at the scene,
    True, no guns were required by the citizens in this case, but Barraco had already been fatally shot by the trooper.

    I'm not going to rely on this if I have to defend myself.
    No right is held more sacred, or is more carefully guarded, by the common law than the right of every individual to the possession and control of his own person, free from all restraint or interference of others, unless by clear and unquestionable authority of law. Union Pacific Rail Co. vs Botsford as quoted in Terry v Ohio.


    Talk to your cats about catnip - before it's too late.

  3. #3
    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    ak56 wrote:
    HankT wrote:
    No guns were required by the citizens to help end the threat. Good for them!



    ... "The Trooper is able to draw his Glock .45 caliber handgun and fired one round which struck Barraco in his upper body."

    ...Barraco was pronounced dead at the scene,
    True, no guns were required by the citizens in this case, but Barraco had already been fatally shot by the trooper.

    I'm not going to rely on this if I have to defend myself.
    If you saw thisBarracoguy running away from the scene of some crime and you just happened to not have your gun with you--would you run after him and tackle him?



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    Regular Member buster81's Avatar
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    HankT wrote:
    ak56 wrote:
    HankT wrote:
    No guns were required by the citizens to help end the threat. Good for them!



    ... "The Trooper is able to draw his Glock .45 caliber handgun and fired one round which struck Barraco in his upper body."

    ...Barraco was pronounced dead at the scene,
    True, no guns were required by the citizens in this case, but Barraco had already been fatally shot by the trooper.

    I'm not going to rely on this if I have to defend myself.
    If you saw thisBarracoguy running away from the scene of some crime and you just happened to not have your gun with you--would you run after him and tackle him?

    Not unless I had yoursuper ninja fighting skills.

  5. #5
    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    buster81 wrote:
    HankT wrote:
    If you saw thisBarracoguy running away from the scene of some crime and you just happened to not have your gun with you--would you run after him and tackle him?
    Not unless I had yoursuper ninja fighting skills.
    I don't have any super ninja fighting skills. But I can run after an unarmed guy and tackle him.

    Hell, anybody in reasonably good shape can at least try to do it. If one has the situational awareness, of course.

    In that regard, this case reminds me of the Cali teen who attacked a school with a bomb. Bunch of teachers just ran over and tackled him.

    No guns were needed to stop the threat in that instance either. Buncha librul (anti-gunners for sho')teachers stopped the kid. Something to be learned from that.

    Here, buster, read it for yourself:

    Cali Teen Who Tried To Commit Columbine-Style Attack Wanted Revenge

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum60/30529.html



  6. #6
    Regular Member buster81's Avatar
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    HankT wrote:
    buster81 wrote:
    HankT wrote:
    If you saw thisBarracoguy running away from the scene of some crime and you just happened to not have your gun with you--would you run after him and tackle him?
    Not unless I had yoursuper ninja fighting skills.
    I don't have any super ninja fighting skills. But I can run after an unarmed guy and tackle him.

    Hell, anybody in reasonably good shape can at least try to do it. If one has the situational awareness, of course.

    In that regard, this case reminds me of the Cali teen who attacked a school with a bomb. Bunch of teachers just ran over and tackled him.

    No guns were needed to stop the threat in that instance either. Buncha librul (anti-gunners for sho')teachers stopped the kid. Something to be learned from that.

    Here, buster, read it for yourself:

    Cali Teen Who Tried To Commit Columbine-Style Attack Wanted Revenge

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum60/30529.html
    No.

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    buster81 wrote:
    HankT wrote:
    buster81 wrote:
    HankT wrote:
    If you saw thisBarracoguy running away from the scene of some crime and you just happened to not have your gun with you--would you run after him and tackle him?
    Not unless I had yoursuper ninja fighting skills.
    I don't have any super ninja fighting skills. But I can run after an unarmed guy and tackle him.

    Hell, anybody in reasonably good shape can at least try to do it. If one has the situational awareness, of course.

    In that regard, this case reminds me of the Cali teen who attacked a school with a bomb. Bunch of teachers just ran over and tackled him.

    No guns were needed to stop the threat in that instance either. Buncha librul (anti-gunners for sho')teachers stopped the kid. Something to be learned from that.

    Here, buster, read it for yourself:

    Cali Teen Who Tried To Commit Columbine-Style Attack Wanted Revenge

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum60/30529.html
    No.
    No, indeed. I am not being paid to 1) tackle guys with profusely bleeding gunshot wounds and catch whatever diseases they have or 2) get myself blown up.

    In those circumstances unarmed, I might 1) pace the bleeding guy at an inconspicuous distance and wait until he stops to call in his location (if he doubles back and chases me, I'd lead him right back to the police car and/or officer) and 2) try to put distance and low-fragmenting masses between him, me and my students.

    If armed, I probably wouldn't change much. 1) If my pacing wasn't so inconspicuous and I got turned on, I'd draw and shout to him that if he just would lay down, I would call him an ambulance and tell him to keep pressure on the wound that was bleeding the worst. Fire only if in fear of GBI or death. 2) I'd draw while taking and getting my students to cover, take a stab at talking him down, if all else fails, I would shoot (not at the bombs themselves) to get him to stop moving towards people and keep him isolated so if he triggers, the blast is suicidal only.

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    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    buster81 wrote:

    If you saw thisBarracoguy running away from the scene of some crime and you just happened to not have your gun with you--would you run after him and tackle him?



    Not unless I had yoursuper ninja fighting skills.
    Unfortunately... my cape was lost in the cleaners...

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    HankT doesn't want us to carry guns.

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    Regular Member buster81's Avatar
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    Tomahawk wrote:
    HankT doesn't want us to carry guns.
    There we have it. He doesn't need them, so neither do you.

  11. #11
    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    buster81 wrote:
    Tomahawk wrote:
    HankT doesn't want us to carry guns.
    There we have it. He doesn't need them, so neither do you.
    Thawk and buster...judge and jury for the gun/gun rights community....

    I carry a gun every day andbelieve the vast majority ofpeople in this country should do so, if they wish, because they have a natural right and personal responsibility to do so to protect themselves and their loved ones.

    I simply oppose stupid and/or unnecessary use of guns. I oppose goofs with a gun. and supportself-defense, including armed self-defense. That's because they aredestructive, hapless and injurious of my rights as a gun owner and gun carrier.

    I support and encourage legal and lawful gun ownership. My safe is full of them and I do shoot (most of) them.

    Dream on, Thawk and buster. Enjoy the fantasy world you live in....



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    Regular Member Superlite27's Avatar
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    HankT wrote:
    If you saw thisBarracoguy running away from the scene of some crime and you just happened to not have your gun with you--would you run after him and tackle him?

    you just happened to not have your gun with you

    Similar to: you just happened to not have your head with you, or you just happened to not have your heart with you.

    "just happened" to not have your gun with you. HA! You're making stuff up now. Might as well say "just happened to be snatched byrainbow colored aliens riding unicorns and tossed into a space travelling deuce-and-a-half and carted off to planet Gilgamesh".

    Both have about the same odds of happening.

  13. #13
    Regular Member Superlite27's Avatar
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    BTW:
    ... "The Trooper is able to draw his Glock .45 caliber handgun and fired one round which struck Barraco in his upper body."

    ...Barraco was pronounced dead at the scene,

    Sure did make him let go, huh? There's nothing like a .45 slug in the chest to make one think "Hmmmmm. Maybe I'll stop hitting this trooper with a stick and go for a nice little walk."


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    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    Superlite27 wrote:
    HankT wrote:
    If you saw thisBarracoguy running away from the scene of some crime and you just happened to not have your gun with you--would you run after him and tackle him?

    you just happened to not have your gun with you

    Similar to: you just happened to not have your head with you, or you just happened to not have your heart with you.

    "just happened" to not have your gun with you. HA! You're making stuff up now.
    No. It's a simple scenario. Being in a public place without a gun. Happens to all of us.

    The point is: what would you do without a gun...what could you do without a gun....vs. what do you do with a gun....

    This trooper case and the Cali school case indicate that threats can be stopped by good men and women who just run over and tackle an assailant.

    No gun was needed in these cases by the citizens who acted.

    That's informative--for those willing to be open-minded about it, that is.



  15. #15
    Regular Member Superlite27's Avatar
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    Happens to all of us.
    Big generalisation. Might happen to all of"you". Never happens to me.Not that I'm paranoid. I just view it like other items you have with you ALWAYS. Like pants.

    Do you ever leave the house without pants? Have you ever suddenlybeen in public and found yourself without pants? If youcan take the time to put on a pair of pants when you wake up, you can certainly take an extra three seconds and put on a holster. I can't remember the last time I have left the house without a gun. Nor can I remember the last time I left the house without pants.

    Amajority of people never leave their house without wearing pants, yet nobody accuses them of being modest.

    Why is it that when I state I never leave my house without my gun, people remark, "How paranoid!"?

    As far as the OP, If (that's a HUGE if. So huge it's nonexistent) IF, by some alternate reality, I didn't have a gun, I wouldn't go after the guy.

    I wouldn't go after him even though I always have a gun. Not only is it not my job, but HE HAD BEEN SHOT IN THE CHEST!

    Why should I endanger my life, when he, in all probability, is going to keel over in the next few minutes anyway?

    And LO' AN' BEHOLD! That's what happened!

    What if ol' Barraco would have pulled out a big ol' honkin' knife and stabbed you in your chest as you played hero, then KEELED OVER DEAD FROM BEING SHOT seconds later? Explain the rational for tackling a SOON TO BE DEAD GUY other than to give him the chance to kill you before he goes?

  16. #16
    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    Superlite27 wrote:
    What if ol' Barraco would have pulled out a big ol' honkin' knife and stabbed you in your chest as you played hero, then KEELED OVER DEAD FROM BEING SHOT seconds later? Explain the rational for tackling a SOON TO BE DEAD GUY other than to give him the chance to kill you before he goes?
    Uh....what a difference 39 minutes will do to one's rhetorical justifications...




    Superlite27 wrote:
    "just happened" to not have your gun with you. HA! You're making stuff up now. Might as well say "just happened to be snatched byrainbow colored aliens riding unicorns and tossed into a space travelling deuce-and-a-half and carted off to planet Gilgamesh".

    Both have about the same odds of happening.

  17. #17
    Regular Member buster81's Avatar
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    HankT wrote:
    buster81 wrote:
    Tomahawk wrote:
    HankT doesn't want us to carry guns.
    There we have it. He doesn't need them, so neither do you.
    Thawk and buster...judge and jury for the gun/gun rights community....

    I carry a gun every day andbelieve the vast majority ofpeople in this country should do so, if they wish, because they have a natural right and personal responsibility to do so to protect themselves and their loved ones.

    I simply oppose stupid and/or unnecessary use of guns. I oppose goofs with a gun. and supportself-defense, including armed self-defense. That's because they aredestructive, hapless and injurious of my rights as a gun owner and gun carrier.

    I support and encourage legal and lawful gun ownership. My safe is full of them and I do shoot (most of) them.

    Dream on, Thawk and buster. Enjoy the fantasy world you live in....

    At least in my fantasy world, we don't refer to ourselves in the third person.

    What would you say about this story if the officer had not shot the goof with a baton and he had beaten either the cop or one or both of the brave souls to death with it? I know what my postulate is for this event: It's a bad strategy to get beaten with a batonwhen you havea toolto protect yourself.

    You still miss the point that this event was concluded with theshooting. Since the goof was "pronounced dead at the scene," obviously he was bleeding out and would have ended up the same waywhether these twofellows jumped him or not.The only difference the two guys made was to alter the location of the goof's final breath. Of course, the media report could be wrong on one or a number of facts, in which case, the entire discussion ispointless... again.

    Here is another concept for you; lets get rid of the high speed chases for stupid things like "illegal" u-turns and this entire thing doesn't happen. Write us up a postulate for that.

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    Regular Member Superlite27's Avatar
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    HankT wrote:
    Superlite27 wrote:
    What if ol' Barraco would have pulled out a big ol' honkin' knife and stabbed you in your chest as you played hero, then KEELED OVER DEAD FROM BEING SHOT seconds later? Explain the rational for tackling a SOON TO BE DEAD GUY other than to give him the chance to kill you before he goes?
    Uh....what a difference 39 minutes will do to one's rhetorical justifications...




    Superlite27 wrote:
    "just happened" to not have your gun with you. HA! You're making stuff up now. Might as well say "just happened to be snatched byrainbow colored aliens riding unicorns and tossed into a space travelling deuce-and-a-half and carted off to planet Gilgamesh".

    Both have about the same odds of happening.
    Huh? 39 minutes? "rhetorical justifications"?

    English?

  19. #19
    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    Superlite27 wrote:
    HankT wrote:
    Superlite27 wrote:
    What if ol' Barraco would have pulled out a big ol' honkin' knife and stabbed you in your chest as you played hero, then KEELED OVER DEAD FROM BEING SHOT seconds later? Explain the rational for tackling a SOON TO BE DEAD GUY other than to give him the chance to kill you before he goes?
    Uh....what a difference 39 minutes will do to one's rhetorical justifications...




    Superlite27 wrote:
    "just happened" to not have your gun with you. HA! You're making stuff up now. Might as well say "just happened to be snatched byrainbow colored aliens riding unicorns and tossed into a space travelling deuce-and-a-half and carted off to planet Gilgamesh".

    Both have about the same odds of happening.
    Huh? 39 minutes? "rhetorical justifications"?

    English?
    Yes. Try it sometime...

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    murdered for making a "illegal turn"

    i wonder if there were no one taxing people for driving if this would've happened. or if this guy would've just made his u turn and continued with his life.

  21. #21
    Regular Member Superlite27's Avatar
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    murdered for making a "illegal turn"
    Did you intentionally skip the part where he wrestled the baton from the trooper (I'm sure the cop didn't hand it to him politely) and "hit the trooper several times in the face and head"?

    Or did youaccidentally miss that part?

    The way you phrased it made it seem as ifhappy little Barracowas only delivering some cookies to poor Gramma when the big, bad ol' trooper "murdered" the poor guy in cold blood for having the misfortune of having his car jump the median of it's own volition.

    Yeah. Stupid cop. What's he doing trying to pull people over for driving erratically?

    murdered for making a "illegal turn"
    I'm guessing he was shot for committing a felony assault on a police officer with the officer's own baton.

    Don't really see how you could get murdered for making an "illegal turn" out of it unless you completely missed the "hit the trooper several times in the face and head" thing.

    Now that I've brought this to your attention, how would you explain it?

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    no i didn't miss any of it.

    being a pirate is a dangerous job, some people don't like having their things stolen or being harassed or being threatened or victims of extortion scams... he took his anger out at the cop.

    if we had peace officers, and not "leos" this guy would be alive, and nothing would've happened. he turned around on a street, and went over the curb doing it. so ******* what. i've done it before, lots of people have done it before.

    bottom line, no cop around, no one gets hurt, no one dies, nothing is wrong, nothing happens... we have liberty...

    cop around... you might get taxed or killed for doing someone that never hurt anyone but a small group of people decided they could extort money out of you for doing.


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    HankT wrote:
    I carry a gun every day
    Maybe I missed a thread somewhere, but I think that's the first time I've ever heard you say you carry, Hank.

    But since you won't admit where you actually live, I guess it makes no sense to ask you if and how you managed to get a New Jersey permit.



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    he got it by going, oink oink oink

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    Regular Member compmanio365's Avatar
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    Oh look, JonnyB is back......

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