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OC & the DNR Plus, Should you give up your gun?

Brass Magnet

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Thought this applied as it seems sometimes LE doesn't have anything better to do than to bust people having a fish fry.



Speaking of his bust for possesion of pot:

”This was Florida; these cops drove by three meth labs and a dead hooker just to get there” -- Ron White
Of course Ron didn't say no when they asked to search his plane or his person.
 

Lammie

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, Wisconsin, USA
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From the U. S, Supreme Court decision in Terry v. Ohio. Draw your own conclusions.

In view of these facts, we cannot blind ourselves to the need for law enforcement officers to protect themselves and other prospective victims of violence in situations where they may lack probable cause for an arrest. When an officer is justified in believing that the individual whose suspicious behavior he is investigating at close range is armed and presently dangerous to the officer or to others, it would appear to be clearly unreasonable to deny the officer the power to take necessary measures to determine whether the person is in fact carrying a weapon and to neutralize the threat of physical harm.

emphasis mine.
 

Shotgun

Wisconsin Carry, Inc.
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HankT wrote:
This is an interesting situation. And an interesting assertion.

So, wardens have been shot at with a deadly weapon? I wonder by whom?

And you seem to endorse shooting at the heads ofcertain wardens.

Doesn't that violate the 4 Rules of Gun Safety or something?

Guns are not supposed to be for playing tricks making rhetorical arguments. Are they? Guns are not toys. Are they?

39.gif
1. All guns are always loaded.
2. Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy.
3. Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target.
4. Be sure of your target and what is beyond it.


Not to sound cold-blooded about it, but logically, if these are the "4 Rules of Gun Safety" to which you refer, it doesn't necessarily violate any of them. You are making the assumption that the shooter is unwilling to destroy what the muzzle is covering. If that is a correct assumption, I will concede that then, and only then, it to be a violation of Rule #2.
 

Brass Magnet

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Lammie wrote:
From the U. S, Supreme Court decision in Terry v. Ohio. Draw your own conclusions.

In view of these facts, we cannot blind ourselves to the need for law enforcement officers to protect themselves and other prospective victims of violence in situations where they may lack probable cause for an arrest. When an officer is justified in believing that the individual whose suspicious behavior [Oh, hunting is now suspicious]he is investigating at close range is armed and presently dangerous [presently dangerous to nearby game maybe]to the officer or to others, it would appear to be clearly unreasonable to deny the officer the power to take necessary measures to determine whether the person is in fact carrying a weapon and to neutralize the threat of physical harm.

emphasis mine.

Thanks, I will draw my own conclusions.;)

In any case, I've been annoyed by wardens on a few occasions but they never thought it necessary to part me from my firearms. Might have to do with the fact that when I see them I lean it up against a tree or whatever. It's not very easy to get your license out when you have a 12lb gun in your hand.

As for walking out of the woods after hours, I just make sure to have my gun unloaded. A bow might be a different story. I've had wardens waiting for me when I come out of the woods before. They gave me some crap about how they could write me up and I just told them "I'm not hunting, I'm walking out of the woods from way back and my guns unloaded".

I got stopped while fishing several times. One time it was really hot and I had my swimming trunks on so that I could take a dip every once in a while. Consequently, my wallet and license were in my pants back at the cabin. I told the warden I had a patrons license and that it was back at the cabin and asked if he'd like me to go get it but he said "nah, that's all right".

So, just like people and cops, there are good wardens and bad ones.

Wow, I just rambled on for paragraphs about useless stuff........sorry I'll leave it be at that.
 

Lammie

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, Wisconsin, USA
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Brass:

You bring up an interesting senario. I can find nothing in the hunting regulations or statutes that require a firearm to be unloaded after shooting hours.I know what you say is true. It has happened to me also. My incidents happened before amendment Article I Section 25 became constitutional law. I wonder if any members have had such an encounter after the 1998 season? The RKBA amendment gives us the right to carry loaded firearms 24/7 for any lawful purpose. Also if a person has a small game license or in your case a patrons license how could a warden prove that you weren't carrying the gun to shoot 'coons or varmints or for that matter for personal security while walking in the woods. I think in our cases we experienced an overzealous warden trying to flex his/her muscles.
 

Brass Magnet

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Lammie wrote:
Brass:

You bring up an interesting senario. I can find nothing in the hunting regulations or statutes that require a firearm to be unloaded after shooting hours.I know what you say is true. It has happened to me also. My incidents happened before amendment Article I Section 25 became constitutional law. I wonder if any members have had such an encounter after the 1998 season? The RKBA amendment gives us the right to carry loaded firearms 24/7 for any lawful purpose. Also if a person has a small game license or in your case a patrons license how could a warden prove that you weren't carrying the gun to shoot 'coons or varmints or for that matter for personal security while walking in the woods. I think in our cases we experienced an overzealous warden trying to flex his/her muscles.

My brother actually knows our local warden pretty well and when asked about this he pretty much said that as long as you aren't actually "Hunting" you can't really be cited for coming out of the woods too late. The local warden is a pretty good guy.

Basically, if they see you shoulder your gun or something while you are walking out they might try to nail you.

The same goes for walking down the road. You are perfectly fine walking down the road with a loaded gun as long as you aren't "Hunting" from the road.

The other thing I've been told is that you shouldn't get in trouble for carrying a gun to be used for any game that may be in season at a particular time. For instance, you could carry a 22 pistol with you when you go bow hunting if you'd like to shoot some squirrels as long as you have a small game license. As for the point you bring up about the state constitution, it would be interesting to know a wardens take on whether or not you could carry a pistol with a barrel less than 5.5" while bow hunting.

A few years back a friend and I were really into bow fishing for carp. There is this little pond/lake that literally had the road running right along it so we were shooting our bows of the road. A warden came by and asked us what we were doing with the fish. We said that we were bringing them back to my friends farm and putting them in the manure spreader. He said that was fine and he just wanted to make sure we weren't leaving them lay around. Afterwards we asked him about the legality of shooting a bow, while bow fishing, off the road. He didn't know but told us he didn't give a hoot. He called us back later and told us he couldn't find anything on it. IIRC, I have since done some research to find that it is indeed legal, while bowfishing.
 

J.Gleason

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Brass Magnet wrote:
Mystified at that reasoning, Palan sought out a legislative viewpoint, asking his state senator, Dale Schultz (R-Richland Center), whether a DNR warden in fact possessed any authority to take custody of a legal firearm, absent any probable cause.

Schultz retrieved an opinion from a senior staff attorney for the Wisconsin Legislative Council. The answer was vague, at best. Still, the attorney, Mark Patronsky, could find no blanket authority, except that arising from certain specifically defined statutory reasons.

"Within the scope of the constitutional prohibition of unreasonable searches and seizures, the courts have carved out authorization for law enforcement officers (such as conservation wardens) to take control of a firearm to protect the safety of the law enforcement officer," Patronsky wrote. "The officer, after further investigation and determination of a probable cause, may proceed to arrest the individual and seize the firearm."

Other situations in which a firearm might be seized included violations of various ammunitions and transporting regulations or the creation of a public nuisance.

The bottom line was, though, police needed some reason for the seizure.

"The statutes and administrative rules described in this memorandum, as well as a variety of other statutes and rules, do allow a warden to take a person's firearm for various reasons," he wrote.

Palan says that means a warden simply can't take a firearm without some probable cause.

"Nowhere in the hunters' education manual, nowhere in the instructors manual, nowhere in any state statutes that I can find, does it say you must hand over your firearm," he said. "Nowhere."
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f8f8f8"http://goldismoney.info/forums/archive/index.php/t-338702.html
It is hopeful that Mark Palan will be the guest speaker at the Appleton 25th Event
 

Stoney-Point

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Fond du Lac, Wisconsin, USA
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Brass Magnet wrote:
[snip]
A few years back a friend and I were really into bow fishing for carp. There is this little pond/lake that literally had the road running right along it so we were shooting our bows of the road. A warden came by and asked us what we were doing with the fish. We said that we were bringing them back to my friends farm and putting them in the manure spreader. He said that was fine and he just wanted to make sure we weren't leaving them lay around. Afterwards we asked him about the legality of shooting a bow, while bow fishing, off the road. He didn't know but told us he didn't give a hoot. He called us back later and told us he couldn't find anything on it. IIRC, I have since done some research to find that it is indeed legal, while bowfishing.

Since it is bow"fishing", it is not considered "hunting". There are no rules (other than common sense) that limit fishing from a road. Mostly bridges are the exception, where posted, that is.

There is a marsh not too for from me that has signs stating "No firearms or hunting allowed in the marsh"...but bowfishing is perfectly legal.
 

opusd2

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Oct 1, 2008
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Butt is in, Wisconsin, USA
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I once had the wonderful experience of a warden deer hunting on my posted land. When I approached him no knowing he was one, he pulled out his badge and proceeded to check the color of my blaze orange, check me for buckshot, the whole nine yards, and then as he slowly (and I mean SLOWLY!!) left my property, he continued hunting the entire way.

When I tried reporting it to the local office, I was told he had every right to be there as part of his duties and his carrying a shotgun was justified for whatever the damn reason was. I was so pissed off at the time I quit buying hunting licenses and hunting for a few years. I didn't pursue it at the time because I was much younger and unsure of my rights, but don't worry I remember the cock's name and have gotten back at him.

Anyway, now when hunting, I always unload my rifle at the end of the day but leave my sidearm loaded for self defense...
 

JimE

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Aug 4, 2009
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Madison, Wisconsin, USA
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Lammie wrote:
Brass:

You bring up an interesting senario. I can find nothing in the hunting regulations or statutes that require a firearm to be unloaded after shooting hours.I know what you say is true. It has happened to me also. My incidents happened before amendment Article I Section 25 became constitutional law. I wonder if any members have had such an encounter after the 1998 season? The RKBA amendment gives us the right to carry loaded firearms 24/7 for any lawful purpose. Also if a person has a small game license or in your case a patrons license how could a warden prove that you weren't carrying the gun to shoot 'coons or varmints or for that matter for personal security while walking in the woods. I think in our cases we experienced an overzealous warden trying to flex his/her muscles.
Minimum barrel length on a handgun for small game is 4". So if you carry a snubby, probably best not to play the 'coon hunting angle.
 

JG

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Jun 25, 2009
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Northern Ark.
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I got a Taurus Tracker 22 cal. with a 6 1/2 barrel. I wish i was younger and more steady, I would get a scope for it and hunt squirrels. :(
 
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