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Thread: Texas "gun run" on permits; open carry ban limits self-defense for folks stuck in

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    NOTE: I understand Pennsylvania has issue somthing like 600,000 permits to conceal - and PA is much smaller than Texas! I expect the Texas permit population to swell to over 1 million people within the next couple of years.

    And hey, if you live in Texas, sign the petition to legalize open carry! Nobody should have to wait for a permit to carry a gun openly!

    http://www.petitiononline.com/texasoc/petition.html

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    http://www.lubbockonline.com/stories...82262111.shtml


    Texas sees rush on concealed-gun license applications: Permits may top 400,000
    Bureau up to speed in processing through backlog
    By Enrique Rangel
    enrique.rangel@morris.com
    Since the early days of the Wild West in the 19th century, guns have been an integral part of the Texas culture. Yet it wasn't until the mid-1990s that the Legislature approved a bill that allows any Texan over 21 and with no criminal record to carry a concealed weapon.


    AUSTIN - Call it a gun run.


    Where most license holders live
    Most concealed-handgun license holders live in the Houston-Galveston-Beaumont area. These are the six leading counties.
    County License holders Percentage of all licensees
    Harris 50,836 15.52
    Montgomery 9,046 2.76
    Fort Bend 7,715 2.36
    Galveston 6,028 1.84
    Brazoria 5,923 1.81
    Jefferson 4,791 1.46
    Source: Texas Department of Public Safety
    Concealed-gun licenses in West Texas
    County License Percentage of Holders* all licensees
    Lubbock 3,695 1.13
    Randall 2,151 0.66
    Potter 1,156 0.35
    Gray 359 0.11
    Hutchinson 352 0.11
    Hale 311 0.09
    Moore 251 0.08
    Deaf Smith 194 0.06
    Gaines 187 0.06
    Terry 143 0.04
    Source: Texas Department of Public Safety
    *Numbers as of March 2009
    Conviction rates for license holders
    Former state Sen. Jerry Patterson, now the Texas land commissioner and the author of the 1997 concealed-handgun license bill, has maintained that people with concealed handgun licenses are law-abiding citizens. These are the convictions in the state for 2007, the last year for which such statistics are available. (The numbers reflect convictions only for those over 21.)
    Crime Total Convictions Percentage convictions for licensees
    Robbery 1,791 0 0
    Deadly conduct 1,432 15 1.04
    Sexual contact with a child 1,161 4 0.34
    Murder 371 2 0.54
    Murder of police or firefighter 58 0 0
    Source: Texas Department of Public Safety

    In the first half of this year, the Concealed Handgun Licensing Bureau at the Texas Department of Public Safety handled an average of 12,700 applications a month compared with 8,700 during the same period in 2008, a 46 percent increase.
    A healthy percentage of those applicants are from West Texas, particularly from Lubbock and Randall counties. Potter County, which has roughly the same population as Randall County, has a significantly lower number of residents with concealed-gun licenses.
    "The bureau hired more than 50 temporary employees to assist in alleviating the backlog," DPS spokeswoman Lisa Block said. "Thanks to those individuals, the bureau is now back to the point of entering new applications into the system as they arrive."
    Once the agency tallies all the concealed-gun licenses issued in the 2008-09 fiscal year, a Morris News Service analysis projects the number of license holders in the state will be more than 400,000. As of March 17 it was 327,560.
    With 3,695 and 2,151 license holders, respectively, Lubbock and Randall counties do not have as high a number as some other counties with about the same number of residents. But compared with the state as a whole, the two West Texas counties have a significantly higher percentage of licensees.
    "I am not surprised," said state Rep. David Swinford, who has a license to carry a concealed gun.
    "People are applying for licenses because they see a need for it," the Dumas Republican said. "We have so much distrust of Congress and the president about the right to bear arms."
    The number of applications is keeping pace with the surge of gun sales Texas and the rest of the country has seen since President Obama was elected in November, Swinford and others said.
    "This is also a reflection of what is happening where people live," said state Rep. Joe Heflin, D-Crosbyton, who also holds a concealed-handgun license. "In Lubbock and other communities there have been home invasions, robberies and other violent crimes. ... Law-abiding citizens want to feel secure."
    Texas behind states
    Despite the sharp increase in the number of Texas applications this year, there are other states with more concealed-handgun licenses, said Mike Stollenwerk, director and co-founder of OpenCarry.org, a Web site in northern Virginia that favors laws that would permit gun owners to display their firearms in public, the way uniformed law enforcement officers do.
    OpenCarry.org does not keep track of concealed-handgun license holders because many states make it difficult to obtain such information - in fact, Texas and about a dozen other states have recently passed laws that keep the names of license holders confidential.
    Records show Florida and Pennsylvania have a higher number of license holders than Texas.
    As of July 31, Florida had 763,781 license holders, according to the state's Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services - about twice as many as Texas.
    "Florida and Utah have a high number of license holders because they allow by-mail permits," said Stollenwerk. "It is very disappointing (that) Texas doesn't."
    The high numbers of licensees are hardly encouraging news for Marsha McCartney, president of the Dallas-based North Texas Chapter of the Brady Campaign, a nationwide organization that favors gun ownership restrictions.
    Like other gun control advocates, McCartney said she's concerned gun sales are booming in Texas, and applications for concealed-weapon licenses are keeping up with those sales.
    "I am concerned that some of those people are so frightened and are getting a gun," McCartney said in reference to news reports based on a perceived fear that Obama and Congress want to take people's guns away. "It is sad that there is so much misinformation out there."
    However, the sharp increase on applications for concealed-handgun licenses does not worry DPS Director Steve McCraw.
    The Legislature established strict guidelines that make it difficult for criminals and unfit applicants to get a concealed-handgun license, McCraw said.
    "These individuals are fully vetted to ensure that they don't have any links to crime, that they are who they say they are ... that is the key requirement," McCraw said. "So if a person has never been arrested, convicted, charged, the Legislature has made very clear, they are eligible for (the license).
    "The other part, are they proficient? ... They are not issued anything until they go through that particular process," McCraw said of the required firearm training. "So we have those elements along those lines, and I'm confident that at least we won't let criminals get their hands on it."



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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Here's a link to the article:

    http://www.lubbockonline.com/stories...82262111.shtml

    I have to say, after reading this:

    The high numbers of licensees is hardly encouraging news for Marsha McCartney, president of the Dallas-based North Texas Chapter of the Brady Campaign, a nationwide organization that favors gun ownership restrictions.

    Like other gun control advocates, McCartney said she's concerned gun sales are booming in Texas and applications for concealed-weapon licenses are keeping up with those sales.

    "I am concerned that some of those people are so frightened and are getting a gun," McCartney said in reference to recent news reports the proliferation of firearms is based on a perceived fear that Obama and Congress want to take people's guns away. "It is sad that there is so much misinformation out there."
    And of course, gun sales are conducted through FFL dealers, which must ensure that the sale is to a legally qualified person, and concealed weapon licenses are obviously only granted to those who meet the strict criteria for them, even higher than plain vanilla gun ownership.

    It astounds me to no end that these Brady Bunch folks keep up with their disingenuous claim that they are not opposed to gun ownership by law-abiding citizens. They issue their talking points, but their actions and every day speech such as this quote, clearly illustrate their true motive. How stressful it must be to live a constant lie.

    If the Brady Bunch were truly concerned with only keeping guns out of the hands of criminals, they should applaud legal gun sales (every gun sold legally is one less gun "on the street") and they should wildly embrace concealed weapon permits, since those folks are the cream of the crop of law-abiding citizens!

    TFred


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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    If anyone ever gets a chance to interview a Brady Bunch talking head, it would be a very interesting question to ask them:

    If a citizen has decided that they are going to buy a handgun, do you think it's a good idea for them to go get a concealed carry permit along with it?
    Oh I'd love to watch their eyes spin in their head as they chewed on that one...

    TFred


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    Mike wro
    snip...
    The high numbers of licensees are hardly encouraging news for Marsha McCartney, president of the Dallas-based North Texas Chapter of the Brady Campaign, a nationwide organization that favors gun ownership restrictions.
    Like other gun control advocates, McCartney said she's concerned gun sales are booming in Texas, and applications for concealed-weapon licenses are keeping up with those sales.
    "I am concerned that some of those people are so frightened and are getting a gun," McCartney said in reference to news reports based on a perceived fear that Obama and Congress want to take people's guns away. "It is sad that there is so much misinformation out there."
    However, the sharp increase on applications for concealed-handgun licenses does not worry DPS Director Steve McCraw.
    Quote of the Month from the Brady Bunch !

    Never thought that I would agree with them about anything, but alas I was mistaken.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    TFred wrote:
    If anyone ever gets a chance to interview a Brady Bunch talking head, it would be a very interesting question to ask them:

    If a citizen has decided that they are going to buy a handgun, do you think it's a good idea for them to go get a concealed carry permit along with it?
    Oh I'd love to watch their eyes spin in their head as they chewed on that one...

    TFred
    Like leading a horse to water, you can't make 'em drink..........w/o a brick or two.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    I was in San Antonio yesterday and while standing in line in a restaurant, spoke to a plain clothes LEO who was opencarrying. I just mentioned to him thatI wasfrom AZ but knowing that OC was illegal in TX, when I first saw him carrying I was slightly 'taken back' until I saw his badge hanging there by his firearm. He laughed and said he getsthat quite a bit, but was quick to point out to me that he was in total support ofOC becoming legal in Texas like it is in Arizona.

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    Grapeshot wrote:
    Mike wro
    snip...
    The high numbers of licensees are hardly encouraging news for Marsha McCartney, president of the Dallas-based North Texas Chapter of the Brady Campaign, a nationwide organization that favors gun ownership restrictions.
    Like other gun control advocates, McCartney said she's concerned gun sales are booming in Texas, and applications for concealed-weapon licenses are keeping up with those sales.
    "I am concerned that some of those people are so frightened and are getting a gun," McCartney said in reference to news reports based on a perceived fear that Obama and Congress want to take people's guns away. "It is sad that there is so much misinformation out there."
    However, the sharp increase on applications for concealed-handgun licenses does not worry DPS Director Steve McCraw.
    Quote of the Month from the Brady Bunch !

    Never thought that I would agree with them about anything, but alas I was mistaken.

    Yata hey
    If only they would stop creating it, maybe they wouldn't have to whine about it....
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
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    Mike wrote:
    NOTE: I understand Pennsylvania has issue somthing like 600,000 permits to conceal - and PA is much smaller than Texas! I expect the Texas permit population to swell to over 1 million people within the next couple of years.
    I don't.

    Texas has the most expensive, time-consuming, restrictive system out of all the shall-issue states. It is designed as a stumbling block to keep people from carrying.

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    KBCraig wrote:
    Mike wrote:
    NOTE: I understand Pennsylvania has issue somthing like 600,000 permits to conceal - and PA is much smaller than Texas! I expect the Texas permit population to swell to over 1 million people within the next couple of years.
    I don't.

    Texas has the most expensive, time-consuming, restrictive system out of all the shall-issue states. It is designed as a stumbling block to keep people from carrying.
    And we expected OC to succeed there?
    "The fourth man's dark, accusing song had scratched our comfort hard and long..."
    http://edhelper.com/poetry/The_Hangm...rice_Ogden.htm

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    "Be not intimidated ... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your Liberties by any pretense of Politeness, Delicacy, or Decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for Hypocrisy, Chicanery, and Cowardice." - John Adams

    Tyranny with Manners is still Tyranny.

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    KBCraig wrote:
    Mike wrote:
    NOTE: I understand Pennsylvania has issue somthing like 600,000 permits to conceal - and PA is much smaller than Texas! I expect the Texas permit population to swell to over 1 million people within the next couple of years.
    I don't.

    Texas has the most expensive, time-consuming, restrictive system out of all the shall-issue states. It is designed as a stumbling block to keep people from carrying.
    Yeah, the expense of getting a license is what keeps me from getting one. $140 for a license and average of $100 for the course is too much for this very low wage worker to handle. Every time I do have the money saved up something happens and I need to spend it on something else. $240 is too much for most people to do nowadays.

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    kingmonkey wrote:
    KBCraig wrote:
    Mike wrote:
    NOTE:* I understand Pennsylvania has issue somthing like 600,000 permits to conceal - and PA is much smaller than Texas!* I expect the Texas permit population to swell to over 1 million people within the next couple of years.
    I don't.

    Texas has the most expensive, time-consuming, restrictive system out of all the shall-issue states. It is designed as a stumbling block to keep people from carrying.
    Yeah, the expense of getting a license is what keeps me from getting one.* $140 for a license and average of $100 for the course is too much for this very low wage worker to handle.* Every time I do have the money saved up something happens and I need to spend it on something else.* $240 is too much for most people to do nowadays.*
    So much for Texas being a freer state. Guess I'll cross it off the possibles list until the RKBA (without privilege taxes) is reestablished there.

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    Mike wrote:
    NOTE: I understand Pennsylvania has issue somthing like 600,000 permits to conceal - and PA is much smaller than Texas! I expect the Texas permit population to swell to over 1 million people within the next couple of years.
    Part of the reason for that is the difference between TX and PA permit procedures. Mike, you've got a VA permit. Fee = $50, training requirement = "Know which end the bang comes out of", more or less. TX charges $120 for the permit, PLUS you have to have the officially-certified (aka expensive) training course. I've heard that can run a couple hundred dollars.

    PA's permit is $20. If you're a non-resident, include a copy of your home-state CHL. Training isn't required. Turnaround is a week, for mailed-in non-resident permits.

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    N6ATF wrote:
    kingmonkey wrote:
    KBCraig wrote:
    Mike wrote:
    NOTE: I understand Pennsylvania has issue somthing like 600,000 permits to conceal - and PA is much smaller than Texas! I expect the Texas permit population to swell to over 1 million people within the next couple of years.
    I don't.

    Texas has the most expensive, time-consuming, restrictive system out of all the shall-issue states. It is designed as a stumbling block to keep people from carrying.
    Yeah, the expense of getting a license is what keeps me from getting one. $140 for a license and average of $100 for the course is too much for this very low wage worker to handle. Every time I do have the money saved up something happens and I need to spend it on something else. $240 is too much for most people to do nowadays.
    So much for Texas being a freer state. Guess I'll cross it off the possibles list until the RKBA (without privilege taxes) is reestablished there.
    texas is way far gone. not even close.

    too many mexicans who bring their socialist values there. idaho, alaska... seem to be the two most free states in the union ATM

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    Yeah, I guess your right, $4.00 bucks a month to protect yourself, your family, home, property, and all the others who have decided for one reason or another not to defend themselves is just to much of a burden. Give up one happy meal a month and you can pay for your license. Think about it people, get your priorities straight. Until we get a better system we have to work within this one.

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    The license and training isn't the only expense. Don't forget the cost of the pistol. The lowest you can get a reliable brand of pistol would be at about $350-$400. You'd also need to buy a holster. I've read that printing is also considered unconcealed in Texas so you'd have to buy loose-fitting clothing if you don't have any.



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    Tex4OC wrote:
    Yeah, I guess your right, $4.00 bucks a month to protect yourself, your family, home, property, and all the others who have decided for one reason or another not to defend themselves is just to much of a burden. Give up one happy meal a month and you can pay for your license. Think about it people, get your priorities straight. Until we get a better system we have to work within this one.
    A NICS check costs about 3.00. That leaves a whole lot of room in that fee, for unnecessary bureaucratic overhead. Sounds to me like the price is deliberately inflated to reduce demand for permits.

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    Does Texas fingerprint too? Another overhead item that should be dropped, at least for renewalls, but really for the whole thing.

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    3fgburner wrote:
    Tex4OC wrote:
    Yeah, I guess your right, $4.00 bucks a month to protect yourself, your family, home, property, and all the others who have decided for one reason or another not to defend themselves is just to much of a burden. Give up one happy meal a month and you can pay for your license. Think about it people, get your priorities straight. Until we get a better system we have to work within this one.
    A NICS check costs about 3.00. That leaves a whole lot of room in that fee, for unnecessary bureaucratic overhead. Sounds to me like the price is deliberately inflated to reduce demand for permits.
    Do they charge for NICS checks in other states. Here in Michigan we just go in and ask for purchase permit. They give us one free. If we're a CPL holder we don't even have to go to LEO office for one.
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    Mike wrote:
    Does Texas fingerprint too? Another overhead item that should be dropped, at least for renewalls, but really for the whole thing.
    Yes, fingerprints and passport photos.

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    CrossFire wrote:
    Mike wrote:
    Does Texas fingerprint too? Another overhead item that should be dropped, at least for renewalls, but really for the whole thing.
    Yes, fingerprints and passport photos.
    Well, there you go - cost and time savings, drop prints and drop the passport photo - just require carriage of state or federal photo ID - that's how Virginia does it - most localities in Virginia and all of PA issue without fingerprints.

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    Well the CHL is only $140 for five years. The initial course is $95 to $125 depending on where you take it with renewal around $75 for the course. All in all I guess we are lucky to be able to conceal/carry at all in Texas.

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    Tex4OC wrote:
    Yeah, I guess your right, $4.00 bucks a month to protect yourself, your family, home, property, and all the others who have decided for one reason or another not to defend themselves is just to much of a burden. Give up one happy meal a month and you can pay for your license. Think about it people, get your priorities straight. Until we get a better system we have to work within this one.
    I agree

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    Why even worry about getting a Texas permit? Get one from somewhere else that's easier and cheaper to get.

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    Why even worry about getting a permit at all? Just carry openly and don't worry about it. The Constitution makes it very clear...."....Congress shall pass no law..."

    People in this forum are so upset about their state government taking away their right to "open carry" that they forget that the US Constitution trumps TX law.

    Come to Guadalupe County where I am a deputy constable. I promise you that I will not arrest you for open carry or any other type of carry. I know this because I swore to uphold the Constitution and the law of Texas; however, I chose to uphold the Constitution first and foremost.

    Bottom line: don't worry about permits or any of that other crap. Just carry openly, concealed, or any other way you want because that is what the Constitution allows. If you do anything else other than that you are not be true to what you honestly believe your rights really are.

    BTW...if any of those communists over in Tarrant or Travis Counties arrest you for open carry just tell them what I told you about in this post and they will let you go promptly.

    David

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    dlofton wrote:
    Come to Guadalupe County where I am a deputy constable. I promise you that I will not arrest you for open carry or any other type of carry. I know this because I swore to uphold the Constitution and the law of Texas; however, I chose to uphold the Constitution first and foremost.
    In my mind, your choice was the only morally and legally correct choice you could have made. Since the Constitution is the supreme law of the land, your sworn oath (and that of every other peace officer in the county) requires you to negate that which conflicts with it.

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